finishing exotics?

[myxpykalix]

I am making this jewelry box out of purpleheart and have never really worked with exotic woods. I want to vcut this leaf pattern in the sides and fill in the "field" with a dark color to accent the purple leaves. Is there anything i need to know about the oil content of the wood for finishing purposes? What type of dark stain is best for the field? What type of sealer coat would be best (polyurethane, ect?)

[rcnewcomb]

Purpleheart naturally darkens with age so in a few years your design may be a dark purplish-brown color. To slow this down look for a poly finish with UV blockers.

I also found the stuff tended to splinter while cutting -- but that was a few years and it may have been operator error contributing to that issue.

[myxpykalix]

I just found out about the splintering when running it thru the planer. I took lighter cuts and that helped it somewhat. Hopefully the carving on the face will eliminate most of it. Its not that bad. It has some nice figuring in it also.

[butch]

Jack
Another thing to watch, is that the board doesn't get to hot. I use a wide belt sander to level the boards. If I try to take too much off at one time the board gets hot and turns brown. Just need to sand down a bit more to remove it, but something to watch.
I have been finishing purple heart with lacquer, and I have some flyboxes that are 4 years old and have not turned brown yet. I don't know but there may be some UV protection.
I have used glaze on purple heart and got good results filling in the background of carvings. I use an antiquing asphaltum glaze with pretty good results.

[myxpykalix]

I have some glaze but i was concerned because it goes on like mud and i was concerned about having chunks of it in the small crevices and then trying to put some type of laquer or polyurethane over top of it.

[rcnewcomb]

Try a gel stain instead of glaze. It is less chunky and accepts a finish well.

[myxpykalix]

sorry i meant gel stain not glaze, got mixed up. The gel stain comes out chunky. I may just use very small bristle brush to get only the liquid part of gel stain and paint it in the small crevices instead of smearing it in.

I also noticed that when i cut it it was very oily and weeped from the cut and if i touched it i transferred it to the surface. I hope that doesn't create a stain.

[butch]

Jack
I have used both, and haven't had a problem with either.
I have used Old Master gel stain, with good results. Now, I wipe it on;let it sit for a few minutes; wipe off the excess;let dry over night.

The two glazes I use almost every day is McCloskey, Special Effects, Aging Glaze, 6460 Asphaltum. I use this on every cribbage board I make.

The other glaze I use is General Finishes, Water Based, Glaze Effects.(the turkey tail mount was done this way, as well as cutting boards, where I use acrylic paint and glaze)

I always either spray lacquer on before doing any engraving or carving; Or I wipe on a couple coats of oil, and sometimes wax and let dry over night then do my carvings and engravings and then do any glazing.

After engraving or carving I apply a glaze by smearing it all over the carving or engraving letting it set for a few minutes, then wipe off the excess with a lightly dampend cloth and let dry at least for 4 hours. On carvings then I sand (distress) the glaze to bring the highlights back out of the carving then finish with lacquer or wax.
I haven't had any problems with finish yet.

I can't say I have had any issues with chunks except on some glaze that I suspect might have frozen. And even then it wiped right off.

[Rob Mauriello]

Try a floor finish called Street shoe it is made by Basic coatings, has very high uv inhibitors and is perfectly clear, also very durable, if you take a moist rag after sanding purple heart wood and wipe it that is the colour it will stay, typically a deep rich redy colour like wet blood. hope that helps.

[knight_toolworks]

the problem is there are several species called purpleheart. the main one turns bown when you cut it turns purple and then turns brown again. the one I get turns a lighter purple when cut and then turns dark purple and stays that way it is also denser and harder. a good uv finish like a outdoor poly water or regular will help out.

[oddcoach]

just curious Jack why would you want to stain purpleheart. almost any stain you put on it will kill the purple

[myxpykalix]

Hi John
If you look at this picture the look i was trying to achieve was where i was carving out leaving the leaf pattern raised, i wanted to make just the background area within the square area darker to contrast the leaves and vines.

The rest I would leave alone with a clear coat to show off the beautiful color and figuring. So i agree covering that beautiful color and figure would almost be sacreligious!

What would you suggest for a coating for just the background field?

Based on some of the suggestions here, let me see if i understand something. Butch has said to apply coatings of oil PRIOR to carving and my assumption is so that it acts like a signmask so to speak to protect the areas you don't want the stain to go to correct?

Obviously thats too late in this case i'll remember that for next time but i think i would be ok to apply then wipe off of the high places.
But should I apply any type of polyurethane, shellac, ect first before the gel stain or afterwards?
I've always thought that the poly was the last coat and the protection coat to seal everything in?

[dmidkiff]

Jack,
Since you have already cut, maybe just let it turn brown and then lightly sand the high spot down. That should give it some contrast. Should'nt take but a few days. I have not worked with purpleheart, but red cedar changes color in a few days. Just a thought.

[phd1658]

Jack, I have done several purpleheart carvings. Dave's suggestion is excellent. I will normally place my carvings in a window until I get the desired shade of purple, then apply UV resistant varnish. If you do as Dave recommends, you could let the UV do its work on the sanded high spots and you should definitely get your contrast!

[myxpykalix]

"I will normally place my carvings in a window until I get the desired shade of purple"

Don't you mean "Brown"? The guy i got them from had lots of it sitting outside and the ones on top turned brown but the ones covered up in the stack were still purple.

I will set them outside, let them turn brown then lightly sand the high spots back to purple. Then coat it with a UV protectant poly or shellac right?

BTW Bill you are only 100+ miles from me in Charlottesville have you been down to the Troy, Va Camp shopbot in the past?

[phd1658]

Hi Jack. Maybe color is in the eyes of the beholder, but what happens is this: When you first mill purpleheart, it appears like a light shade of brown. Once you start exposing it to the sun, the previous light shade of brown turns purple. If left exposed too long, the purple turns dark brown. You have to catch the "purple" at the right shade and then treat it with a UV inhibitor. So, I suppose you might be able to lightly sand it and you MIGHT get the dark brown back to a "purple" color, but I don't think so. Odds are when you sand the high spots, you will just get a lighter brown.......which you could then expose to the sun, get it to turn purple, and coat it when it got to a color you wanted. The areas that you did not sand will just get darker brown. If I'm not explaining myself adequately, email me at munroe1@verizon.net and give me your phone number...I'll call you.

I have not yet been able to catch the Troy camp yet. It seems that for the last two years I have had either business or family obligations. I have been down that way and visited both Ed Lang and his cousin Jay Wyant. Both were most gracious and have helped me get started through several emails and phone calls. Both are great ambassadors for Shopbot as have been many, many others. I just hope that some day I will be able to contribute to the group as much as those who have helped me along the way!

[oddcoach]

Jack you could rout a pocket from the back side and put in a panel of a different wood

[myxpykalix]

Bill,
If you are ever back this way make sure to let me know because i am only 20 miles (if that) from Ed or Jay.

John,
Routing the back out and putting in a different wood is a neat idea. I may try that. My carving is only .15 deep and the board is .75 thick I would want to make sure it doesn't break any of the design.

If i decide to do that with a different box I would think it might be best to rout the back out first to the depth i want, then insert a sacrificial piece of wood to give the carving support while being routed on the other side, then replace the sacrificial piece with the good wood you want in there so as to keep it from being cut up by the vbit. Does that sound like a good strategy?

[oddcoach]

I think you would be ok routing it now just take shallow passes the purpleheart is pretty tough stuff. I don't think it will break.
That sounds good for the next one or you could glue the piece in and route through the glue

[knight_toolworks]

looking a the picture this purpleheart does not look like it will turn brown. it is a purpleheart I have not seen much of it's even harder and denser then the normal stuff and really sticks when you cut it. but I don't think it will be the type that turns brown like the stuff most people get. so plan on it staying purple.

[myxpykalix]

I have seen it discolored softly in the pile sitting outside and it seems very dense and hard. When cutting it i was reminded that it smelled a lot like carving walnut. It wasn't unpleasant but not as nice as cutting cedar.