How Would You Cut & Paint This Sucker?

[tuck]

The other day a dentist contacted me and wanted this emblem carved 2.5D (routed down background, raised graphics.) He wanted it about 24" squared:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f332/Superfan52/dentistry.jpg

This ain't the first time I've run into this emblem. As you see, the triangle intertwines with the circle and the entire design is rather detailed and complex. Last year I did a job for a local dentist that wanted it on his 4x7 d/f routed sign that I made for him, but by the time I had all of the info that he wanted on the design, there was no good place to put it and I said *whew*!

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f332/Superfan52/Sign2.jpg

That's my lady posing with the sign. :-)

I envision the emblem best done in full blown 3D (which I don't do because it would take forever to cut on my 14 year old machine and I don't have a demand for 3D work), but even then I think I see a problem with the intertwining triangle and circle. Maybe I'm looking at it wrong and over-thinking it? Here's a B&W version:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f332/Superfan52/dentalBW.jpg

At any rate, all dentists LOVE this emblem and would pay big bucks for a carved and perhaps personalized version for their waiting rooms or whatever. (Personally, the snake gives me the creeps!) The fella that contacted me wanted several of them to start with to give as gifts to his dentist friends and I had to say: "I'm sorry, dude, but I don't think I can pull it off and it look really good."

So, if given this job to rout and paint, how would YOU pull it off?

[dlcw]

Mark,

Have you contacted James at VA3D to see what he would charge to do this for you? There is another gentleman who does great work as well, Charles Knopp. I can give you his contact info offline if you send me an email.

[tuck]

Mark,

Have you contacted James at VA3D to see what he would charge to do this for you? There is another gentleman who does great work as well, Charles Knopp. I can give you his contact info offline if you send me an email.

Thanks Don, but no, I haven't. I've already turned the job down and that's no huge deal (?), but the problems with the intricacy of the design has my curiosity up. I'm not really interested in outsourcing the work as I'm pretty sure that would be very expensive. I am more interested in how to solve the problems indicated by doing it myself with a little help from my friends in here.

This is a tough one in my mind. Like I said, I don't do 3D work, although my old machine is capable. It might take 2 days to cut it and that's ok, but what's it gonna look like? How is that triangle gonna merge with the circle? (Over and under). How is the snake and staff it's wrapped around gonna work? If you think 3D, there are many dimensions and planes involved the way I see it.

I have seen some amazing 3D work by Shopbotters through the years. This could be an interesting thread because if you can learn to cut and paint this particular problem, you should be able to do most anything with your machine and talents, not to mention that there is a possible HUGE market for the product nationwide.

[dlcw]

Here is an over-under type of project I did. It uses a model from VA3D for the rings and I just added the text to it.

Yours does pose some interesting challenges though. I might work on it when I get time from the current crunch I'm under.

[myxpykalix]

Mark,
I think if you look at some examples of celtic designs alot of that deals with over/under/intertwinded designs. Start thinking in terms of basketweave type designs. Look at some of the medical designs that VA3D has.
Did you say what program you use for design? That will have a bearing on what you can produce.

[robtown]

Hey Tuck,
Contact me off list. I have a dentist client/friend who this would be perfect for.

I have some HDU laying around and a friend in my complex who does luminore as well.... (and I got mad 3d modelling skillz)

[GlenP]

Hey Mark can you email me off the forum as well. glenp1@sympatico.ca (glen@sympatico.ca) :)

[tuck]

Guys, I appreciate the feedback and offers of assistance. I went ahead and contacted VA3D with a pic and a quote request. I requested that the 3D file be an open source so that all can use it. That emblem is to dentist what the globe and anchor is to the Marine Corp.

They should get back to me in a day or two. Let's see what they say.....

[chiloquinruss]

If I understand what you are looking for - no 3d - I would place a vinyl mask over the whole piece, do my recessed area, then out line all the pieces with 1/16th ball nose. Give the carved area a good spray. Lastly peel and paint the detail parts (hand paint). Anyhow that's how I have done some 'flat' detailed signs. Russ

[tuck]

If I understand what you are looking for - no 3d - I would place a vinyl mask over the whole piece, do my recessed area, then out line all the pieces with 1/16th ball nose. Give the carved area a good spray. Lastly peel and paint the detail parts (hand paint). Anyhow that's how I have done some 'flat' detailed signs. Russ

Yeah Russ, 2.5D was the original idea and I understand better now how that could work, thank you and all.

But full blown 3D would be exceptional and there is nobody, I ,mean NOBODY, doing it. Believe me, I searched the web to exhaustion. You can purchase little metal medallions of the emblem and find it on coffee cups and t-shits, but that's about it. The dentist that contacted me recently was very frustrated.

Most all dentist would eat it up, IMO. They would pay top dollar to have this hanging behind the receptionist desk or out in the waiting room, beautifully carved, personalized and finished. How many dentist are there in the USA? Hundreds of thousands if not a million or more, I'm sure.

To Rob Williams: I have to admit that I didn't know what luminore was. That's some great stuff! BEAUTIFUL! Sculpt Nouveau could work well too. The possibilities are truly endless.

My point is this: These are hard times for some of us. The economy sucks. What used to float my way ain't there much anymore, so lately I've been thinking that if the mountain won't come to Mohamed, Mohamed gonna have to go to the mountain. What I mean by that is to target a market that still has money and spends it freely. Sometimes ya gotta dig.

[jamesb]

Good idea and thanks for the heads up from those who emailed me about it. We will look to do something with this ASAP, I will post when we have something available.
Regards,
James

[jamesb]

We have created a model of this which is available on the site for $25:
http://www.vectorart3d.com/store/index.cfm?Fuseaction=Detail&ID=57225

As an odd coincidence I have to go to the dentist now so will post tomorrow with some vectors that can be used to v-carve the text into this and some previews of the file.

Cheers,
James

[cabnet636]

thank you!!

jim

[tuck]

How AWESOME is THAT?!? You are the man, James!!! THANK YOU!!!

Now I'm gonna finally have to learn 3D!:cool:

[jamesb]

As a follow up - attached is a zip file which has the vector outlines for each style with the lettering in position - this could be used to machine the text into the finished 3D part. Also below is an image of the file showing the toolpath preview at 10 inches high, 0.375" deep (0.5" material) cut with a 1/8 ballnose - 10% stepover. Hope this additional info helps.

Regards,
James

[cabnet636]

i was bidding a dentist office for the medical casework and front desk,, client has been picky and the competition was fierce!! i purchased this file made a jpeg of the file with the dentist name on it and told the client i would throw in the sign for an awarded job.

signed contract in less than three hour later!!

thanks james

[tuck]

i was bidding a dentist office for the medical casework and front desk,, client has been picky and the competition was fierce!! i purchased this file made a jpeg of the file with the dentist name on it and told the client i would throw in the sign for an awarded job.

signed contract in less than three hour later!!



I told y'all all dentist love this emblem, Jim! That's great!:)

[dakers]

here is one we did about 9 years ago. paladium and gold leaf on hdu.
the multi color on the logo looks good

[joe]

Mark,

I'd suggest you consider some 3D work. Your old SB will work fine. You DO NOT need much more than you have right now. I used a woobblleee old PRT to do 3D files with. It's amazing what you can do.

I've done dozens of these dental signs with 2.5 D but it's helpful to get back to painting. That's one skill I can't do without.

Here's an old referb for a dentists sign which was 18 years old.

[tuck]

Mark,
I'd suggest you consider some 3D work. Your old SB will work fine. You DO NOT need much more than you have right now. I used a woobblleee old PRT to do 3D files with. It's amazing what you can do.


I'm definitely gonna give it a shot, Joe. It's past time I learned it and even if it takes my old machine a long time to cut 3D, that's better than the thing sitting there idle. I actually purchased the bits years ago, but that's as far as it went then.

I envision these dentistry plaques finished in Sculpt Nouveau, which I think would look outstanding if done right and should be pretty easy to do. I envision taking about a 24" x 24" sample to all of the dozens and dozens of local dentist and saying; "I'm making the plaques in my shop. I can personalize one for you if you'd like. Would you like to place an order today?"

I envision myself making lots of $$$!:)

[joe]

Mark,

Running a 3D file on your machine probably won't be much longer than a brand new one. It's much like the difference between lettering a 2" Helvetica letter and a fancy script. The fancy script is a breeze while the strict margins of the block letter is much more challenging. So it is with 3D carving of signs. You'll do fine.

One suggestion: Start off small. 12" is a good size for these models.

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

[joe]

I've been pushing Sculpt Nouveau on this forum for a long time. This is a classic opportunity to put it into action. Anyone using a router to cut out letters should consider SN. It's easy, cheap, and lasts for years. There's some good money with this kind of work.

[tuck]

I've been pushing Sculpt Nouveau on this forum for a long time. This is a classic opportunity to put it into action. Anyone using a router to cut out letters should consider SN. It's easy, cheap, and lasts for years. There's some good money with this kind of work.

I doubt if I ever would have heard of SN if not for you, Joe, and I can't wait to try it out!

Roger that on starting out small with the 3D models.;)

[joe]

Mark,

I'd be glad to give you suggestions on getting started with SN. There are lots of products to mull over.

Perhaps you could mail me direct. jcrumley1@cox.net.

Joe

[mick40]

What would you charge for this sign?

Mick

[dvmike]

VA3D just gave me a quote for doing a rediculous 3 layer banner with priszmatic letters for $118 !
I couldn't beleive it!
The letters on this sign aren't a font at all and are part of a franchise logo ,so it has to be exact !
This sign may not sound like much via my description, but it is WICKED!
All said and done , the cost of using VA3D is only about 6% off the profit for this sign ,and making my life and time much more managable ! I hope these guys are in buisness for ever !

[tuck]

Mark,

I'd be glad to give you suggestions on getting started with SN. There are lots of products to mull over.

Perhaps you could mail me direct. jcrumley1@cox.net.

Joe

Thanks, Joe. I'll do that soon!:)

[Big-Tex]

Does any one have this in vector format dxf dwg ai eps or high res jpeg (black and white)

[coach]

http://www.vectorart3d.com/store/index.cfm?q=apr10

I think that's it.

[joe]

Sometimes we get so engaged in the technical end of building a sign we forget to pay close enough attention to Design.

For example: When designing a joint identification sign, like the one posted, it's prudent to make it up-dateable. I strongly advise my clients to consider phone #s and name panels changeable and removeable.. Phone numbers are best left off the sign completely. I make them as a separate piece below the sign. Phone #s are more easily read as separate pieces.


Doctors, Lawyers, Accountants, ets move around too often to make them a permanent part of the sign.. Individual name panels can be made into a decorative elements which simplifies and strengthens the sign. I almost always make an extra panel or two for the client to keep in their closet for this purpose. I like DiBond for this use.


The Caduceus is such a beautiful logo it almost make a poorly designed sign look good. I like making them look like a piece of jewelry. Not too big.


During the initial interview with a client, if I find out they want too much copy on their sign, I address this as an issue. The best way to get them back on track is to show examples of other signs. There
s nothing wrong with building a “Wish Book”. I did that for years. I clipped out photo's from magazine . If you can't convince them to reduce the amount of copy, it's best to put it in a panel, there by not conflicting with the sign title.


I've turned down sign work which would reflect poorly on my business. That seldom happens but it's a shocker to the client, but it does command respect.