Signfoam fix needed

[myxpykalix]

ok this is probably my fault but i need to fix it. If you look at the arrow part you will notice that after the cutting there were artifacts left that i thought i could just pluck off and use a chisel to smooth out....WRONG!:(

So now i have a flat bottom with gouge marks. I believe the signguy is going to gold leaf this so what can i do to smooth this out? Or does he have some magic tricks to fix this?

Is this bad enough that i should just not charge him and mark it up to experience or pay him for the material?

What is a 2" thick piece of HDU(?) 15"x31" worth?

I don't mind screwing up my own projects but man i hate doing it to others....

[donclifton]

I try not to use sign foam but when I make that kind of mistake I just sand it down with another piece of foam.
Don C
4axiscnc.com

[rb99]

What about bondo glazing putty?

I bet Joe Crumley will give you the best advice...

RIB

[joe]

Jack,

You can fix it!

Here's what I'd do. It can be routed again just a little deeper with a better step over. The biq question is how can I register it again perfectly. That's easy. Place a sacrifice mateial piece on your CNC the exact same size and carve that as your register. Block it up tight on all sides. Now you can start all over.

This situation happens to all of us. One needs to consider this type of boo boo in pricing. We all have to back up from time to time and it needs to be in the pricing scheme. The other consideration is the cost of customers materials. I believe 2" HDU sells for about $15.00 a square foot or $50.00 You've got to have some money as a buffer.

Good luck and let us know how you do.

Joe

[myxpykalix]

sOMETIMES SINCE I HAD NEVER DONE THIS, I NEED AFFIRMATION OF WHAT I (****) think the fix is. What i had inteneded to do since it is still in the jig on the table and all coordinates are still the same I was going to take the clearing pass and rerun it. If that didn't work i was going to give it a lower Z height by a thousandth or two and rerun it.

If that didn't work i was going to get the hammer out....

[joe]

Please tell us what happened.

Is this 15lb HDU?
Was your step over wrong?
What caused the problem in the first place?
Is there a problem with the HDU?
Could you take an up close photo of the problem?

[myxpykalix]

I was trying to make a flat bottomed arrow so i used a .25 endmill to clear the majority of material THEN used a 60vbit for the sides of the arrowhead and quill to match the lettering. That then left some material in the space of the flat cut, from the v cut. I used a chisel to just try to remove it and that was the result. I am going to go out and rerun the flat cut to see if that helps or hurts it. So I probably should have used the vbit cutting path first.

[myxpykalix]

I should have left well enough alone!! I offset the vectors for the arrow by 1/8th outwards and the depth down to .27 and here is the results. No idea why, what, where, how......jeeez...

HELP ME OBE WAN KENOBE...YOU'RE MY ONLY HOPE!!

[dvmike]

320 grit sand paper.
Then prime with a primer heavy in solids.
Then 320 grit paper again........lightly.

[myxpykalix]

progress...not great...I enlarged it by about 1/16th and took it down about 3-4 thousandths but for some reason it still won't cut those corners. This is clearly a vector issue i believe but the arrow has sharp corners and it cuts in the preview.

A question to you signmakers who work in foam....if/when you come across these issues do you have the tools and skills to fix this manually? If you had to fix this manually what would you do?

The reason i ask is, not that i think normally that the company should be responsible to fix (my) mistakes but that if the company has the tools and expertise could they do it?

I was cutting two of these for $50.00 as a favor and at this point am getting about $5.00/hour but i still feel like i need to make it right.

Does this look to you like it is bad enough to scrap it and pay them for the material and be done with it? The rest of the sign looks perfect.

[bleeth]

Sometimes you have to forget about "how do I fix this with my bot" and just get out the bondo and the skills you learned from many years in this stuff and fix it with your hands. And if it takes too long to fix it with your hands this time it will take a lot less time the 50th time you do it! That is why apprentices get paid what they do and journeymen get more. Practice makes perfect-or at least better-and if you need practice it is not your customer's problem to pay for it. So Jack my friend: You will be far from the first one to earn nothing for doing a job that you didn't know how to do at the beginning but have the fortitude to follow up and get it right. As a matter of fact I bet it won't be the first time in your life this is the way it is either. You already know what to do and the answer is within.

[joe]

Jack I don't think I know why you're still having a problem but here are a couple of ways I manage a rough letter bottom. When I carve rough cedar the bottoms of the letters always needs help.
You can mix epoxy and with a large vetirinary surrenge apply it in the well of the lette. A little OneShot will give it the color. I've shown this technique several times.

My favorite technique is to cut DiBond and plop it in the well. There's not a week which goes by where we don't use this technique.

Joe Crumley

[myxpykalix]

"You already know what to do and the answer is within"
Thanks OBE-Dave-Kenobe.....lol I appreciate the fact that you know the "pain I feel" for doing a job for free.

What i did do that fixed most of it except for a couple arrow corners was to go a few thousandths lower and a little larger. So everything is smooth with the exception of the problem in the corners.
How that was fixed was with a X-acto knife to sharpen the corner.

Dave I appreciate yours and Joes advice but all i was to do on this sign was to do the carving. I know nothing about making or repairing a sign or working with the signfoam. Maybe its time to sign up for Joes class!

thanks again guys

[fredtoo]

Joe,

What do you mean by:

"My favorite technique is to cut DiBond and plop it in the well"

[rb99]

I think he means they cut the recessed background shape out of thin DiBond plastic and completely cover the bottom of the recess to hide the background and create a perfect surface, or perhaps a coloured surface. (coloured is spelled like this in Canada)

Joe is this part of the strategy from the start or only used as a fix? If it is planned from inception could you tell me when and why please?

Thanks,

RIB

[joe]

Richard,

The technique of placing DyBond in well of the letters is our regular process now. It replaces painting or pouring epoxy in to the routed out letter area.

I have three jobs in the shop now which will get this treatment. It not only gives a cleaner look it's also speeds up the process. Perhaps I should post a photo or two showing how neat it is.

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

[paulkiecka]

looks like a registration problem, can you stretch the arrow to compensate?

[myxpykalix]

It was a vector issue and when i zoomed in i could see the problem and am fixing it for the one i'm doing today. Ultimately the real problem was that rather then create the arrow from scratch like i did the text I cheated and used the vectors they created from the arrow. That was my problem.

From now on i am going to have them send me a picture of what they want and include time for me to create it from scratch. That way I have no one else to blame but me if it isn't right and i hate to have to redo something because of someone elses mistakes.

The only problem i have is it didn't show up in any preview...oh well that is why Joe Crumley is Obe Wan and I am Luke Skywalker :)

[fredtoo]

Joe,

I would very much like to see a photo or two....

It's that old "a picture is worth a thousand words thing".

[joe]

Greg,

I'd be glad to do a short step by step. I'm now working on a very clean & simple horse ranch sign bound for Ocala, Florida. It will also be routed on Rough Cedar and have Mica letters. I'll post a steps along the way.

At my workshop, about three years ago, I demo'd the process. 'In the photo below I'm placing the DyBond letters in the letter wells. It only takes a dab or two of silicone to make the letters perminent. It's so simple and easy.

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

[mick40]

I too would love to see a demo / write up! Thanks for taking the time.

Mick