sad news

[hh_woodworking]

As with private business sector schools are also suffering in severe budget cuts. Our school district is facing a loss of revenue of approximately $500,000 in the next 2 years. We are a small district about 805 kids k-12. I have been very proud of the program that I have built. Our school board vote to close down the program and save the sports programs. Needless to say at the end of this school year I will also be looking for work. They will be idling about $100,000 in equipment.:mad: Included in the equipment is a shopbot, laser engraver and plasma cam. We have a full machine shop,( vertical mill, lathe and surface grinder). Welding shop- mig,tig and stick welding and plasma cutter. and wood shop full of stuff. Not sure how they justified the way the cuts were made. Also being cut were one middle school math teacher,one middle school english teacher and a librarian.

Ed

[gene]

Is there any way to come up with a plan that could allow the shop to be kept going if it were a " for profit" type of class? There may be some buisnesses that would agree to purchase services from the class? , or even products made by the students. :cool: Last resort is for the students to pay a small fee for the class. Good luck

[erik_f]

At first I was going to sarcasticly reply that it would make sense to cut "shop" for sports since it is way more likely on of these kids play in the nfl or nba then get a job as a machine operator. ...then I started to think the way we are exporting jobs it may actually be true.

[kelly]

I am sorry to hear about the cuts. Not only for you losing your job but for all the kids who will miss out on real life changing education. It is a shame they can't see the value of what you have been teaching and the skills the kids walked away with.

All the best.
K.Z.

[zeykr]

I've been to your shop and you have a very nice program. It's something that has been missing from many of the larger schools in the area to the detriment of the students. Think schools are making a mistake not growing these programs instead of cutting them. Keep in touch and let me know if I can be of any help.

[gene]

Its fairly easy to train a machine operator, Not as easy to inspire a woodworker or cabinet maker or future biusness owner

[signtist]

What is this world coming to?. . . . . .they will keep the sports!!!!
So the kids can still play games!!!!! How sick is that!

[hh_woodworking]

Thanks for the comments. I went into teaching at a later age with idea of helping to be a positive influence on kids. I hate more than anything the loss for the students! I have had many return and tell me what a benefit that my class has had in there life. From getting and keeping jobs or having some skills to repair things around their house. This always makes me smile. Teaching was a calling to me, pay in this area is not great but I knew that when I started. I will be OK I always seem to land on my feet and things normally are better for me than before:).

Gene I would love to turn the program into a profit project, but earlier this year I approached the superintendent about an class manufacturing a project doing everything A business would do from start to finish. Design, marketing, and sales, including tacking profit/loss, ordering material and stock options. The School Lawyer Nix the plan. Stating that the school could not build and sale items for a profit.:confused: Not sure why when we sale stuff from sales brochures all the time for a profit. I argued but to no avail.

[bcondon]

Here is my concern with what you are saying:

-Not every young mind will go to college, in fact I don't recommend college for most people these days because of the brain drain sent overseas.

We rarely need mechanical engineers and few new engineers will find jobs.
We rarely need electrical engineers because we export those jobs too..
Software is ramping down in this country because Chinese, Indian, Philipeano are doing those jobs for 40% of American labor cost.

The price of the education exceeds it's value today.
There are few college based professions that are worth it. Medicine will be taken over soon for scrtch that one off the list too...


If I were a young mind, I would look for jobs that will give me a lifetime of opportunity such as the trades (Electrician, Plumber, sewer pumping, civil engineering, industrial engineering (ie process control and improvement), machining, small engine repair)

The reason I say all of this is that none of this can be done from afar.

Machining is interesting because you can not get anything made in the US because the machine shops have gone out. My Dad had a small shop in the basement when he was forced to retire at the age of 64 and worked at it until a few months before he died at 78. He worked for small places like NASA, Inidanapolis 500 car association, large medical equipment firms because everyone laid off their machinist and now there are none.

None of the jobs are glorious and I think the jobs in US just declined and will never be as good as this generation... the good jobs are heading overseas thanks to our leadership in this country and the all mighty short-term profit.

My suggestion... get a trade... work hard... get to be the owner (be smarter than the rest) and go make a killing... there is nothing like the smell of a backed up toilet on Easter ... it smells like money.

High Schools should prepare students (the bright, the not so bright) for a lifetime of work and forget how many people they get into Harvard, Princeton...because students will be the next lower class...

Sigh...

[tappsman]

I think that one of the greatest failures of our educational system is the elimination of shop classes. School administrators seem to think that the only purpose of a high school is to prepare a student for college when the fact is many students don't have a desire to go to college. In my opinion this is a major factor in the unacceptable drop out rate that many school districts are experiencing. When these students feel that what they are being taught is not relevant to them, they leave school. I don't think that this will improve until the school administrators realize that their job is to prepare the students for life whether college is in the future or not.

When I went to high school, which was more years ago than I like to admit, the classes that I learned the most from, and the only ones that had a long term effect on my life, were the two years of shop class. When I was in college I regretted not taking more math classes but I would not have traded the shop classes for more math.

Ed, I don't know where you are located or if you have a community college in your area but if you do, it may be possible to get the school district to team with the community college to offer shop classes to adults in the area. I would love to have that kind of a resource in my area and it would most likely be a very popular program.

[erik_f]

The point wasn't how easy or hard it is to teach someone how to run machinery. The point was there are no f-in' jobs. The point was it is unbelievable that we have to cut anything in our country. The government is milking everyone dry with waste and protecting everyone and everything besides its own people. Red or Blue they all need to be ousted.

[hh_woodworking]

Up until the last few years the school board was very proactive in keeping the hands on classes active and felt they were necessary for most of our students as they will not go on to college. As with all schools the make up of the board has changed and this is no longer an area of interest to them. I know of at least 2-3 students that have told me that the only reason that they are at school is to come to my classes! They do not plan on returning to school next year.:mad: I am in a very rural area in southwest Missouri close to the Arkansas line.

I have worked with the community college before teaching adult classes in the past. I can no longer teach them because they now require a master degree to teach at there college ( plus the pay was worst than what I was getting teaching high school) go figure need more education for less money?

Bob your are right any one who can fix things will be a wealthy man or woman, more and more people have no clue on what on anything. I have one hard working high school student that is in school only cause his dad said he will be here. Right now he is making more than most of the teachers here at school. Working a business that most people would not even think about doing. he made $40,000 this last year. His core area teacher don't think he will ever make it on his own( if only they knew). He cleans out chicken houses he does work long hours for himself, it is business. He own all the equipment that is used about 80,000 dollars worth.

[gene]

The reason i have a shop today was because of my shop class . If i didnt have it then , who knows i might be a lawyer telling you that you cant do that! There is something definately wrong with our system. We pay more for entertainment than for education, I believe that a long time ago there was a culture that did nothing for themselves , they had others to do it for them , too bad they are not around any more or i could ask how that turned out.

[gene]

Eric,
Do as i have done . I got some bumper stickers printed that say




STOP REPEAT OFFENDERS
DO NOT RE-ELECT

[rcnewcomb]

Offer the school board $5000 to take all that idle equipment off their hands.

[cabnet636]

i agree with gene "NO incumbents" vote for all new people of the party of your choice!! if they spend a lot of money on a campaign then there is another red flag!!

jim

[michael_schwartz]

lets see, for the price of a philosophy degree which wouldn't even qualify you to bag groceries you could pretty much put together a dream shop, + a shopbot and still have money left over to start a buisness. I think the smart choice is clear :D

That is just sickening they would put sports programs ahead of a shop program that would give students skills that would give them a fighting chance in this economy. I would suggest getting a petition going, or try to get a senator or congressman involved and see if you can still fight to save the program. I guess if not you could always offer then scrap price for the equipment.

[fredtoo]

The school I attended in the 50s-60s had approx 250 students K-12. At that time there was one (1) principal and two admin folks with a part timer now and then. That same school today has approx 225 students K-12, a school superintendent, a grade school principal and a high school principal. They recently built a new gymnasium with the justification being: 1-most of the money was a federal grant (so it wasn't their money!) and 2-the old gymnasium could be used for the admin folks who were over crowded. And yes, there's talk there of laying off teachers but no talk of getting rid of the government bureaucracy and bloat that comes along with it.

Not to make this a political soap box but when this November comes around, if they're in - they're OUT!

[bcondon]

a few things I have seen is interesting to me.

When I was younger, one of the high school acquaintance's parent gave him $100,000 for his education. He could go to college -or- invest in his future so he bought a hardware store... and is doing just fine...

A Friend of my Mom (in High School, circa 1945) was dirt poor. Had one outfit for school. Bernie worked hard, became an electrician and worked with a fellow who taught him the business side of the trade. He crashed his plane (mechanical failure during takeoff) when he was in his late 50s,
and was a multi-millionaire...

One of my son's friends is about to graduate from college. His parents gave him a single sum of money when he graduated from college and said that this was his college and living fund. He went to an out-of-state state school, is working very hard in his profession (landscape design and implementation), living very frugally (CHEAP) and learning about life. WOW is he doing well and will graduate next year!


Locally, they tried to set up a machine co-op where they acquired 100K in equipment and everyone paid into it ot use the equipment MOn-Sat with extended evening and Saturday hours. After a year it failed because there were not enough folks with the skills to use the equipment.

[gene]

I dont have any children , but if i did i would make them be a lawyer so when they misused a power tool they could sue the manafacturer:)

[myxpykalix]

When i was in school I took both machine shop and wood shop. After high school I went to a technical education school for auto repair and after that I paid $100.00 to take a class with a local modular home building company for a summer.

By 21 I owned two used car lots and by 25 I had a chain of video stores in the 70's (3 !!). Skipping thru the years I worked on movies and television, I have real estate equity worth over 1 million and live off that income.

That was not mentioned to boast but to acknowledge the building blocks I was taught in a technical education setting on how to use my hands and brain to get ahead.

I deal with college students as renters and I have never met a dumber bunch of people with a "higher education".

Not everyone is suited to go to college. I wasn't. But i was taught (or had) common sense. I have always believed that if you are taught to work with your hands you can go anywhere in this country and get a job. And you can always look for something better but you need to have those building blocks.
They need to get back to teaching technical education and physical education in schools, thats why the kids are getting too fat....

I would do like Randall suggests and offer to buy the equipment at pennies on the dollar.

[rb99]

I am very sorry to see the program shutting down. i am not saying they made the right decision, but I think sports is important. Not to create kids that make money as athletes, but well rounded young adults. Years later when they are stuck running some noisy machine for 10 hours a day they can dream about the fun they had participating in school sports...

RIB

[meatbal80]

[QUOTE=tappsman;94675]I think that one of the greatest failures of our educational system is the elimination of shop classes. School administrators seem to think that the only purpose of a high school is to prepare a student for college when the fact is many students don't have a desire to go to college. In my opinion this is a major factor in the unacceptable drop out rate that many school districts are experiencing. When these students feel that what they are being taught is not relevant to them, they leave school. I don't think that this will improve until the school administrators realize that their job is to prepare the students for life whether college is in the future or not.
QUOTE]
I happen to be one of those drop outs. Unfortunatly i did not have shop in middle or high school, if i had i may have found my current profession a few years earlier. Before i left school at 16 i talked with my father (a man with 5 post highschool degrees) and we came up with a plan. I would leave high school and take classes at a community college instead. Well i tried it but between the long term cost and the lack of desire that stopped after 2 years with out any sort of degree. After a few years of working jobs from food service to body peircing i got into the trades (flooring) and have been there ever since.

My father is of the thought that the best way to get ahead is by education. I have alot of respect for the old man but i came to my own conclusions. To get some jobs today you need a AA or BA/BS for somthing nobody would have dreamed about college for, when he was finishing highschool (1952). The cost of that degree is stagering here are a few examples from people i know.

A friend went to a technical college to be an IT pro. The schooling cost about 50k and took 2 years. He was in the top 5% of his class and when he was done he could not get a job for much more than $12-14 per hour, not even a salary job. Ironically he was in the trades while going to school and still is, he happens to be the guy that got me into flooring.
Another friend is going to become a MD, at this point she is getting close to deciding her specialty and is very torn. She would like to specialize in one field but to pay off the stagering loans (something like $250k when she is finally done) she will probably have to get into a specialty with higher pay. Even then she will probably be paying that "house payment" off when i own my house flat out.
Another friend spent about $50k, graduated and again couldn't find a job that payed better than his job he worked to get through school. He is still driving a delivery truck for FedEx 4-5 years later.
Are education system seems to be broken and nothing seems to be done to fix it. They cut more and more non-core classes ie music, shop, art excetera and still the standards are falling and the over all education students are recieving is worth less. If we as a nation who imports as much as we do, dont change that and create an asset in our children we will at some point loose our position as the leading economical world power.

[rej]

what a joke. sports are for a few kids out of the whole student body. and when billy graduates from school, then what? most kids get no college scholarships, and some that do don't finish college. then even less, way less, go pro. and many , many, pros end up broke.
what i learned in wood shop in school has been with me for 40 years.

america once had the luxuory of sports in schools. that day is over.
in this economy, we better get our priorities in order. i hired a kid last summer that didn't know an allen wrench from a cresent wrench.
if i told him to taper the edge of a 2x6 from 3/8 to 0, he would say, huh?

but yet he played sports. what a waste.

[gene]

The first thing is change. I will NOT vote for anyone in office. A new person cant do any worse!

[joe_dusel]

Yeah, no money for schools, but we are spending how many billions keeping our troops in places like Japan? And we are still spending money on space projects while laying off teachers. Yeah, that makes sense. I'm going to yell some more at my politicians. Let's get some more of the stimulus money where it can do some good - like into school programs.

Joe