Stair Making

[shiela@eircom.net]

Thanks, Bill, for the welcome.Whatever about distance,I'll give that other guy who's in for 'wannabee with most to learn ' a run for his $25 ! Is there anyone out there who uses their Shopbot for day-to-day stairmaking ? - I would dearly like to hear from you.I can't reciprocate with CNC stuff,but I'm no mean woodturner(nor shy either)Barter tableware for info? John S.

[rgengrave@aol.com]

John I have done a few files for shopbotter for stairs but no 2 the same, you got a close-up picture of what you are trying to do? post it or email it to me and I will take a look.

Ron V

[shiela@eircom.net]

Ron , thank you.Basic need is to rout strings to receive steps and risers-currently done with hand routers. We use a dovetail cutter ,7/8th inch diameter.I will take digital photo .No two are ever the same . Please send me a direct e-mail to shiela@eircom.net (mailto:shiela@eircom.net) ,as my mail programme refuses to send new mails but allows me to reply to sender.I will then be able to send the picture.John S
P S I'm concious of being'off thread'I'll get off here when Ron replies

[bill.young]

Hi John,

A ShopBot would make an ideal stair-stringer machine. I worked for a stair company when I was in my late teens, and though I spent most of my time there cutting treads and risers to length with a GIGANTIC radial arm saw, I occasionally got to use the "Pickels" machine to route stringers.

It was a neat machine...kind of like two overarm routers that moved together like radial arm saws, with one mounted upside down so that it did a pair of stringers at a time. Part electric and part pneumatic, it was also manually controlled, with lots of stops and angle settings that you had to change for each set of stairs. Seems to me it was also pretty expensive for back then...$30k or so.

I've routed one set of stair stringers with my ShopBot for a friends house, more as an experiment than anything else, and other than having a problem keeping the lumber flat on the table they turned out just fine. I created the ShopBot file for that one by just drawing the toolpath in TurboCAD, but a stair-making routine for the ShopBot would make it pretty easy. It might be fun to play with...do you know of any good stair-layout references?


Take care,
Bill

[shiela@eircom.net]

Bill. Yes, a dedicated stairmaking routine(macro?)sounds like just the thing. When you say 'layout references' do you mean as in 'text books'?If we can input the risings and goings (the variables)into a programme containing the fixed elements (thread thickness , nosing projection, nosing radius, wedge angles , depth of trench,etc.),we would be in carpenters' Heaven. We also have a 'Pickles' as you describe.The difference ,as we see, it must be similar to offering a city teenager a carton of milk ,or a cow with the instruction "Milk that" I'm very glad that you say the 'bot is the ideal machine. I look forward to learning to 'milk' it.
To RON BROWN and to RGENGRAVE ; Thank you for your messages . Nothing I can do will induce this machine to send a reply. I must wait until my web-master son comes home, when I will be glad to take up your offer . John S.

[shiela@eircom.net]

Bill. Yes, a dedicated stairmaking routine(macro?)sounds like just the thing. When you say 'layout references' do you mean as in 'text books'?If we can input the risings and goings (the variables)into a programme containing the fixed elements (thread thickness , nosing projection, nosing radius, wedge angles , depth of trench,etc.),we would be in carpenters' Heaven. We also have a 'Pickles' as you describe.The difference ,as we see, it must be similar to offering a city teenager a carton of milk ,or a cow with the instruction "Milk that" I'm very glad that you say the 'bot is the ideal machine. I look forward to learning to 'milk' it.
To RON BROWN and to RGENGRAVE ; Thank you for your messages . Nothing I can do will induce this machine to send a reply. I must wait until my web-master son comes home, when I will be glad to take up your offer . John S.

[bill.young]

John,

That's exactly how it could work... a couple of variables that you would input to define the rise and run for a particular set of stairs, and a handful of default constants that would rarely need to be changed.

What would be needed would be a method for figuring out each intividual step's rise and run when you are given the total height and length of the stairs. I seem to remember that there were two formulas that we used to do the calculations. One divided the staircase into a certain "ideal" number of steps and the other involved the ratio of the treads to the risers...something like "tread times double the riser equals ( some number)" Is that how you figure it out?

Once those formulas were used and the treads and risers were defined, a little trigonometry could calculate the angles that the grooves had to be routed in the stringers. I think it could all be done with the ShopBot part file language... a stairmaking "virtual tool"

I'll check the local library and see if I they have any stairmaking books...do you know of any websites with good stairmaking info?

Bill

p.s. watch out for those guys in the "steel vs wood" table thread... they'll have you building wrought iron stairs if you let them :^)

[gerald_d]

I heard that!

[John Shiel]

Bill. There is no problem with calculation of 'rise and go' dimensions .Choice is generally a mixture of ideal building regs vs. in-house geography .No real contest, usually. Info on practical stairmaking appears to be sketchy on the net. I'm sure your approach involving'trig' will do the trick .Winders are the parts most likely to be awkward. Btw.. I was offered a dedicated stairmaking programme at a recent woodworking exhibition---$24,000 !!They did say it did everything except assemble the product.As for steel vs timber.. wood would win would wood. I can see my decision to go over in May will be well worth while. Thank you John S

[garbob]

I saw this site mentioned on a woodworking forum a while ago. I believe that it is a free demo and I think that it costs under $50.

I hope that this helps.

http://www.eteknic.com/mc.html

[waynelocke]

I received a catalog from Linden Publishing, www.lindenpub.com which has a reprint of a 424 page reprint of a 1900 book, A Treatise on Stairbuilding and Handrailing. The price is $26.95. I thought it might be of interest.
Wayne Locke

[John Shiel]

Gary and Wayne,thank you both. I will follow up on the contacts.John S.

[pnielsen]

John, I have made several tries to email you, but they all come back to me...

Could you please email me, I have some information for you about stair software.

Also want to know if your going to attend the Jamboree ?

Thanx
Paul

[Jshiel@dol.ie]

Paul,
Thank you . Please try jshiel@dol.ie (mailto:jshiel@dol.ie) . Ihave had much computer trouble due to a real live mouse. I will attend Jamboree and am looking forward to it . I will try direct e-mail also.
Regards , John.

[mdebruce]

Hi All,
First post. I see this is an old thread so you probably have problem solved, however.
I'm "fixing" to buy a ShopBot and look forward to talking to fellow ShopBotters. I currently do Mechanical Design out of a shop behind my home. I have a very nice CAD/CAE package called Pro/E.
Per John “(the variables) into a programme containing the fixed elements (thread thickness, nosing projection, nosing radius, wedge angles, depth of trench, etc.), we would be in carpenters' Heaven.”
I would be interested in seeing what (if any) further requirements are required to cut your stair stringers. I should be able to do a routine that would automatically output a .dxf file for any straight landing-to-landing routine. After the initial programming it would take me longer to e-mail the file than to create it. Unless the demand became too great I would be glad to help.
This is the kind of stuff I do to keep bread on the table so maybe I can provide assistance in this realm in exchange for all the great help I see in these forums.

De

[cncrouting@attbi.com]

Hi.

I'm a currently unemployed computer hack, so if you guys can a) give me the formulas you need to calculate, b) the variables that you enter at run time, and c) what results you want and how you want them to look, I can whip something easy up for you in excel. I can accomodate for both ideal and physical geometries if you wish. Not looking for money, just something constructive to do until my bot arrives. Drop me a message if interested.

Regards,

Neil

[ron_cleaver]

Neil,

Are you looking for a job? My company (Alexandria, VA) has an opening now. You can email me directly and I'll send you more info - rcleaver@ida.org (mailto:rcleaver@ida.org)

[stickman]

Stair Cutting,

What would be the best router bit to cut 1 1/2" 2x stair stringers? 1/2" Compression? I'm not routing out.

[jim_ludi]

If you're looking for a stair building reference you might want to try Taunton Press' "Basic Stairbuilding" by Scott Schuttner (ISBN 1-56158-322-7) - $19.95 - seems pretty comprehensive. Probably available from their web site; got my copy from Home Depot.

[jay]

Neil, I sent you an email but it was bounced back to me. Could you please email me I have a couple of questions for you. jsp at shaw.ca