A Big Pineapple

[cartar929]

I finally got a chance to use some smaltz, on a big sign. This was the first real chance where I got use it, I love this material. I feel like it can add a lot to a project.
I used the modern masters sapphire blue for the background, one shot copper for the border and pineapple, and one shot silver for the lettering.

I have the original proof of my sign shown. The client asked for a crest like sign, and to him that meant a giant pineapple instead of a lion. We had a little trouble managing the creative on this client because of budget issues. Does anyone have some good tips on how to possible manage this problem a little better?

I am not the sales guy, but I always hear the back end of it, and I don't feel it is always effectively handled. I would love to know of any suggestions or helpful ways of managing a creative idea to clients in order to not get so beat up on revision design time.

I am also interested to see and learn about what other unique or not so common materials people like to use in their work.

I've got a few pictures posted of the project, it was just recently installed so the area around it is a little rough. I also have a close up picture of the smaltz feel free to use it as a pattern in any renderings you might need, because I had a tough time trying to find a good image to show in my proof.

In advance I appreciate the input.

[navigator7]

The client asked for a crest like sign, and to him that meant a giant pineapple instead of a lion. We had a little trouble managing the creative on this client because of budget issues. Does anyone have some good tips on how to possible manage this problem a little better?

I am not the sales guy, but I always hear the back end of it, and I don't feel it is always effectively handled. I would love to know of any suggestions or helpful ways of managing a creative idea to clients in order to not get so beat up on revision design time.

Confidence!
Get Control.
Assume the sale.
Communicate communicate communicate.

I'm reminded of the drive up window at McDonalds.
They "expect" the customer to buy.
You "expect" food.
You aren't getting food til you pay.
"We apologize for the wait"
I hate those drive up lanes as you get blocked in.....but you know you are buying something!

Your customer should "know" he is buying something when he leaves your shop. Money needs to change hands.

Your work is stunningly beautiful! I love it!
A quality sign like you have produced has value that will last for a long time.
If you can produce signs like that...assume confidence whether or not you have it.
Otherwise a piece of butcher paper and a can of spray paint would work.

If you ask for a Big Mac and get a Fillet-O-Fish .... communications broke down.
On the other hand, if you wanted pickles and you get no pickles...what are you gonna do?

One-offs are unique.
The customer is not going to build it.
That's why he's talking to you!
Customers can smell fear and a lack of confidence like sharks smell blood.
Its very easy to pay for the privilege of working by giving away profits and overhead when working in vacuum of confidence.

Assume the sale with confidence and deliver.

[joe]

C.

Thanks for posting your attractive sign. She's a beauty. It's so good to have more creative people posting.

I'm also working on an entrance sign with visable steel structure as an element. Your smaltz technique really looks good. What did you use for an adhesive? Modern Masters has some outstanding finishes and this is a good example. Smaltz and MM is a good combination.

I don't believe there's a way of getting around some customers rigid requests. I think it's part of the business.

Your website is very helpful with designs and pricing.

Thanks for posting

Joe Crumley

[scottbot]

C.
Fantastic sign. Thanks for sharing that. I've never heard of smaltz before but it looks great. I'll be checking into it.

[joe]

Scott,

Smaltz has been around for decades. You can purchase some from www.letterheadsignsupply.com (http://www.letterheadsignsupply.com). It's a crushed glass and comes in lots of colors and textures. I blieve Raymond Chapman has posted signs with this technique.

The idea of applying metalic paint to smaltz is a new one for me. I have most of MM metalic paints and look forward to trying this technique.

Joe

[cartar929]

I put down the smaltz the traditional way of mixing half oil paint (I used green and believe that the brand was Chromatic?) and half Smith's Cream (didn't have the actual Smith's brand, used Jack's Cream instead).

I didn't mean to be misleading about how I used the Modern Masters blue, I just used it for the blue background. I am not sure how well Modern Masters would mix with using it for smaltz since it is water based.

But, this is my first time really ever using this material so I think that there could be some tricks and adhesives that I am not aware of that might make that idea work.

If you were able to use a one shot metallic based paint that might work better for a smaltz application depending on the smaltz color. The idea does sound like it could create some really cool results.


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I would agree on selling with confidence would get favorable results. I appreciate the input.

[joe]

C,

I'll give the Smaltz and MM a test. A primer coat may be necessary.

The combo of Smiths (Jack's) Cream combined with lettering enamel will give plenty of time to set up. I've been using epoxy mixed with a little One Shot. Your method is the old tried and proven process.

What software package are you using for 3D work?

Joe

[cartar929]

Joe I am using Google Sketchup:
http://sketchup.google.com/

It is open source, they do have a "full version" that you can buy. However I use the freebie version. I create my sign in illustrator and export it as a .dwg then bring it into Sketchup and extrude the shapes.

The free version doesn't come with all of the necessary plug-ins so you will have to do a little bit of searching if you are trying to create something truly unique or are importing some files. You have to download the .dwg plug-in for Sketchup: http://sketchup.google.com/intl/en/download/plugins.html.

The second hyperlink has a ton of plug-ins for the free version. The program isn't too terribly difficult for being a 3D program. It works really well with CAD if you have that program by any chance.

You have the ability to create your own textures and the program comes with many good ones installed as well. If you need a 3D program to show some renderings but don't have the budget for something like Cinema 4D or Maya, Sketchup is a friendly way to go.

I also know that Blender is an open source 3D program as well, and is a little more complex than Sketchup, however if you have the time it may be worth learning a few tricks in it.
http://www.blender.org/

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If you do get a chance to use your modern masters mix with smaltz let me know how it turns out for you, it sounds like a really cool idea.

[joe]

C.

Thanks for the informative reply. I'm presently using ArtCam which isn't easy and very expensive. Couldn't recommend it to anyone.

From what I understand Sketch Up, Bender and the others don't have the ability to assign tool paths. Is this correct?

Joe

[cartar929]

Joe,
That is right it is best as only being shown for proof purposes. From what I understand there is no ability to set up tool paths.

[powerlsc]

Besides the metal fabrication what were your substrates for the sign? Do you do your own metalwork? Great design...hope the client was very pleased.

[cartar929]

Thanks for the compliment. The substrate was #18 hdu, and I think the brand used was Design Board and it was the third generation. There is a big difference in quality from the #15 to the #18 if you decide to use this brand, and I would always recommend the #18.

We sub out our metal work to Legacy Ironworks they are located semi-close to use, and have used them in the past with good results. We have used him a lot for powder coated aluminum and that is what this metal work is as well.

The client I suppose was happy he was pretty much a dick to work with and took 60 days to pay. But, then again maybe he wasn't happy because he used someone else to build another project we had designed and quoted for him. I suppose that is just how it is though.