Finishing MDF to look like wood? OR?

[myxpykalix]

Look at this pic. What i have done is carve the flag -.10 into the surface of this mdf. To the left is a lithopane and on top of the flag carving will sit a wooden carving of the marines logo. The flag carving is meant to be a subtle backdrop to the marines logo. I don't want to paint it red, white and blue as the effect i want to project is that the flag is a texture. My thought was to try to make it look like wood or just a solid color backdrop. Does anyone have advice on what type of paint/stain/gel/whatever I could use to try to achieve that effect? Be as detailed as possible since i know nothing about painting techniques at all. Do I need to be concerned about the cut parts of the mdf soaking up more material that the non cut parts? THANKS!

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[dray]

Yeah.. Paint it with a light mustard'ish yellow (which gives the background grain color). then after that dries rag on a darkish stain to suit. and topcoat with polyurethane or shellac.

Test on a spare piece of mdf you will get results like this:

http://www.drayconstruction.com/html/cab1.html

http://www.drayconstruction.com/html/cab2.html

[tommyr]

Danny,

Just wanted to inform that your links are not working and your website is not loading either, at least for me.

Tom

[cjohnson]

Danny,
Those wall mounted bookcases look impressive. Was that made with MDF?

cj

[dray]

yeah most of my stuff is MDF, it holds up wonderfully if painted/sealed correctly and not to mention the ease of milling

[dray]

Forgot to mention the lower half got doors but I got the pics and had to run to next job

[cjohnson]

I'm going to stop by Lowes on the way home and look for the light mustard type paint. I have some early American stain already. This should be interesting. Thanks Danny.

[myxpykalix]

Danny,
I went to your site and looked and almost can't believe thats mdf. It looks great. Now i know next to nothing about painting so i need to ask some elementary questions. To achieve something close to your results I need to get a mustard yellow color as its "base". Can i buy spray paint and use? Would it be a water based enamel? I let that dry how long before i apply a stain? What specific type stain should i get? Is there any special way i should apply the stain (wipe on let sit X min, wipe off)? The parts of the mdf that have been cut into that don't have the paper facing tend to soak up more paint/stain than other parts is there anything i should do to equalize the coating or should I just let it be what its gonna be? These may be no brainer questions for you, but I don't know so I appreciate your helping. Thanks!

[matt_r]

Here is a plaque I did out of MDF. The principle is the same as Danny's. 1st coat some yellow cermacoat craft paint ~ dries in about 20 minutes. Then I dry rubbed various shades of light brown and burnt umber (same Cermacoat). I also mixed some of the brown tones with a glaze product. It kind of thinned the paint, and increase my open time a bit, so I could work it in. After it was all dry, I put on some poly finish. I think I got the idea from a craft store book on faux finishes.

-matt

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[myxpykalix]

Ok I just got back from lowes and got nothing (but confusion) from them. They said i needed a latex enamel for the paint (mustard color) then I have to wait 30 DAYS (not 30 minutes) for it to cure before doing a gel stain. Idiots. I really don't want to make this a big project, just slap some paint and try to make it look close to a wood product. Any more advice would still be appreciated.

[tuck]

So Matt, where does one purchase this cermacoat craft paint that you speak of?

Beautiful plaque, BTW. Same to Danny Ray, gorgeous piece. Hard to believe that's MDF. This could lead to exciting possibilities for interior signage.

[myxpykalix]

Mark,
I just got back from "Michaels" craft store and they had the ceramacoat paint however here it is $5.99 for what looks like a coffeecup full. I didn't buy any...this is confusing

[dray]

yeah Jack, dont buy anything expensive. its all foo foo lol..

Just get cheap flat yellow. Latex will work but cheap flat is better. get a couple tiny bottles of tint ( a little goes a looong way) get burnt umber tint and maybe a little green and some brownish.. mix a little dixie cup of the yellow and put just a drop of burnt umber and try that. Hit it with some shellac after the paint is dry.

then just brush the stain on like u were painting it then wipe with a rag or rag the stain on and wipe off. Then after an hour or so hit with gloss shellac or polyurethane.

In my humble opinion the gel stuff is more trouble than its worth. I dont use any of the foo foo fancy stuff.

If you need any help just shoot me an email.

Danny Ray

[tuck]

Danny Ray,...you da man!

You say latex will work, but cheap flat is better. Cheap flat what? Latex? Alkyd? Enamel? Please elaborate.

[dray]

Heya Mark..
Well the alkyd is oil based and they use solvent to thin it (usually cheaper at my paint store) but you can also find cheap flat latex.

More imporntantly is the next step in semi sealing the yellowish paint with a satin shellac or thin poly coat because you want some of the stain to soak through but not too much.

it seems kinda complicated but if you look at in in steps its pretty simple..

The effect you want is like the plaque above its not a cheesy fake wood look but instead a faux. Looking at it you know its not wood but it has the same warmth and hand hewn look.

So the yellow is a base tha will be covered with 2 more thin coats top protect it.

So a basic run down lol

1. a base color (i use yellowish colors)
2. some type of a sealer to retard the stain from soaking deeply into the yellow
3. any color/type of stain you like ( i personally use burnt umber tint and linseed oil) but any stain is the same thing mixed up in a can for you.
4 your finish coat a high gloss or satin which protects all the coats before it.

With these variations you can get beautiful rich finishes.

I use the MDF not because its 1/3 of the price but instead because natural wood expands/contracts like a sponge and if you want a specific finish on natural wood it takes the same exact steps just different colors and all you get in the end is the same product but running your hand across it you will feel grain.

Its easy to get caught up in specific brands etc, but all polyurethanes are basically the same chemical compound one says it has this or that or the other that makes them the best, Ralph lauren makes $50 a gallon paint that has added silica sand for texture. silica sand costs around $20 for a 90 lb bag.

I dont try to do eerything on the cheap but I just dont buy into all the foo foo stuff they try to push on you to make themselves look like they are top of the line.

Give it a shot.. shouldnt cost more than $10-$15 at home depot or lowes, also keep in mind the guys in Lowes arent painters or they couldnt make it painting or they would be out doing it.

Go in ask for cheap flat yellow, cheap can of shellac or spray urethane and what ever type of top coat you want to finish it off with high gloss or satin.. It will be a beautiful, rich piece of art.

Im kind of excited to see the flag, where the flag is routered in the mdf is a bit rougher so it will take all of it a few shades darker which will really bring out the flag and make it a really cool artpiece.

Just be sure to test out a few different methods on some scrap.

Oh yeah kinda funny but very very slightly tinted reg diesel fuel makes a very very nice rich stain. Funny what you learn over the years heh.

If you guys get stuck Ill have some spare time on fri I can go out and grab specific cheap brands and walk through it with ya.. (got a huge mdf sign for my office im doing)



The simplest answers are the best in my opinion.

[myxpykalix]

Ok Danny, here is what i have gleaned from you so let me know if this is correct.
Firstly my experience in painting routed mdf tells me that portions that have the paper face won't soak up as much as carved portions. That is what i want. I want there to be a subtle difference to hilite for example the red stripe from the white stripe, or the stars from the field (see pic above).
1) So I was going to go get a mustard yellow flat latex enamel right?
2) I would coat the piece with an even coat allowing the unpapered portions of the mdf to soak up more of the coating thereby allowing it to dry and the unpapered portions would have a thinnner coat so that the coating is uneven.
3) How long to allow that coating to dry?
4)Then take a stain and coat the painted surface with the stain, how long do I allow it to soak in before wiping excess off?
5) I have cans of premixed stains from golden pecan to ebony. What shade would be best go toward a lighter or darker stain? I prefer to use that if it's ok as i have no experience in mixing tints and such and the morons down at lowes don't know either.

My assumption is that the base paint acts as a barrier for the stain to moreorless sit on the surface instead of soaking into the mdf while acting as a base color to blend with the stain to achieve the warmer wood tones am I on the right track? Thanks for the help! (back to bed, 9 am comes fast)

[myxpykalix]

OOPS forgot to ask can i use water based paint? And are these stains a water based stain or oil based? Can I use a water based stain? The gel stains i looked at were all oil based stains.
thanks

[myxpykalix]

Going back a REreading your instructions it looks like i missed a step between 3 & 4 of applying some type of sealer over the paint to retard the stain from soaking into the paint. What type of sealer do you recommend? (be specific, since i don't know what to use)

I promise, no more questions...(well at least for now). THANKS!!!

[dray]

hehe I dont mind at all actually when I pass on the little bit I know it makes me happy to help and also shoves the little knowledge I have a lil deeper into my head..

For the sealer I use a can of spray shellac on small things like signs and water based laquer on large furniture items.

Yeah by all means use water based paint. The stains I use are just linseed oil and tint.. SO Im unsure how water bases stain would work, just I have never tried it.

[ed_lang]

Danny,

I have never used tints before, which brands have you had good luck with. I have plenty of linseed oil but never thought about making a stain from it.

I am sure you use boiled and not raw! :-)

[myxpykalix]

ATTN: DANNY !! My experiment turned out blotchy, what did i do wrong?
1) painted mdf with mustard yellow water based paint. Let it dry for an hour or so.
2)Took water based spray shellac and sprayed over the paint and let that dry for at least an hour
3) got a water based "rosewood" stain and brushed that on. That seemed to dry within a few minutes to the touch. I tried in one spot to wipe excess off but it looked like i was taking it all the way down to the paint as opposed to just wiping off any excess.
Should i apply it differently than brushing it on? Should i wait longer between various coats?


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[dray]

Heya Jack.. its the stain I believe stain should be tested in small area to see how fast it starts to set into the shellac.

I think it is too porous or just letting stain stay on too long. Maybe too porous?

Try paint yellow then shellac, then sand w 400gr then another coat of shellac and sand again. Then try again.

If its bumpy that will happen too. You can also thin the stain to 1/2 or even 1/4 and do in coats if you still have problems with it.

I'll be on standby!!

=)

[myxpykalix]

So when i get to the staining part should i apply the stain and immediately wipe it off? How long should i let it sit before i wipe off?
how thick of coating should i use thin or thick?
How thick should my shellac coat be?

[dray]

heya Jack.

You should wipe it off almost immediately. But again that depends on how humid it is there, how rough the surface is etc.

Shellac 1-2 coats.

Just test it out before doing on final product.

It looks like the surface is rough.

[tuck]

Thank you, Danny Ray, for all of the great tips! I'm gonna make some sample interior signs to hang in the shop and show customers, v-carved with this finish. I already know it'll sell! Fantastic..... =)

[dray]

Glad to help!!
Ill post them as I make'em

We do a ton of different finishes and they are all really easy to do and make a great product

[beacon14]

Just test it out before doing on final product

The best advice I have ever read on a forum

[bleeth]

Jack: I got the effect Danny is speaking of years ago by spraying my parts with Rust-o-leum yellow and then using burnt umber oil paint in a tube as my wiping medium. I used the Rust-o-leum 'cause some of the parts were old metal straps (It was an antique steamer trunk). I've also done it with yellow paint base and oil based stain (like Minwax stains) as Danny. This is the same way the furniture guys "glaze" cabinets. I see you mentioned you used a water based stain-An oil based is slower to dry and gives you more working time. With the smoothness of the MDF surface I would probably brush on my base coats so I left brush ridges just to help the "grain" effect from the stain wipe. Your stain should be slow enough to dry so that you can work the smaller deeper cuts before anything drys on the surface. For your particular piece above brush your stain into the relief cuts, work it with a rag to wipe out excess, and then do the face. For a "country" look you can do a white, off white, or even a blue base and glaze with silver, gold, brown, or black, and wipe just about all of it off, and then carefully "speckle" it with a little stain on a toothbrush and a putty knife dragged across the bristles. You definitely need to practice on scrap to get your technique down.

[gene]

Danny
Was that your house on your website ? It looks fabulious!!!!!! It`s so good to see that level of craftsmanship in your work. Did you do the arched raised pannells in the doorways also? I wouldnt know where to start a project like that. I am going to try the finish on some mdf and see what type of results i can get . I guess its all in knowing what your`e doing. You are the MAN...

[dray]

yeah I did all of it. But not my house. customers homes.

My house and 2 others I have as rentals are constantly under remodel , as soon as I create something for a customer I refine it in one of my houses then tear it out a month later heh and do something new.

The arched wainscott passthru's are easy to make up and make a huge difference still keeping costs low.

I have gigs of pictures of different projects if anyone is looking for a specific type of finish I might just have a pic of it. When I did my website it took me 3 days and I got tired of adding pictures so it has not changed in over 6 years.

Im always glad to help when I can, it reinforces what little I know helping me relate a new project to a building technic ive done in the passed if that makes any sense lol

[myxpykalix]

Danny,
I finished the piece and while it didn't turn out exactly like your example, for a first try i think it looks pretty good. I am waiting for the glue to dry on the marine corp logo to the flag base, as soon as its dry i'll post some pictures over in virtual show and tell. Thanks

[dray]

Ive been having my painters do it for years now So I decided to see if I lost my touch..

Guess what.. I did, it came out kinda blotchy

9049

9050

[myxpykalix]

SHOWOFF !!!

lol. Real nice. I think part of my problem was the type of brush i was using to apply mine and the rag i was using to wipe the excess off. Next time you do something like that you should take some pictures of the various stages of work and post it with explainations. When wiping mine i noticed parts that were a little more sticky than others which made mine blotch and i thought that was due to the underlying coat maybe not being cured. very nice