Projects and Pictures

[Mayo]

Here's something I just finished... (it's not my design) some of the pieces will be edited further but the majority of the 40 something pieces are done :-)

http://www.difsupply.com/wolf75.jpg

When my sister's dog saw this in the yard, he went absolutely nuts barking and shaking/trembling (ok she's got a wimpy poodle)

[Jim S.]

Hey Mayo, Cool Wolf. Where might one find the Plans to do such an animal. I would be interested in Other models too. Thanks

[birdsofplay]

Check out ...
http://www.aboyd.com/dinosaurs/dinowoodkits.html
http://www.aboyd.com/sealife/sealifewoodkits.html

I bought all the Dinos.
Someone also has bugs and other wildlife figures.

Scale em up and Bot em out :-)

[Mayo]

The plans for these kinds of things don't exist anywhere I know of.

Basically you get an existing kit like Bob mentioned, scan it, trace or vectorize it, and then enlarge it. This takes lots of hours. And you have to keep in mind, on the kits which assemble by putting tabs into slots, when you enlarge everything, the slots become larger than your material thickness. This means manually editing every piece that has a slot.

I would be willing to trade the wolf files for other compatible files. It's designed to use 1/2" particle board or MDF or any material that is really 1/2".

[danhamm@abccom.bc.ca]

What kind of files would you be interested in Mayo? horses, grizzly's, whales, Dan H

[shimpj@bellsouth.net]

Can anyone direct me to a web site(s) that make available ready to cut cnc plans?
thank you - Roy Shimp

[greg_oliver]

Roy, having just got back from the jamboree on Sunday, I saw a need for some templates to use with the the ShopBot. I have put together a CD of over 100 sign blanks to start out with. You can go to my website and take a look and download a sample file. www.simple-signage.com

[syp@earthlink.net]

New parts wizzard software!! Whats that?

[rusty]

Hi all:
When I purchase my new ShopBot I may have to install & run it in the basement. I can get 4 X 8 ft sheets of whatever into the basement.
I am asking for some help to let me know all about the dust/debris problems & how I should control them. Would be good to hear from those with the experience of working in the basement. Will have my garage built much later this year.
Thanks.
Rusty (from Calgary, Alberta, Canada)
canquest@shaw.ca (mailto:canquest@shaw.ca)

[bob buttons]

rusty the dust will be a problem no matter what dust collector you have. we have the router in an isolation room to keep the majority of the dust inside and the keep the noise down. all routers are loud when talking about a basement. if you dont contain your shopbot everything in your basment will have a layer of fine dust on it in 2 weeks and will just get worse. at least the isolation room keeps the airborne dust contained. cannot help getting the floor dust from getting out though. we have a 6hp dust collector too which is very powerful and dust still gets out and covers the shopbot with time. hope this helps.

[david@Thecarpentershelper.com]

Rusty Bob is right but if you have to put it in the basement then I would suggest a room like Bob is talking about just remember to leave enough room to walk around the Bot so you can work on it. also even though the bigger vacs cost a bit (Grizzly.com has some great prices) I use a 2hp hooked up to three wood working machines one is the Bot I ran a six inch main trunk with each machine then being down sized to 4 inch the line for the bot is also a four inch and it will suck your pants off of you. I still get the fine dust but not as bad as Bob states just don't do a lot of stuff like MDO that stuff has awful fine dust: pine and other wood are not as bad.I was going to do mine in a basement in our new house in Wyoming but then relized not enough room, I do signs and they can take up alot of space I rented a building with 2800 sq feet and jus barly can get by when I'm real busy. Dave in wyoming PS, when you hook up your vac keep the runs as straight as possible the more turns you have the more stactic pressure and loss of suction.

[rusty]

Thanks Bob B. & David S. for the great advise on setting up in the basement. David do you have any pictures on your vacuum piping setup? Talk to you guys later. Do you guys have web sites showing your hobbies/businesses?
Rusty

[david@thecarpentershelper.com]

Rusty yes I have pics on the vac I'll email them to you a little later have to input them into the computer. I have a web site but still under construction just some pics of a Hawaii vacation from this year www.thecarpentershelper.com the young girl on the first page is my GRANDDAUGHTER she is quite the kick David in Wyoming

[tonyb]

Rusty
I have a Shopbot in a small garage and have ( after much experimentation )made a quite satisfactory dust extractor for my ShopBot using different dust hoods for each router. i am going to get the whole router mount and dust hood cast in aluminiun and have a removable brush to make zeroing the Z and Acc axis's easier.presently I have the hoods made from MDF and glued too the bottom of my mount. it works to the point that there is no lose dust floating around and the boards are clean when finnished. I still have dust left in trenches left by the router and cannot seem to collect this
I use a 2 HP dust extractor\cyclone out side and found that dust ectractors with bags were not much good because the very fine dust off MDF seems to clog up the bags.

[studebaker]

If you ever get a mold for that aluminium casting you're talking about, I'd be in the market for one of those dust hoods! It sounds like an great idea!

[rusty]

Thanks Anthony for the dust collection reply. It definetely needs to go into the garage. Where do you live & what do you use your ShopBot for? Talk to you soon again.
Rusty

[staffordb001@hawaii.rr.com]

Rusty,
you may consider using clear plastic painters drop cloths, (apx 10'x20'), attached to the ceiling and walls to prevent the dust from migrating upstairs. works fairly well my work shop.

[beacon14]

Be careful draping your walls and ceilings with plastic - in the event of a fire the dust covered plastic can cause a small flame to spread very fast, and the smoke can be fatal. I worked in a building where an insurance company made us remove a plastic sheet we had used to keep dust out of an area we weren't leasing.

[edwardmc]

Here are two pic's of a head board I just finished . It is made from 2x6's glued up. the vectors come from vector art cd and editing was done with Turbocad. I had a frend do the toolpath for me as I dont have a program to vcarve yet. The way it sets in the room both sids can be seen so I done the art on both. It only took 40 min to carve the big side and about 30 on the front.

I just cant put in words how much I love my Shopbot. In the Two years I have had it. I have only got out of square once and that was when I move it over 3" and up 4" using floor jacks and then it was only a matter of relevling it. I think that the floor was off. Other then that the only problem's I have had has came from the loose nut behind the wheel. Like leaving out a decimal point there seem's to be a big difference between 31.250 and 31250 . It turns a $40.00 bit in to scrapnal.

2445

[edwardmc]

This is the othe side

2446

[pappy]

Ed,

Super good work! Did you do the carving with it fully assembled or carve and then assemble?

[kerrazy]

Ed,
Stop It!!!!
You have already created a monster with the your reindeer and sleigh files.

The local paper will be featuring them in mondays edition, and I am afraid of being slammed with orders.

I want to publicly thank you for getting that ball rolling with the sleigh and reindeer idea,as it may prove to be a great fundraiser for our organization. Response so far has been overwhelming. And Bill young, a big thanks goes to you for the wedge connection system I borrowed for assembling the sleigh.

It really makes me proud when I talk about my ShopBot, but more importantly it makes me really proud to have a community such as this where ideas are freely shared.
Thanks to all for allowing us to truly enjoy our tool.
Dale Kerr
Against The Grain.

[edwardmc]

I glued the hole thing together then planed it with a 1 1/2 bit ( just like leveling the table )
then cut the shape out then vcarved it. I made the glueup 1" biger then I wanted so it would come out square and unaform every where. The upright part of the legs was the only exseption. I only had 1/4" extra there. The head board is 48" tall and 56" wide. If I want to make one taller I well need to make it diferantly. Maby make the legs glue on separately. Thay are mortis tenden so it would come out pretty close and not leave much sanding.

[srwtlc]

Ed,

Do you know what program your friend used for the v-carving?

Scott

[donchandler]

Dale,
With the price of 5/8 cdx about $25/sht around here. I am wondering what price you have set for the sleigh. I cut a pair of deer out of 3/8 cdx ($15/ sht)and they look great. I painted them white and priced them at $50 for the pair. No one seems interested at this price. What do you think, am I too high? I don't think I could do it any cheaper and make any money. Thanks for your thought.

[kerrazy]

hey Don,
We are selling the deer for $60.00 each or $100.00 for the pair. And the sliegh and Santa for $250.00. A full set of 8 deer and the sleigh is $560.00. This is unfinished also, I market it as a family experience to come together and paint them.

Sold three deer and a full set yesterday, and 4 deer and a full set the week before.

Our materials are about $40.00 a sheet.

Try leaving some rough, just sand off the ink from the stamps, and clean up the edges. and see what happens.
Dale

[jay_mack1@hotmail.com]

Guys,

Thought I'd update you all on my progress with the machine. Having a CAD background and being able to take what learning curve and straighted it. I'm enjoying the challenges that clients present. When I get more time I want to get deeper into other projects.

I'm attaching my first complicated project. (well, what I called hair-pulling for the first couple hours) I still have something I want to do with this part, but that is what I got after two trial cuts.




MDF - 1/8" bit

[edwardmc]

Here is a gift I made for my grandaughter. I ended up having to grind a bit to get the text to come out. What I did was take a old broken 1/4" bit and ground it to a 30 deg. v bit. It worked real good . Any body know where I could get 30 deg. bits. To save the extra work + the high speed steel takes a beating cuting mdf. I'm haveing to resharpen it after every use.

2447

[jay_mack1@hotmail.com]

Ed, how do you get such large pictures posted... I can't get mine to post... says they are too big.. UGH!

[edwardmc]

Stickman

The trick is to reduce the colors to 256 and save the file in jpg format compressed to about 40 some times 30 to get the file size down to the 25kb. the angle pic is 24kb. if you where to try to print it you would get ****, you need at least 300 pixels to print. But you only need 72 pixels for a computer screen.
check your mail the file you asked me to send has been bouncing back every 30 min. sence yesterday.

[jay_mack1@hotmail.com]

Ed,

I'll try the file conversion... I cleared out my mail box this morning sorry about the bounce!

Jay

[jay_mack1@hotmail.com]

Here we go! I've been working on this all weekend. I have a few revisions to do to the file and I'll be ready to cut them from oak. We'll see if I get a chance to work on it today or not. Maybe later. This is out of MDF using an 1/8" bit.


2448

[jay.mack@chiefind.com]

The picture looks pretty horrid, I had to crop it out. This is the center of the firefighter maltese cross.

(from above) Thought I'd update you all on my progress with the machine. Having a CAD background and being able to take what learning curve and straighted it. I'm enjoying the challenges that clients present. When I get more time I want to get deeper into other projects.

My ShopBot will be a month old on Thursday. So I don't feel like I've done too bad. Working on this project has helped me to better understand how Part Wizard works and how to layout the drawing in order to get the depths that I wanted.

[edwardmc]

StickMan's pic

2449

[jay_mack1@hotmail.com]

Ed,

Thanks for the help, on my other computer the files were registering too high to be placed here. But when I looked at them this morning, they were as you said. Thanks.


2450

[GB Craftsman]

Stickman
The ladder looks a little chattered in your last photo.
This will take some clean up time by hand. I've been down this road and don't like having to hand sand out the chatter.
Do you recall what your cut speed was, The size of the cutter, the brand of router bit you used and router speed ?
GB Craftsman

[jay_mack1@hotmail.com]

Yeah the chatter was discouraging, but its a test piece:

I used a 1/8" bit, conv cut path with part wizard, MCLS down spiral at 21,000 rpm , with the bot moving at 1" per second. On the center I slowed the router down to 16,000 rpm

[kerrazy]

Stickman,
Slow your bot feed speed down and use an upcut spiral. I would move At about .70/sec the higher feed rate will cause tearout from the blank.
Dale

[gerald_d]

A 1/8" bit should go at the max speed of an electrical router. No?

[GB Craftsman]

Stickman
Thank you for getting back.
How long did it take for this file to cut ?

[artisan]

Hello Stickman....try using a Carbide, double straight flute design for your bit. When clearing material, and looking for a clean edge, the straight flute is very efficient and will compensate somewhat for the grain in the oak with it's knife edges. I'll say again also....Carbide, is the only way to go when cutting hard woods such as Oak. The good news is that this type of bit is readily available at a Home Depot or Lowe's type store. A couple of other thoughts...downcut spirals are seldom good choices for hard materials as there is nowhere for the compression or chips to go and this may be causing your "fuzzies" as your chips can literally block the bit from doing it's job. Also, as a rule of thumb, don't outrun your bit, don't use a stepdown larger than your bit diameter in anything but soft material. 1/4" bit, equals 1/4" material removal per pass max. I hope this helps, otherwise, it looks like you're catching on pretty fast. Good Luck...D

[jay_mack1@hotmail.com]

GB,

It took it just under an hour, slowing down the bot will put it over an hour, but if it gets me the results needed, I'll be happy with that. I work on organizing and cleaning the shop while it's cutting.

Dale, is it possible to adjust the speeds that PWiz sets for the tooling? Can I adjust that when I run it in the shop?

I'm working to get a dust collector, I'll have to take a picture of the dust boot I cut from a 2 x 6. I found a piece of 1/4" plexiglass that I want to cut for a top and cutouts for the dust takeoff hub.

What is a good glue to use for plexiglass?

Thanks!

[jay_mack1@hotmail.com]

Dale,

Won't the upcut cause problems at the edges? The bit I'm using is downcut solid carbide.

Jay

[jkforney]

Stickman
Try an offset so that your area clearance will stop short of your line. Then profile the actual line. This will get rid of any divots as the bit is pulled into the wood further than you like and the profile should clean upto the lines.

If your bit is a 1/4, try an eighth offset. Then your profile will only be removing an eighth.

Also, you can try an offset tool path to clean around the islands. It seems that sometimes the offset tool path will leave small parts of the area clearance untouched.

Hope what I am trying to say comes across.


John Forney

[kerrazy]

Hey Jay,
The upcut will work as it helps extract the chips out of the work, where the downcut forces the chips down, which is fine when cutting through material.
You can when you start the file in your control software push the spacebar to stop the machine and on your screen you will see a serious of command options, such as quit, close , resume and insert command. You want I for Insert command, and from there you would type in SS (setspeed) and then type in your speed .70 you can adjust your ramp speed here as well, by following the .70 with a comma and then entering your ramp speed (which should not exceed 60% of your feed rate speed)
Hope this helps.
Als yes you can adjust your spped rates in partswizard as well. If you select your tool path and then right click on it select edit toolpath. From there look for the word tool and the down arrow beside it. Click on the down arrow and it will show you all the tool parameters you can adjust for that particular tool for that particular job.
Make your adjustments and re-calculate your toolpath, and Bob's your uncle!
Dale
if you would need further instruction don't hesitate to call me directly @ 613-880-8292

Dale

[jay_mack1@hotmail.com]

Guys,

Thanks for your help. I am planning on trying to cut the file in the morning. I work part-time for the county ambulance service as an EMT, it snowed today and we live near I-80, so it can be a busy night if it were to be icy. So I spent the night playing cards with my kids. Hope to get a shot at it in the morning.

Thanks again. Looking forward to contributing to one of your projects.

[jay_mack1@hotmail.com]

Well,

I was hoping to get a good cut this morning, but as the project started, everything was looking good, until the 1/8 bit snapped off. Which I can understand, they can be a little weak and after time I am sure they fatigue out. So its off to order more bits and wait. I am hoping I can get them before the end of the week.

[mrdovey]

Stickman...

I have a couple of 1/8" spirals (including a brand-new solid carbide bit) that I don't think I'll be needing before the new year...

I'm also just off I-80 (in central Iowa) - are we close enough that I can be of help?

Morris

[stickman]

I cut this again last night...

Using an 1/8" Three Flute upcut that I got from a machinist... Hard White Maple


2451

[Brady Watson]

Jay,
That looks good. If you are going to use maple for that sign, use a down-cut spiral to keep the top edges crisp.

Generally, if I were doing something like this, I would use something a bit softer. Poplar carves beautifully...If you are going to paint it. Basswood is nice too.

-Brady

[stickman]

Brady,

I'm going to stain it or clear coat it. Do they make down spirals for metal. I am sure that is what this bit was for, it was a throwaway. It took a little sanding to get rid of the fuzzy, but the results were exceptionally better than the oak one. Some of the lettering needs beefed up, but other then that, BEAUTIFUL.

[stickman]

Guys,

I'm posting my home show pictures. I had an enjoyable weekend and am slowly recovering from the talking and standing.

Enjoy:
2452

[stickman]

2453

[stickman]

2454

[stickman]

I cut this out, painted it and it was one of my door prizes.


2455

[rookie432]

Great stuff Jay,
Thought I'd join you with a couple I did last year.

Here is a mini bar we cut for a industrial design student in Ohio as her senior project.
It's a mini wine bar she designed and had pre-made the arced side. I hade to fit the bar around the arc. Hand plotted then used Vector to design the casework and top.
Solid harwood White Oak/Black Walnut/and Zebrawood
Fun Fun Fun
2456
2457

[stickman]

I might have a booth at the county fair, if I do I want to build a butcher block top and engrave a logo or something into the top of it, then coat the top with epoxy...

A benchtop model would be nice to have and v-carve kids names for a couple bucks on the spot. But, that is some time down the road.

[chamcook]

Here are a couple of photos of an Electric Invisible Sponson Canoe recently launched from my shop.
ShopBot involvement included:
-Sponson (side air chamber) framing
-Keel components and final shaping
-Stem laminating jigs,stem cutting and beveling
-Coaming and canopy laminating jigs
-Console laminating jig and instrument panel cutting
-RMahogany steering wheel rim
-Aluminum motor mounts
-Wraparound seat cutting and chamfering fore and aft
-Floorboards
-Brass canopy hardware (stanchions,hinges,mounting plates,etc.
-Brass handrail nosepieces, candlestick stanchions (on rotary)
-Canopy posts (on rotary)
-Oarlock mortises
-Bulkhead components
-A whole lot of patterns
-A bunch of things I cant think of right now

[chamcook]

Another try:


2458
2459

[chamcook]

I guess this would be a good time to ask how you post an image with a decent size and a decent quality.
I took high res photos. I first reduced them to less than 4oo by 400 pixels and the played with the pixels/inch to get below 25K. I ended up with the tiny pictures above. What am I missing?
David

[mrdovey]

David...

Reduce to 256 colors and save as .gif files

Morris

[bryan]

Just finish up this cradle, red oak, for a friend, the only pieces of wood that my shopbot didn't cut or jointed, were the 38 slats, all the other peices were shaped and jointed by the bot, never had it so easy.

Bryan
Red Oak Cradle

2460 (22.7 k)

[bryan]

lets try this again
2461

[kerrazy]

Well, 3 weeks later here is our new shop sign, Hope you enjoy it!
It is made from precision board and all letters are raised prismatic letters, finished with 2 coats jay cooke primer, 2 coats Black semi gloss acrylic latex, 23K loose gold leaf and black glass smalts. Total time invested 5-6 hours.

Dale



2462

[stickman]

Dale,

That's a sweet sign. Nice. I would have thought that it would be brass, just looking at it.

Nice job!

Jay

[papadaveinwy]

Dale, once again my good friend you have done well by yourself and your group. I like the slogan remember to use it in all your ads etc. You want people to know the slogan as well as they know your company name. David in Wyoming

[kerrazy]

Thanks for the positive comments gentlemen. I owe all of it to a course I took with Jay Cooke about 3 weeks ago, and to my ShopBot and ProfileLab software.
Cheers, Dale

[gerald_d]

Nice job Dale!

What is the diameter and the depths involved? Also curious to hear a market price from all the established signmakers - I am sure that Dale is curious about this too.

[kerrazy]

Thanks Gerald,
The dimensions are 20"s in Diameter and the material 3/4" thick. The background is .25" deep with letters all having a prismatic surface.

And yes I would be very interested in pricing for such a piece. I was estimating somewhere between $400.00 and $500.00.
Thanks,
Dale

[superior]

Echo all the "Nice job Dale" comments. Curiosity question, are the letters carved (Jay is one of America's premier carvers) or computer generated? Looks like a Letterheads project, really nice work. What, if any, did you topcoat with? Final question, is the beaver hand carved or a 3D file? Full of questions, aren't I? I was wondering how long it would take for the special effects of gilding, carving, etc. to blend into the CNC way of doing things. I think it is an excellent blend, plus gives a lot more "pop" to the finished piece. If you care to give me some particulars on this, I will be happy to discuss it at my upcoming camp (March 19-20) here in Oklahoma. Joe Crumlee of Norman Sign Co. does this all the time, he is a cross between a college professor (NYU), professional photographer, professional artist, ShopBottter and an all-around good guy. I am sure he can provide you with VERY accurate pricing on this type work. I have spent two days with him lately, and still walk away muttering "what am I not doing?" to myself. I do not have his email address handy, but he is on the forum regularly. He is coming to our camp, and bringing some samples of his work. All ye who see, be prepared to be challenged. I have been in the sign business for over 30 years, he is a good as I have seen. I will have some pics on the forum of the camp for all to see. Maybe we can blend some of this together at all camps.
Sorry to see you are not attending the Jamboree, I was looking forward to meeting you. Guess I will have to journey North in August, huh.
Congrats again on a great way to promote your business. This attracts more high end customers with such quality work. Also brings A LOT more money for the job.
Finally, on a personal note, thanks again for the vacuum set up files. I appreciate it.
Doug

[kerrazy]

Hey Doug,
The letters are computer generated using a prismatic carving feature in ProfileLab, It is kind of a two step machining process. The first step is to hog out all the background, approx. a quater of an inch and then follow that with a bevel cut on the surface of the letters using a 100 degree tool.

The beaver was actually a vector line art file that I again used a two step carving technique. Hogging out the background around the beaver, and then I did an online v-carve on all the lines in the beaver. and then to give it a relief carved look I cheated and applied a shallow (.10 inch)100degree v-carve edge all along the outside of the beaver.

All in all it took me a good 1 hour to muck about with the tooling to get it just so and then of coarse a couple of sacrificial test files to see the results.

From there the piece was coated with two coats of J.C. Primer and then two coats of Black Arylic paint. I ensured I had over sprayed the black so it would get an orange peel effect resembling cast iron when completed.

From there I applied a clay powder similar to talcum powder (this prevents the gold to stick to any surface other thanit is intended to) and then Lefranc's Gold Size (half Slow and Half 12 hour) and very carefully applied this to the surface of the letters and the beaver and other features ensuring to not let it go down the walls of these surfaces( this was about a 2 and a half hour process for me as I am not that steady with a quill yet). It took about 5-6 hours for the size to set up and then I applied the loose leaf 23K gold with a guilders tip and burnished each letter using a guilders burnishing brush. After all this was completed I applied some Smalts Honey with a touch of black paint to the background surrounding the beaver and then applied the glass smalts to this surface.

It was something I was very overwhelmed by until I was given instruction by Jay as it is a very impressive feature (guilding) when done well, but I have read many an article from people who had problems so I set aside trying it until I could watch a master do it.
I too have had a couple chats with Joe on the forum and yes he is a very intriguing man, as with all, he certainly brings many strengths to the shopbot community.

Any more info Doug don't hesitate to send me an email, my computer and pone are always open!

Thanks,
Dale

[Support]

test

[kerrazy]

Here is a sign made with precision board and I used Gerber mask 2 to help in finishing it. It worked real well, as you can see by the crispness of the pinstripe border.
Dale



2463

[rjguinn@optonline.net]

Dale,
That's a great looking sign! I've used 2 different Avery masks which did not cut very well.The cut edges were frayed & lacked the necessary crispness.Have you compared the Gerber 2 to any other brand of masking material & are there any tricks to successfully using this product?
Thanks,
Jeff

[kerrazy]

Yes I have tried a years worth of testing of other masks, such as avery and other 3M products with little or no success.
This product is actually made by 3M for gerber and so far it is the perfect mask for this task.
I finish the piece as if it it will be displayed outside ( 2 coats primer, 2 coats acrylic latex paint). I let the primer and paints dry between coats usually 1 - 2 hours, then the last coat of acrylic I let dry overnight. I then apply the mask and squeegee out air bubbles.
Then onto machining. When I am done machining I coat the carved surfaces with the same colour as the blank started ( this seals the edges of the mask and then I do not have to worry about edge bleed) Then apply 2 coats of primer, 2 coats of final acrylic to carved surface. I sand off the surface of the mask to reduce the tension around the letters, for easier removal. then remove the mask. And Voila insta sign!!!
Dale

[rjguinn@optonline.net]

Dale,
Thanks for the info.I looked on the Gerber website,but can't find a listing for Gerber 2 paint mask.Is it vinyl like the Avery masks?
Thanks,
Jeff

[kerrazy]

Jeff,
I looked around as well and frankly I don't know where I found the info about it, But yes it is similar to an Avery vinyl mask, but it is made by 3M corp for gerber.
I will keep digging around and see if I can find some info.
Dale

[stickman]

Hey guys,

I wanted to post an update to the Maltese Cross.


2464

Jay Mack
StickMan WoodWorking

[kerrazy]

Looks Good, Jay, Now for the real work....Painting it. I would love to see it completed.
Dale

[stickman]

Dale,

I've been using the MDF as a test cut, I turn around and cut them into the maple and clear coat them, high gloss. They turn out great. The last one I did in maple I put about five to six light coats on it. Nice finish.

I have thought about finishing these MDF ones with paint. Need to find someone with a soft hand. Or me and lots and lots of practice.

[ed_conley]

Here is a project I did from PartWizard (that's not me in the picture). It's a fireplace surround approximate size is 70"x50" with contoured curve of approx 6" radius. You can do simple 3D even in PartWizard!

Sorry, having trouble attaching the picture.

[toys]

Does anyone know where I could get a sample 3d parts file of a rose?

I was hoping that the shopbot ftp site would have something, but I can't seem to log onto it.
Does anyone know if it still exists?

My parents are down here in Florida and I thought it would be nice to cut my mother a rose, but lacking any real 3d software I have to see if there are any out their that someone might shair.

[halmande]

Hi,
I purchased my first shopbot in April 04, attached are samples of some of the projects I have worked on.

The following represent Old Islamic and Arabic designs, which are rich in patterns and style.... I have used Profiling, V-bit carving, and 2.5 D projection relief.

Hope you like it.

Regards,

Mandeel

2465

[halmande]

Part 2

The following represent Old Islamic and Arabic designs, which are rich in patterns and style.... I have used Profiling in the following Roof top WBP Plywood sheets, using two sheets of 3/4" glued togther.
Hope you like it.

Regards,

Mandeel

2466

[woody]

Mandeel
Very nice! What software did you use to draw and mill?

[gerald_d]

Great stuff Mandeel! Hope to see a lot more of you on this Forum. Welcome!

[Brady Watson]

Mandeel,
Very nice work!

-Brady

[fleinbach]

Mandeel

Great job. Do you have any close ups of that detail work?

[mikejohn]

Hani
To see the work you are producing after only 6 months or so with the ShopBot gives great encouragement for us 'soon-to-be's'.
Really impressive stuff.
..Mike

[paco]

BRAVO!!! BRAVO!!

[stickman]

Hani,

Awesome work. Great to see how well you've picked up on the ShopBot in six months. Great work, look forward to seeing more of your work

Impressive!

Jay

[jsfrost]

Hani,
Impressive work, and something I would not have thought of. Proof yet again, with the imagination and creativity of a competant operator, the Shopbot can do almost anything.

Jim Frost

[gerald_d]

Hani Al Mandeel, (what is the correct short form for your name?), I see from your profile that you are using a PRN 96. Is this an old model? I too would like to see some close-up pictures of the detail, please.

[halmande]

Hi Everyone,

Thank you for appreciating my work. I am impressed with your interest. I am an architecture school dropout who has changed his career in to the capital market field (Business). I work for the Central Bank in Bahrain. My short name is Hani. I use Artcam and Coral Draw as my design softwares; I use a PRT 96 purchased in April 04. However, I have a small carpentry family Business with few carpenters to help me achieve my projects.

I do not know how I could post close ups of my design work. I have many Projects that I could share with you; however, I am limited with space on this forum.

I tell you the truth; I come from the Middle East, specifically Arabia. The region of wars and hate propagandas! However, this region is full of emotions and architectural style that helps me a lot with my work. Geometry and patterns are the basis of Islamic and Arabic designs. It is like "jamming" or music improvisation, if you get what I am saying. It is the order of shapes and "Harmony".

Well, it was very difficult for me to bring these designs into realty without the use of a CNC router (Shopbot), research, and the help of carpenters.

Please feel free to ask me of how to do specific designs or machining strategies.

Attached in separate threads you will find few of my work pictures….I will keep you posted…

Thanks again,
Hani

2467

[halmande]

the Second closeup pic
2468

[halmande]

Hi,
This is a kitchen cabinet door with sand blasted glass background. The cabinet has an orange warm light inside each door.. You can imagine the effect.... I told you... It's music to the eye.
2469

[halmande]

This is only 4mm veneered walnut sheet backed by glass and Walnut MDF Veneered Boarder.
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[halmande]

2471

"My little baby's room"

I made this chair out of 1/2" plywood layers all the way. I have made many objects and pieces of furniture using MDF and plywood...The concept is to think 3D and slice the 3D object into 2D flat parts that can be cut on the shopbot and put together (glued together) to complete the 3D shape..
Sometimes you would need to grind or file the object.

I learned this from a sculpturing tools company owner in Australia.


Regards,

Hani

[paco]

WOW,WOW and wow!!! (Out of words...)

[fleinbach]

Hani,

Thanks for the close ups. Your work is spectacular. I hope to eventualy incorporate this kind of detail in a few projects I am planning as soon as I get some time.

[dingwall]

That's really impressive Hani. Thanks for sharing.

[beacon14]

Hani,

Your work is amazing. I have not seen that level of detail and craftsmanship coming from a ShopBot. How much hand work was required once the machine had done its part?

David B.

[john_r]

Hani,
Very impressive craftsmanship.
I look forward to seeing more of your fine work.

-John

[halmande]

2472

David,
Your work is fantastic. My concept is Ornamental design based on separate parts just like when you put a cupboard together. However, I work on each part separately to achieve an overall design. You do not need a lot of handwork. You would need a bit of finishing and stain selection. Attached you will find how I cut the plywood chair before putting it all together. However, this file has few part mirror mistakes.

Please select a picture that I have posted and I can explain exactly how I have achieved each part and what strategy I have used and what bit size and type.

Hani

[hespj]

Hani, looking at the close up of your kitchen cabinet door, you seem to have very crisp sharp corners to the cutouts. Do you get this crispness with a very small diameter router cutter, or are you cleaning up the corners with a chisel afterwards?

John

[halmande]

Hi John,

I use three strategies. The first one is to space the parts enough for the tool to move freely without intersecting with other cut parts (spacing the cutout parts @ double the width of the bit). The second is that I use a 2 mm (0.080") short End Mill bit that does not tend to vibrate, but enough to cut through the 4 mm (0.157") sheet. The third is that I use a profiling toolpath strategy because Area Clearance toolpath strategy will take a long time to cut. I cut at the speed of 3 inch per second. However, if the parts are too small, some of the pieces will get damaged. I then will have to cut them separately and glue them again. To fix this problem let the protruding vector part be of a 0.25" width. According to my experience, this works fine with me.

Rgds,

Hani

[gerald_d]

A 2mm bit (diameter, not radius?) cutting through 4mm deep at 3" (75mm) per second...... How deep for each cut pass?

I think that it is time to plan a "Hadj" to Manama

[halmande]

He..He...he

I do a 25% of bit size as stepdown...I found that at higher speeds the tool would not vibrate around the piece much. I usually cut @ 2-3 inches per second...

You think there is something wrong with my strategy!! I know it's fast.. but it works..The problems I get is in the vibration of the tool, and to get ride of the vibration you need a high speed and more pass overs.

[halmande]

2473

Hi Gerald,

attached you will find my setup for Artcam 2mm tool:

it says:
Diameter 2mm
Stepdown 0.5 mm
Stepover 12% (0.24 mm)
Spindle speed 21000
Feed rate 3 inches/second
Plunge rate 2 inches/ second

I am not an expert in this stuff. but my trail and error led me to this.

[gerald_d]

Hani, I did not think there was anything wrong with it. It is all fine, and it is good to see that someone keeps an open mind about finding the parameters that works the best for a particular job. It was clear to me that you have a small step-down for every pass, but I could hardly believe that you used such a small tool. Thanks for the extra info.

[Brady Watson]

Hani,
How do you create your patterns? From clip art or from scratch?

-Brady

[halmande]

2474

2475

Brady,

I have checked your website and your work is just outstanding and out of this world. To create patterns, you will not need to recreate the wheel of course. What you would need to do is try to find arabesque,Celtic, Victorian, Indian or whatever clip art and vector designs. An excellent source would be Fotosearch.com and specifically the Aridi collection, which is a source that I relay on heavily (http://www.fotosearch.com/ARI115/ar-01c/) this link would take you to the design that I have used for the door shown below. However, I would play around with the design by breaking the project into parts and work on each part separately. Also, I would find a matching design or create one to complement the work, such as the casing boarders and the side parts. Then I put everything together and produce the over all look. I use different strategies for each part as you have seen in the examples I have provided.

Note that there are many Old world designs. However, I prefer the Arabesque due to the simplicity of the complex looking artwork that you would require when using a CNC router. In addition, you might need to clean up the vector Artwork because these are scanned original artworks, which are then transformed into vector files.

Well, if you want to create a piece yourself you would need to start with one corner of the design, for example lets say that you want to create the square shown in the picture attached.. You would need to divide the square into four equal parts (four small squares). For instance, start with the top right square part and create the design of your interest then copy and paste a mirror image to the left top square part joint the two and the copy the top joined part and paste a mirror image of it to the bottom and join the two together. Using Aridi designs will help you grasp on the concept.

Rgds,

Hani

[Brady Watson]

Thanks Hani...more stuff to follow on the site after the 'show room' is complete.

Thanks for sharing the design source. I have some of them already, it's just transforming them into vector format that is sometimes a real challenge.

I've been messing around with some Guilloché designs, like on the back of money, passports & watch cases. I'm still designing...hoping to cut soon.

-Brady

[halmande]

Brady,
can you provide me with the link of "Guilloché designs", this is the first time I hear of the name. I always work on part of the complete design as I explained (one small square) and then copy,mirror, and paste. It is much easier doing it this way. However sometimes I face the problem of the vector being reversed. I mean when I try to cut outside a line, the machine cuts inside the line.

[Brady Watson]

Hani,
Here are a few examples of Guilloché Patterns (http://www.maa.org/editorial/mathgames/mathgames_02_09_04.html)

Another example would be a Spirograph (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00000DMD6/103-9605833-6911042)

Here is a Rose Engine (http://www.rgmwatches.com/engine.html), a lathe of sorts designed to produce these designs. It's quickly becoming a lost art.

Still playing at the moment...will post when I have something worth showing.

-Brady

[halmande]

Brady,
These mathmatical Designs are just fun to play around with. I am sure we could get softwares that would create such patterns.

Hani

[edcoleman]

Hani:

Gorgeous work! For you, and all others interested, there is a nice celtic knot design resource at:

http://www.clanbadge.com/knots.htm

it is a truetype font that has celtic knot "primitives" (for lack of a better term) and will allow you to quickly build knot patterns. Also, there is a pretty good library of knots that come with the fonts.

The designs are not quite as complex as those in your pics below, but I've found them useful.

-Ed

[halmande]

Ed,

Thanks for the information and your appreciation...

Hani

[bill.young]

Hey Brady,

One of the sample projects in the works for the Project Wizard is a designer that generates Spirograph part files. It should be in the beta in a week or so, along with a stepped scarf designer that lets you create custom stepped scarfs in just about any size, position, and orientation you need.

Bill

[gerald_d]

Hi Bill

Would your stepped scarf designer have a facility to add dowel holes? (Like we do (http://www.scapenotes.com/mdc/messages/5/23.html))

[bill.young]

Hey Gerald,

I use alignment pins like that alot for parts like rudders and frames but have never used them with scarfs...do you drill them all the way through or only part-way so that the dowels are "blind"? They would sure be easier to use if they are cut all the way through, but if they're blind there's less chance of leaving a bump from the end-grain of the dowel when you're sanding the scarf.

[mikejohn]

Gerald
would something like this work, eliminating the protruding dowels?

2476
....Mike

[gerald_d]

Bill, the holes go right through. If you look at that link, you see mention of a jig board - the dowels go all the way through the joint into the the board. I suppose that our clients could use softer dowels, or pre-cut the length if the sanding bump was a problem to them. I think they normally cover the joint area with fiberglass anyway. (An experienced & careful touch with an angle grinder will take off the dowel bumps cleanly) Also, having the holes right through allows bolting (plastic) instead of clamping. The holes are not "drilled" - they are CNC'ed in while the scarf is being cut.

Mike, good thinking. But remember that you can't cut all those sharp inside corners with a round cutter, and the remaining "fillets" will cause headaches. Plus your joint is free to slide in one direction. Unless you have dovetailed the fingers......

[mikejohn]

Gerald
I just knew a square cutter would come in useful

That is what is good about the forum. Showing where the thinking is wrong before wasting time and material.
.....Mike

[paul_n]

Hani.....
Here is a little (free) program, that will allow you to design knots, and even output them as a 3D file.

http://www.abbott.demon.co.uk/knots.html

Really enjoyed your work !!!

Paul

[halmande]

Paul,

Thank you for sharing your link...

Hani

[stickman]

I worked last night for a few moments with the celtic knot program. I like it, its amazing the output that it gives out. I've got a client that is wanting to engrave celtic designs on some trim. I had spent some time "trying" to draw them.

GREAT PROGRAM...

[mrdovey]

Hani...

I grew up in Dhahran and Abqaiq (about 40 miles from Dhahran) and don't think I ever saw any work in the eastern province more beautiful than what you've posted here - nice job!

Can you suggest any books for learning about this type of Arab/Islamic design?

Morris

[jf_allie]

For Hani and anyone interested in symmetry,
here are a few links that you might find interesting.

http://home.ca.inter.net/%7Esvincent/default.html
http://artlandia.com/products/SymmetryWorks/
http://www.learningforallages.com/KaleidoMania.htm
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0262690888/102-9721345-9140134?v=glance
http://www.geometer.dk/tess/16engelsk/idx16.htm

enjoy!

Jean-François

[mrdovey]

Jean-François...

Thanks! I've been fascinated by the possibilities for art with the ShopBot. Perfect symmetry is always eye-catching; and I find some of the "not quite" symmetry of celtic and middle-eastern designs haunting - sometimes like a piece of music that plays over and over in the mind and can't be put away...

...Morris

[paco]

Thanks for sharing Jean-François!

By the way, you forgot to included your address and phone number last time you send me a e-mail about your camp report (was interesting)... I did go to Montréal but was'nt able to reach you! Could be fun to meet!?

[halmande]

Hi Morris,

The Islamic and Arabic designs have many forms (follow the timeline for different periods) as shown on the following link: http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/orna/hd_orna.htm.

Moreover, the following link will provide you with a place where you could find a reproduction of such designs: http://www.fotosearch.com/ARI115/ar-01c/. However, you could also find books on the topic on Amazon.com such as the following:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0500274290/ref=pd_sxp_elt_l1/102-2218330-0452938

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0486236587/qid=1101463838/sr=8-2/ref=pd_csp_2/102-2218330-0452938?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0486274772/ref=pd_bxgy_img_2/102-2218330-0452938?v=glance&s=books

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0486272117/ref=pd_bxgy_img_2/102-2218330-0452938?v=glance&s=books


I believe that you will need to do some research and you will succeed hopefully.

Thanks,

Hani

[mrdovey]

Hani...

Thanks for the refs - I'll follow up as time permits. I'm thinking of making a box similar to this (a gift) as my next non-business project:


2477

As you might guess, I'm partial to the geometric designs.

...Morris

[Gary Spear (Unregistered Guest)]

This is a project for a restaurant chain.
My daughteer is getting married and I would like to make a hope chest for her. Does anyone have plans for one of these? I designed my own and am ready to start, but thought I would ask before I commit to my design. Thanks in advance for any help.

[paco]

Thanks Hani!
This one link I found especialy interesting: http://www.fotosearch.com/ARI115/ar-01c/
...have you bought any of thoses designs? Are they goods (as vectors)?

[halmande]

Hi Paco,
well, the vectors would sometimes need adjustments (intersecting lines,etc). I would also make my own designs such as the attached wall display unit picture.

Hani



2478

[paco]

You talented!! This is great job Hani!!
I wonder how such small details hold on the machining?! Maybe hard wood?... or from your delicate stepdown strategie; which is the setting I use too when doing such intricate details...

[mikejohn]

Paco
I've made a .dxf file of the pattern you like.
Here's a picture of it.

2479
Not a lot of good, I fell foul to upload limit

....Mike

[mikejohn]

This is 1/8th of the pattern.
It is mirrored, them mirrored again, or rotated (I used a bit of both)

2480
Sorry, this is as big as I can get it!
.....Mike

[mikejohn]

One small thing.
Does anyone have any suggestions how we woud be affected by copyright if this was carved in wood (or some other material)? The original looks like a tile maybe. The photograph says it is royalty free, but has an imprinted copyright message.
I used the photograph to make my .dxf file, so did I infringe copyright?
Here (http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=2&post=3171#POST3171) is a thread which looks at copyright.
If I put the .dxf file into the public domain, can I be liable?
....Mike

[gerald_d]

Mike, mail me the pic that you wanted to place here first, the one that was too big - I'll try to manipulate it a bit for you.

[mikejohn]

2481
Gerald solved the problem

.....Mike

[halmande]

Great Job Mike,

You are getting the hang of it. Regarding copyright infringement, you do not have to post your files and try to work a step further by changing the pattern pieces. The arabesque design is the art of creating a pattern that is repeating just like music. For example in music you would start with a drum pattern, then add a bass line, then add some chords, and finally add a melody. However, everything is confined by time.

With design, the time is your space, or the size of the area, or shape of the design.

Good luck.

Hani

[paco]

Hey Mike! What did you use to trace it?

[mikejohn]

Paco,
AutoCad 2000.
Took a couple of hours.
.........Mike

[gerald_d]

Mike, when we trace in AutoCad, we use Arcs and not Curves. Each Arc is one line of code in the .sbp file. The standard command for us is Draw>Arc>Continue and this draws a new arc tangential to the previous through the point that the cursor is clicked on.

Do you have another way?

[mikejohn]

Gerald
What I did was to try and reproduce the photograph as close as possible, so I used a combination of circles, arcs and polylines (spline).
I realised that I could get a much better .dxf file to create toolpaths by using minimum points, and creating shapes which are very similar, but not exactly, as the picture. In places, I realised a small 'blobby' shape in the photograph is probably a flower or something.
As you know, I am not yet used to drawing to produce toolpaths. I guess if you can construct a perfect spiral (using the bezier curves of Arc/Continue) then you can construct any curved shape.
I have created methods of creating accurate drawings in the minimum time, but I do not know yet if this is what is wanted for the ShopBot file.
The .dxf file for the pattern below converted to .sbp ok.
Does this help, or are you asking something different.
In your experience, do you find AutoCad techniques work well in other CAD programs?
.........Mike

[gerald_d]

I think that we are not quite on the same wavelength. Let's work backwards......

A ShopBot can only execute 2 types of moves - straight lines, and arcs of fixed radius. If you feed splines, ellipses, spirals into a ShopBot, it will chop those things into either straight lines or arcs. Sometimes it chops fine (lots of command lines) other times it chops coarse (poor resolution).

So, when we trace something, we only use the type of lines that the ShopBot readily understands, and where there is no other judgement call other than our own. (with very few exceptions). We trace exclusively with straight lines and circular arcs. For this we find the Arc > Continue command extremely useful - it becomes even easier than using a spline.

I was wondering if you had tried to work with the Arc-Continue before? And, since you have a lot of AutoCad experience, with aerial photography and maps, have you any other tricks for tracing lines from photos?

[mikejohn]

Gerald
The drawing of maps is now pretty automatic, but from very specialised software.
Autocad is used for pre-planning photo-centres, and then seeing where the pictures were actually taken.
The co-ordinates for the first come via Excel and scripts, the second from downloaded satellite information and then into scripts.
AutoCad is used for presentations, and here theres a lot of input.
Where we put information on top of photographs, we use digitising tablets.
I design and make automata, and its here I will be looking to use the ShopBot. But it's not tracing photographs, it's unique mechanical design each time. I have re-designed some parts because of the needs of CNC cutting.
So, sorry, the Arc/Continue method seems the best for shorter shopbot file.
.....Mike

[mikejohn]

Gerald
In aerial survey you can produce digital terrain models (3D meshes) to an accuracy of 10cm in 5000 metres,from pairs of photography. It would be nice to create 3D models for the ShopBot this way, but the software and hardware is many 1000's of dollars

....Mike

[jthelen]

Mike, I have Rams trace. It has the ability to auto trace and then hide the picture and clean up the lines. You can reduce the number points, move the center points of arc's. You can click on any point and just drag it. I do some relief cut signs with oriental characters. I used to use AutoCAD and it would take hours per character. Rams trace auto traces in seconds and I can clean it up in minutes not hours.

You can download a demo at www.rams3d.com (http://www.rams3d.com) but you can't save the files in the demo version. If you want to send me a high rez picture of your pattern, I will try it and tell you how long it took.

[hespj]

" For this we find the Arc > Continue command extremely useful"

If you draw any arc, then press Space-Bar, Return or Right Click (depending on your config), arc is restarted. Pressing Space bar, Return or Right Clicking again starts an arc from the end of the previous one. Select an end point and you'll see this new arc is tangent to the end of the previous one.

It's a bit quicker than selecting "arc continue".

John

[mikejohn]

Thanks John,
I'm guessing that Gerald used the full command Draw>Arc>Continue for clarity. The shortcut keys is, of course, the way you would normally work.
....Mike

[gerald_d]

Aha, the thread has been turned in the right direction now. Thank You!

Quick ways to scroll to the bottom of a thread:
1. Use the "End" button on your keyboard, or
2. Click on any of the
2482 icons that are in each post.

[fleinbach]

I guess we'll have to find something else to get confused about now.