Need help on purchasing new machine

[stockbub]

I am a homebuilder, but adding tools to my personal shop. I love building cabinets and furniture. I build 8- 10 sets a year. Lots of arches, and ellipticals. My dad is currently helping me, but he is going on the missions field so it will mainly be me building the cabinets. I will be using it to cut out my boxes and drawers. I would also like to make some onlays. Rose designs, and other oak leafs. Is this just a pipe dream that I have. I know I will have to clean up onlays and other moldings. THe types of woods I use is 3/4" oak for face frames and 3/4" plywood for boxes. WIll this machcine cut 3/4" plywood? DO I need a spindle or router? (Noise does not bother me. I have other noisy things in the shop as well) Multiple routher? Vacumme table? All comments are welcomes. I would be making this decision in the next week or so. THanks for all the help.

[patricktoomey]

Martin,

I do pretty much all they types of work you're talking about. I cut all my cab parts out of 3/4 prefinished birch. I also cut all kinds of decorative onlays, columns, corbels, etc. If it's made out of wood (or Corian, or foam) I cut it with the ShopBot.

There is a learning curve and there will be software to consider as without the right software the Bot isn't going to do much but sit there and look pretty. The software that comes with it will allow you to do quite a bit but have a look at the following sites...

http://www.vectric.com
(2.5D design and cutting and 3D cutting - affordable and very good)

http://www.artcam.com
(2.5D and 3D design and cutting - Very expensive but top of the line)

http://www.kcdw.com
(cabinet design and cutting - I think ShopBot has package deals with this software)

As for spindles or routers, that's a hotly debated topic here. I use a 5hp spindle and wouldn't trade it for the world but others are very happy with routers. I would say start with a router and see what happens before investing thousands in a spindle.

I use 2 shopvacs and a ShopBot cut plenum board for a vacuum hold-down system and I've happy with it. Bigger pumps would be nice but cost some serious money. If you're working with a budget, I would spend the money on software and get a bigger vac system later.

You are not doing high enough volume in cabinets to need to worry about some of the other options like 2 Z axes or an air drill for shelf holes although you should look at them to see what's available. Call ShopBot, one of their people can walk you through the options. They are SUPER friendly and not pushy in the slightest, I've always liked dealing with them.

As for the type of machine, I have an older PRT with a 3rd party controller called the Ascension 1000 (http://www.custom-cnc.com) and I use Mach3 as the control software. This gives me higher resolution and smoother 3D cuts which require no sanding. ShopBot now has a higher resolution controller which should also offer smoother cuts, it's called the 4G controller, you may want to ask about that. If you're going to be doing a fair amount of 3D work and not a huge amount of sheet product cutting I would look at the PRT with a 4G controller rather than the Alpha but that's a matter of opinion and I'm sure you will get other opinions posted after this.

No matter which way you go, good luck and I look forward to seeing you on this forum asking questions. It's a great community here and you will find tons of help and support.

[brian_harnett]

The shopbot will do all of the things you list and more.
How are your computer skills? the more you know how to use CAD software will make the transition to cnc that much easier if not a healthy willingness to learn and patience is a plus.
The shopbot is a tool with many talents it is up to the operator to make them come out.

Take a look around the forum and you will see that the people on this forum are using there bots for all different purposes.
I bought mine thinking I would mainly do signs on it but now make 99% of my money on custom furniture.

I have a older PRT and am thinkig about the 4G controller I do a fair amount of inlays on some of the furniture I produce.
The shopbot is a fine machine and the forum here is great good luck.

[myxpykalix]

Martin,
Where are you located? Ask in the forum for any shopbotters local to you. Or shopbot has a list of guys willing to demo their unit to you. (They get a commission so don't feel like you're imposing) and most are willing to help after the fact. I happen to find out that a member of our local woodturning group who I knew, had a bot and he spent 6 hours with me! So they are out there and he and this forum are the main reasons i bought a shopbot. I looked at others and they didn't have the "network" built up of support this one does. I guarantee you will probably find someone within 25 miles of you with a bot.
As to recommendations for models mainly i'll leave that up to others more knowledgable however there has been talk of a new model out soon that may have far more capabilities and that might be something to inquire about. I have a 5x10 table with an indexer and I am interested in doing some of the things you mentioned (onlays) but i wanted to do things like a grapevine winding around a spiral column but i haven't done that yet. In talking to shopbot i didn't get the feeling i was being pushed into anything and bought what i wanted not what they wanted to sell me. And also if you are not going to buy in the next 60-90 days go look up when/where the next Camp Shopbot is going to be and make plans to go. Networking with others and finding out what they do and how they do it is incredibly invaluable.

[mgcain]

I'm kicking the tires on a shopbot as well, and I've done as jack suggested to see if I could find a shop to visit in CT or Western MA - its been disappointing so far - No responses whatsoever. I did find the forum and the web site to be amazing sources of information and I've downloaded the controller software to start learning how that works. Just wish I could find a bot owner within 25 miles of Northern CT that would spend some time with me...

[fleinbach]

Mitch,

Have you called Shopbot and asked for someone close to you? I'm sure they will gladley let you know if they have someone nearby.

[robert_cheal]

Mitch,

About 6 years ago I bought into the ShopBot dream with out seeing a demo. It was based largely on a fair entry level price and from reading the forum. I could see that others were doing similar projects as I had in mind and some were exceeding with projects beyond what any of us had in mind. I can't imagine that this forum would be active and thriving if the ShopBot was a poor value. I would continue searching the forumn and asking questions until you can see if investing in ShoBot would work for you. If I had a $100,000 to invest in a new machine I would still keep my old ShopBot busy on dedicated projects.

[thecustomsignshop]

Mitch, come down to Jersey.... I'll be more than happy to help you out.

When I purchased my first machine it was a little overwhelming, but now that I'm comfortable with it, I bought a second one...

I would not have purchased a second one if the first one did not cut it... So to speak.

I found that the design software is key. Make sure you purchase software that supports what you need to accomplish.

I really like my machines and they have more than paid for themselves.

[djmcnutt]

Martin,

I bought my ShopBot this past summer and so far it's been the best investment for my shop. I can do allot more in less time. You will have no problem cutting .75 plywood or solid wood. There is another ShopBot user from FL that has a cabinet shop and wrote his own software for cutting out panels and also sells the software very reasonable check out his web site http://www.cabinetpartspro.com/index.html another site for 3d renderings to check out would be http://www.vectorart3d.com/ they also have a free software package for creating your tool paths, which works very well. I see someone also mentioned Vectric which they have VCarve Pro which is very good for V carving. The only thing I would suggest is buy the HSC spindal the noise in null and the cost is not that bad. You can run the machine and talk to someone at the same time, I don't think you can do that with the router. Good luck

[richards]

The Shopbot is a tool. Like any other tool, it works best when the person using the tool knows how to use the tool. Before buying my Alpha, I had a shop full of good heavy-duty woodworking tools. Among them were a Delta Unisaw, a radial arm say, a bandsaw, a 15-inch planer, a 6-inch jointer, a 30-inch sander, a shaper, two lathes, etc. In short, I about everything necessay to do about anything that most woodworkers would be asked to do.

Since buying my Alpha, everything else is in storage except the bandsaw, a router table and an edgebander. If I had room, I would still have everything else in the shop, "just in case", but I haven't missed the other tools at all.

The only thing that I've "had" to do, to work out the kinks in my Alpha, was to add a 3:1 belt drive to each axis. Everything else I was able to buy directly from Shopbot - at very reasonable prices. Of course, the skill to learn how to use the machine didn't come as easily as I expected. Just like anything else, learning a new skill takes time.

Now that I'm this far along, I would recommend the Shopbot to anyone who is serious about woodworking. If he/she is clever, the Shopbot will greatly expand his/her abilities.

[myxpykalix]

AND ASK QUESTIONS!!! I have only been a member for 6 months or so and have already over 200 questions/posts under my belt. I know i might annoy some with all the questions but most every post gets several replies and usually all of them even if different helps in one way or another so don't be afraid to ask questions.
What i found when asking questions prior to getting my bot, it was the unknown factor..."how does this work, how does that operate" kind of stuff and much of that is answered when you get it in your hands.
Also by asking questions it lets us show everyone else how smart we are! good luck...

[paul60]

Hi patrick, what do you pay for 3/4 finish birch?
i am looking to import some from the USA
who can i contact on this
thanks paul

[mgcain]

Frank - I haven't called shopbot yet, but thats on the list of things to do...thanks!

Robert - agreed! I can't think of a reason any small shop would NOT have a shopbot.

Mike richards - You put your solid wood processing equipment (jointer, planer, etc. ) in storage, so are you saying you use the shopbot for solid wood prep? Is that faster or more accurate than using a jointer and planer to get the wood flat and square?

[mgcain]

Jim,
where in New Jersey are you located? I'm actually going to North Jersey this weekend for my Brother in law's 50th birthday...

[fleinbach]

Mitch,

I will answer your question about solid wood prep. If is far easier to make a twisted rough cut piece of wood flat, square and true with the shopbot then any previous method. In the past to true up a piece of wood that is twisted and winding you would need to first, get one surface flat and true. This could be done with hand planes or fastening it to a jig and trying to run it through band saws or a table saw. And these methods limited you too smaller pieces.

With the Shopbot all you need to do is support the twisted piece of wood solid on the table and the machine will do the rest.I would never go back to any of the previous methods again.

[mgcain]

Frank,
that's interesting - so if I have 100 bd ft of rough sawn 4/4 cherry for face frames, and I want to mill it down to 3/4 finished and square, and ripped to 2 inches, you would recommend the shopbot for that?

[waynelocke]

I love my Shopbot but come on. It is not the tool for the routine milling of rough lumber. For the occasional board it is probably fine but not for Mitch's 100 bf. — No! A John Henry race between a Shopbot and a jointer and planer would not be close. It is, however. great for large planks.

Just in terms of money, having the lumber milled at the yard makes the most sense.

Rantingly yours,
Wayne

[richards]

Mitch,
Since buying the Shopbot, I hardly ever use solid wood anymore (except for edging). When I do have a project that requires solid wood, I buy it sufaced two sides. Granted, it costs more that way, but the Shopbot is a production machine. Keeping it idle when there is work to be done is false economy. Occasionally I get the urge to get out the hand planes and 'create' a work of art. Usually when that happens, I'll look back on the day and realize that I've just wasted an entire day and the product is about as 'creative' as a piece of firewood. When you get to be my age, you'll find it foolish to waste too many days.

[fleinbach]

I suppose I should have clarified what I was trying to say. If you have good 4/4 stock, and by good, I mean, flat, without any serious winding or warped. A planer is the only way to go. But if you have rough sawn lumber that is bent or winding, you cannot flatten it by any other method faster than using the shopbot.

And of course, I was speaking of much thicker rough sawn material. Since as we all know, trying to flatten a warped board will reduce its thickness sometimes considerably.

[thecustomsignshop]

Mitch, we are in Flemington NJ. (Central) I will be in AC at the sign show on Saturday, but in the shop all day Sunday. Your welcome to stop in...

[patricktoomey]

Paul,

I pay about $42 for 3/4" (18mm) 2 sided prefinished chinese birch delivered from my local distributor in central Florida. It looks beautiful but internally it can be rough on cutters. I have had pretty good luck with it and it sure beats spraying cabinet interiors! I get it from McEwen Lumber which is a division of Hood Industries which serves primarily the south east. http://www.hoodindustries.com/
You said you wanted to import it from the US, what country are you in? This stuff all comes over here from China so it would be better to find a distributor near you that brings it directly from there I would think. I have used some US made prefinished ply which was nicer stuff but 50% - 75% more expensive which I can't justify.

[mgcain]

Jim,
Thanks for the invite, but we'll be back in CT Sunday early. Looks like between you and a couple other guys that emailed me offline I have my choice of 3 hour drives to see the bot in action. What do you cut primarily on your machine?

[paul60]

Thanks patrick. i live in barbados so not much chance finding a distributor here.
i have been using a pine ply from Brazil.
lots of sanding and not thebest finish.
the idear of pre finish sound great to me.
i own a prt standard with a 3.5hp milwaukie router
using cabinetpartspro for nesting
have you tried using the shopvac with a mdf for a vacuum board.
just wonder how good will it hold for cutting cabinet parts.
just using brads to hold my parts now. not the best.