New Shopbot advice

[hyrum_r]

Hello all,
I've been a long-time lurker around the forum, and have gathered so much information, I hardly know what to do with it all. ;)

Anyway, I'm considering getting a PRS Standard soon for my cabinet shop. I was fortunate enough to get a good deal on a Colombo 3hp spindle, so I figure that the newer PRS standard should be good enough coupled with the spindle to do what I want. Plus, I can always upgrade to an Alpha later. Does anyone here have much experience with the new PRS standard for cutting cabinet parts? I'll be cutting mostly 1/2" and 3/4" melamine with it, plus all the other cool things I can think up to cut once I have a 'bot in the shop.
I plan on using the Fein Turbo III for vacuum hold-down, as it seems to be working so well for so many people, and I don't have the money or power to run a large vacuum pump. As it is, we're getting pretty well maxed out on power in our shop. Every time the air compressor kicks on (7.5hp Ingersoll-Rand), it dims all the lights in the shop AND the house.

My main concern though is software. I'm like Danny Ray, I own KCDw , but I'm not paying the outrageous price for the CNC link. I've tried the demo of Cabinet Parts Pro, but I don't know what it is, but it just doesn't seem like it's got all the customization I need for the cabinets we do. Flexcabs looks cool, but I'm not paying $300 for something that doesn't have any sort of demo(haven't contacted the author of it yet, maybe he does offer one.) The thing is, we have a lot of different construction methods for different styles of cabinets, which may seem odd at first, but it REALLY makes assembly fly, and I'm not about to change them to match someone else's software. Soooo, I'm doing something crazy and writing my own. I just don't know if I have the patience to get it done, because I want to start cutting out jobs NOW! :D

So, I mainly just want to say hi to everyone, and I'm really excited about getting a CNC for the shop. I figure that since I've already gotten the spindle, I may as well get the CNC to put it on so it can't go to waste.

[thewoodcrafter]

Hyrum,
Do you have the drive for the spindle?
Is it single phase?
Software will be a problem without spending a fortune. I am holding out for Fiexcab. Right now I draw and tools path in Partwiz. This takes a lot of time.

[hyrum_r]

Yes, I have the drive with the spindle and it is single phase. I got it from Alan at Custom-cnc, the guy who sells the Ascension controller, so I trust it should work. He said, and it looks, brand new.

So far, I'm making good headway on my software. I believe I can make it work, as software programming is nothing new to me. Plus, I enjoy a good challenge.

[wardsa]

Hyrum,
I'm in the same boat as you. I own a PRT Alpha, that I just bought used. Software is my main concern. Like you I have KCDW that I do all my designing in and I use Cutlist Plus to optimize my cutlist. Right now to optimize my panels for cutting I only have to use about 2% of my brain just to confirm everything looks correct, and the computer does the rest. Using PW or any other of the under $500. softwares, seems like a step backwards. I had to scrap my nickels together to buy this used machine, now to spend 60% of what I spent on the machine to buy software just kills me......but I may have to. I guess just like the Bot, the software is an investment. I just hope I can find an alternative before I pull the trigger for KCDW. I still have not heard about anyone that IS using KCDW with the Bot, and how it is working for them. Good luck.
Terry

[mrgadget]

Hello all,

I am in the same boat as some of you other guys. I also am getting ready to purchase a PRS standard for my shop, but the only thing that's holding me back or is just plain puzzling is the software to go along with the bot to do cabinets. Unfortunately, or fortunately, however way you look at it I don't own KCDW, and I also can't bring myself to pay that much for software, yet either. Flexcabs looks VERY promising and I hope it is released soon. I don't mind paying the $300, but I need something such as feedback from the beta testers or some word from the programmer as to the status of the program or something before I plop my money down. Hyrum, if you need a beta tester for the software you're writing I'm volunteering!
I use ecabs, but the only drawback using that is the multiple steps required to get it to the machine and cut. I'll probably just use what I've been using and work it out from there.
Jay W

[hyrum_r]

There's probably lots of us hung up on the software side of things. I wouldn't mind paying $300 or even up to $1500 or maybe even more for some software that I KNOW would do EXACTLY what I need it to. However, I haven't found any yet. Even KCDw doesn't do things exactly how I like, and I haven't as of yet even got the cutlists perfected. For the cabinet designer, I say KCDw can't easily be beat. I tried to get myself to learn ecabs for designing, but I just couldn't do it for some reason. The KCDw designer was like a breeze for me.

I'm just concerned that if I can't easily get proper cutlists out of it, I'm going to have a harder time getting proper CNC nests/toolpaths from it. I'm not about to pay upwards of $15k just for a massive headache!

Right now, I'm still using an old Visual Basic program my father wrote back in the early 90's for doing his cutlists. It's old and clunky, but it's programmed to exactly the way our shop builds cabinets. It's still faster to input all my cabinets into it to get my cutlists than it is to get KCDw to create cutlists the way I want them.

[dray]

KCDw is a ripoff. Buy the design or demo version to draw your cabinets, then use cabinet parts pro along with a hand made parts library.

The Shopbot crew is usually not much help either. They sell a good product but all I ever get from them is smart a$$ comments.

If you need help getting started on your cabinetry gimme a holler, I can show you what I use.

[mrgadget]

Thanks Danny, I'll probably giving you a ring in the very near future... One of my main concerns is blind dado settings. I want to implement this when I get my shopbot for ease of assembly and I just can't afford to buy a case clamp at the moment along with all of this other equipment I'll be purchasing shortly. Does any of you know whether cabinet parts pro supports blind dados? I looked on their website, but all it says on the features page is yes to dados. I emailed them today, but haven't heard back yet, just thought one of you guys may know.

[hines]

Jay, if you have questions about Cabinet Parts Pro you can ask Ryan Patterson who created it. He now works at shopbot and should be reachable via Shopbot's support number.

[mrgadget]

Talked to Ryan today, and he says it will be implemented in a few months for anyone who is interested. Another question....do I need software that will output shopbot proprietary code, or will a shopbot run g-code natively? To design any kind of cabinet or fixture it seems that the possibilities are VERY limited when it comes to interfacing with the Shopbot. Just trying to get my ducks in a row before committing the money to anything.

[thewoodcrafter]

Jay,
When I first bought Cabinet Parts Pro last November I was shocked to see it DID NOT support dado construction. I called Ryan about it and got the same fish story you did. "Give me a couple of months, Dec or Jan. and it will have it". Well here is July and that sounds like the same story. I have never been able to use the software, it is worthless to me. $250 shot down the drain. As Danny says "Rip Off".

I am still hoping to get a good working version of Flexicabs (now Infinicabs) from Patrick Toomey. He has been working on this since March with 15 beta versions out now. When completed this should be the perfect software solution for cabinet makers.
It is supposed to take output lists from other software ( e-cabs, KCDW, etc.) and generate ShopBot code directly from a library of parts.
And the library will be user configurable for odd ball stuff. If it all comes together it will be easily worth 3 - 4 times what he is asking for it.

[mrgadget]

You know, this seems (at least to me) to be the weak link for the shopbot. I am referring to building cabinets and store fixtures and for commercial cabinetry applications. If anyone is using their shopbot to do these everyday, please, please chime in. I need to purchase a bot (or something) soon. I know the shopbot is an awesome machine, but if you don't have the software to utilize the machine to its full potential to achieve the end result you are striving for, then it is worthless. As of right now, I would probably be better served going and buying a slider, but I know I could use the bot right now, and more importantly in the future for other endeavors, if I could get the correct software/hardware combination for my current anticipated usage without being ripped a new one in the wallet!

[wardsa]

Roger,
Was it only the dado part that makes CPP worthless? I don't do dados with my current methods. How about the rest of the program? I was going to buy it today, but I can't even get the free version to work. It will only let me design wall cabinets. When I try base or any other I get a pop-up that says it's only avalible in the pro version. I tried downloading it twice and get the same thing. I'm not going to buy something when the free demo doesn't work!!! As far as Flexicabs, when the release was first announced, I was very interested. I even talked to Patrick about it working with KCDw, but now it's like he fell of the face of the earth. Come on man give an update!! How freaking hard is it to type a short post letting everyone know whats going on!! I think he's got alot of potential buyers sitting on the edge of their seat ( me included) that are going to get a bad taste in their mouth. Most of us can't afford to buy 3,4 or 5 different softwares, so we've been waiting for this one. The wait is not the worst part, it's the not knowing if it's going to be a week, month or a year. If you told your customer their cabinets would be done in May, would you have contacted them by now to tell them why they weren't done. I will be one of the first to buy a copy when I see whats going on, but for now, I've already thrown enough money into the software " Black Hole". I just want to run my ShopBot and I don't want to buy software I can't use.
Terry

[thewoodcrafter]

Terry,
From what I remember the pro version will do base cabinets. Besides no dados you need to nest manually if you use different material in the same cabinet.
Melamine and 2 sided material. I couldn't use it the way we build cabinets.

Patrick has a web site set up for beta testers that paid back in March. But the communication has not been good.
The latest beta version 1.15 does generate code at this point. Not useful yet but code. It has been long coming and seems to be getting closer to working software. I bought in so I am waiting to see what comes out before I do anything else. For now I use Partwiz to drawer parts and generate code. Very time consuming for a full kitchen.

[hyrum_r]

Terry,
I had the same problem as you. Nearly everything I try in Cabinet Parts Pro tells me I need the full version. I don't mean to offend anyone, but a lot of these software programs like this look very amateurishly written, at least in the interface part of it. I don't even want to comment on some of the websites I've seen trying to promote even some of the multi-thousand $ cabinet programs.

Flexcabs looks so good(and even has a good looking website!), but I believe that Patrick has undertaken a VERY massive project for one guy.

Oh well, back to Delphi and my own cabinet software unless I hear of something that will actually work for me at a reasonable price.