For Newbe's Only

[joe]

For Newbe's Only. (Experts not allowed)


I think we should spend more time with choosing just the right wood. Lets say your are doing a quarter board, which goes on a dock or boat, then mahogany would be a good choice. But maybe not. Perhaps a piece of driftwood could be used. Lets say you have a farm or wild west job. Then you could go with rough cut lumber like cedar or pine. But the point is, choose the right material for the job. Stay away from hardwoods except for Teak and Mahogany. For your more refined signs, I'd suggest kiln dried, vertical grain. I've been making up panels of yellow pine, vertical grain, bought from Lowe's. This isn't for the kind of work for a novice. It takes way too much time unless you are set up. But the detail and strength are hard to beat. I've found the finished signs are more difficult and time consuming and require more maintenance. I'm presently working with Cypres and learning a lot of new lessons. Each species has it's personality and you can't violate it or you'll pay with failure. No matter how you old you get, or how long you've been in the saddle, there are lots of lessons to be learned.


A general rule when painting outdoor signs, don't use paints that dry hard like urethanes. Stay with the latexes when possible. They are flexable and move with the wood. It's wonderful for backgrounds and One Shot, with a hardener, for the little detail pieces. Walmart brand latex is excellent at half the price. Stay away from VALSPAR latex.


After a dozen years or so, you may get the chance to repaint an old wood sign. This year I've refurbished a few of these old boys. It's a treat and once sanded, primed and repainted they will last another ten years or so. What about HDU's, aren't they better? Nor Really. In a few special cases the synthetics come in first place. But when it comes to dimensional strength they fall far behind wood. That's because they have no interior fiber and don't hold screws or bolts.Nor to mention they will warp and flop all over the place unless braced up.

The photo's below show a couple of referbs from this year. I believe both of these are on my website.


One parting thought. We should respect wood more. It's an amazing product and I feel privileged to work with it. I love the smell and ease of cutting. And when a project is completed and leaving my shop, I feel even more respectful.


Just a few thoughts.


Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

[blackhawk]

Thanks Joe and keep us posted on your work using cypress. Western red cedar in my area is outrageously expensive. I have thought about trying cypress, since it is about half the cost of WRC. Our Lowe's stores here, unfortunately do not carry the yellow pine.

[curtiss]

For those that don't know,

anyone in the same room with Sir Joe would be considered "a Newbe" ....

[penman]

Thank you Joe for your advise.

Although I am mainly concerned with making small plaque's and SMALL signs I always enjoy, and read your posts and try and take on board whatever you try to get accross.

Thanks and please keep on trying to enliighten us rookies.

Roger.

[ajf]

I've been meaning to ask this question for some time. On your red cedar signs do you seal the portion of the sign that is left the natural cedar color and only paint the text and graphics on the sign. Or do you seal everything with some clear coat then paint the graphics and text later or is there some other method that eludes me. When you say don't use urethane's does the water based Varthane fall into that category as well.

[Big-Tex]

On your red cedar signs do you seal the portion of the sign that is left the natural cedar color and only paint the text and graphics on the sign. Or do you seal everything with some clear coat then paint the graphics and text later or is there some other method that eludes me. When you say don't use urethane's does the water based Varthane fall into that category as well.

That is good question..... Here is $0.02

I sealed exposed wood painted rest. I did not want stain to bleed through paint.
One thing you need to remember when dealing with wood. Wood is like bunch of straws where moisture is sucked up mainly by end grain and that is where decay will start. I make sure my end grain is sealed or painted 200%. There still will be contraction and expansion that is natural due to temperature and humidity variation. Oil is a good preservative you can find it in nature, just look at teak.

Now let's hear from Dr.Crumley and uncle Raymond.

[chiloquinruss]

Here locally I have access to some juniper and have tried to make some signs using it. It is a beautiful wood to look at and carve BUT . . . . . It is very very unstable once cut! I had a piece that had been dried and was very flat and true. I clamped it into the bot and carved away (very shallow v carve lettering and a couple of simple designs at both ends of the lettering). The piece was 12 in by 48 in. When I unclamped the very cool looking sign the ends popped up 2 inches on each end! I had to make an angle iron frame to pull it back flat for mounting. Ended up looking OK but my goodness 2 inches on each end! Russ

[joe]

Russ,

Isn't the Juniper tree what cedar chests are made from. We have lots of it here in Oklahoma. It's considered a pest tree. I absolutely love them for what they are. Ken Z uses them for furniture and tables and signs. Mills over his way are cutting tons of it.

Al,

In my post a couple of weeks ago “ Rough Cedar Again”, I've pocketed out for the letters. No more of the painting down in the well of the letters for me. I give the cedar a couple of good coats of Sikkens. Then the letters a cut from Dibond and set in the pockets. Easy work. I can make one of these signs in half the time it takes to make a HDU sign.

Painting:

Like Thomas stated, the board ends are where most of the moisture and evaporation will take place unless blocked off. This is easily done with a couple extra coats of paint. I use to epoxy them but found the that didn't work since the boards would crack the epoxy in no time and leave the ends exposed. Remember, wood is going to move and you can't stop it. Now I use some good old scrap latex paint.

It's almost a guarantee, softwood painted panels will show tannin stains without a dedicated stain blocker. I prefer Zinzer, Kilz, or Block Out White. These will also slow down the moisture exchange from wet to dry making the wood more stable.

What about those little microbes, bugs, which eat away at our wood and turn them Punky also known as Dry Rot. It's a topic to cover at another time.



We need more respect for wood! I'm turning into a wood Mensch.

Joe
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com/)

[knight_toolworks]

now you say not to really use hardwoods but what about woods like purpleheart and ipe and such? they are bullet proof outside and they don't care too badly either. They don't even need finish to hold up.

[joe]

Steve,

I'm sure there are some good exterior hardwoods that would be excellent but not only are they expensive but not readily available. Teak, Mahagony, Purple Heart are so exotic I'd be hesitant to post recommendations. I do know IPE is tough enough but not only is it heavy as iron, eats router bits, I've never seen it thicker than 6 quarter.

Have you ever made an outdoor sign from one of these materials and how did it hold up?

[knight_toolworks]

I am testing purpleheart out in some wacky things. but the stuff is used for piers and decking.
but you are right about the weight. IPE is bullet proof but getting dry wood is hard over 4/4. I have used a ton of these woods making hand planes so to me I am used to it.
they tend to be more stable then most american woods. Here I can buy purpleheart for less then most American woods. about 4.50 for 8/4