Pictures taken during today's router change

[gerald_d]

It was time to increase our router size to 1800Watt (what most of you think is over 3 HP). Took a collection of photos during the changeover - had a lot of problems with the sun shining directly on the window. If you have any questions, please ask.


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Pic. #1
See the computer box on the left of the flap (with auto air cleaner on top). Red Emergency Stop to the right.



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Pic. #2
The four holes above the flap are the vent air inlets going through the carpet-lined silencer box



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Pic. #3



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Pic. #4



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Pic. #5
The vent outlets are NOT opposite the inlets.



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Pic. #6
Welded rectangular tube table with thick rubber blocks under the feet.


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Pic. #7



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Pic. #8



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Pic. #9



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Pic. #10



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Pic. #11



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Pic. #12
see the ground wire with the yellow lug screwed to the z-slide....


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Pic. #13
....and then to the y-car.....


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Pic. #14
....and then to the gantry, and then to the table, and then to the back of the SB controller - all connected in series.


Then it was time for the Makita 3612C:


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Pic. #15



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Pic. #16



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Pic. #17



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Pic. #18



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Pic. #19



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Pic. #20



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Pic. #21



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Pic. #22
I suppose the time has come to add the y-car hold-downs!

[stickman]

Gerald,

I like how you've put your bot into its own "control" enviroment. I'd love to have that type of setup. One day I plan on having that. As you come into the lobby / office of the shop, my shopbot will be behind a large glass window. That way customers and clients can see it in operation safely and quietly.

What are the four holes in your table for?

Thanks for the pictures! How do you get them all in the same post?

Jay

[gerald_d]

Hi Jay

This post (http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=27&post=4034#POST4034) should explain the 8 holes in the table.

22 pics in one post was a gamble, but I carefully checked that no pic was bigger than 25kB or 400x400 pixel - it just had to work!
Oh, and you normally have to upload everything within 5 minutes, but we do have broadband now.

[djhazeleger@bellsouth.net]

Gerald, I'm curious as to what the white electrical box mounted to your z axis purpose. It looks like a motor is mounted to cover.

[gerald_d]

Hi Dirk

The white part is our standard industrial-quality electrical outlet. Normally mounted on workshop/garage walls for plugging in 230V 15amp appliances. It has a rocker switch on the cover as well. You can see more in Pic1,2 and 5 (on the wall on far left, with appliance cord plugged in) and Pic4 (on wall, below window, nothing plugged in)

Our plugs, on the end of our appliance cords, are quite big, and are the British standard 18amp plug. What you are seeing is simply the black router cord plugged into the white "box".

[dvanr]

Hi Gerald,

Great pics and great ideas!

The bracket suddenly made me realize something.

Shopbot asks that you specify in your order what you are using , router or spindle, so they can ship appropriate hardware. I am assuming for the router they mean the round Porter Cable ( USA only)and that a clamping holder gets shipped.

I'm going to assume (again) that if your in an other country you are better off ordering the "spindle" option and fabricating a bracket as you did to mount a "square" router.

DvanR

[gerald_d]

Dick, I don't think that there is a big difference between Porter Cable and spindle options. We weren't asked the question at the time, and we got something that looked like it may be the PC option. ie. a channel screwed to the z-slide and a big hose clamp. My guess is that for the spindle option, they simply remove the channel and hose clamp from the package - I don't think there is any difference to the z-slide. We drilled new holes in the z-slide to hold either our Metabo die-grinder, or the new Makita router. In pic12, while the Metabo was still in place, you can see one unused hole in the z-slide (just to the left of the grinder, light through from back) that originally held the PC channel.

By the way, that bracket is mainly a piece of bent 10mm thick plate. The weld that you see in the corner on pic 15 was only used to "tighten" the 90 degree angle - after welding on the two lugs at the back which "opened" the 90 degree angle. (The two lugs are for a later dust extractor foot - hooking the springs into them is a temporary measure)

[stickman]

Gerald,

Look forward to seeing your dust extraction foot. My shopbot is surfacing the table as we speak and my dust collection foot is Cr*p. So I am staying out of the shop, checking on it momentarily.

I would like to know what the size of the room is that you've got your shopbot encased in.

Jay

[gerald_d]

The outside dimensions are 4.24m X 3.01m (13'11" X 9'10.5"). The walls are 16mm (5/8") MDF on a 100mm (4") wide frame. There is no inner skin, the MDF is outside only. Doubt if there will ever be an inner skin, because normal conversation is fine outside the room. We were surprised at how well a single skin of 16mm MDF reduced the noise.

The SB does not stand in the center of the room. More space is given where the most walking is - it is placed 120mm (5") further along the x-axis and about 40mm (1.5") further along the y-axis.

In pics 6 & 14, you can see that our stepper motors don't have gearboxes. They are less than 100mm (4") long. This would influence the dimensions in the y-direction for walking around the x-motors.

100mm (4") wide framing may seem excessive for the room. But we did that because of the suction created by the window fan (you really have to pull to get the door open). And because we sometimes lean a huge load of boards against the walls.

[hespj]

Gerald, thanks for the pictures. It's helped me visualise these machines a little better before buying.

"It was time to increase our router size to 1800Watt (what most of you think is over 3 HP)."

!!?! I was going to get a 3.25HP PC with the ShopBot. I assumed 3.25HP was about 2400Watts. I now think I'll buy a cheaper, easily replacable 1800 or 1900W router locally (UK).

"The outside dimensions are 4.24m X 3.01m (13'11" X 9'10.5")."

With, I assume, an 8'x4' SB?

Thanks,

John

[gerald_d]

Hi John,

The power ratings is all in the marketing. The big hand-held routers are called 3.25HP in the USA and the same thing is called 1800 Watt in Europe, Asia and Autralasia. From the Volts and Amps used by the HorsePower routers, it can clearly be seen they are the same as the 1800 Watt routers. See this thread. (http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/messages/29/3478.html)

Yes, it is a standard 8x4 ShopBot PRT96.

[bill.young]

Hey Dick (a little way down the thread),

I believe that when you order a z -axis for a spindle there are some extra springs added to compensate for the extra weight of the spindle. I'm not sure about other changes...I'd drop a line to ShopBot before you make that decision.

Bill

[gerald_d]

After some days of using the "3.25 HP" router, we love our Metabo GE700 (previously 7141) (http://www.metabousa.com/metabo/us/us/produkte/diegrinders/ge700_6_06303_42.html) even more. The big Makita makes a lot of blown dust and noise, and is too big to reach into deep parts.

Looks like the next urgent project is a quick-change bracket to swap the whole router motor quickly.......

[jay_p]

Gerald,
So you were using the Metabo before instead of a router? Are you restricted to a 1/4" collet? In looking at the website, it appeared that was the only option.
I do like the long nose on the die grinder. It looks like it would add a lot of reach.

Jay

[gerald_d]

Yes Jay, 1/4" and 6mm only.

[hespj]

Gerald, thanks for the info on US HP v's Euro Watts. Very interesting.

That Metabo looks just the job for 3D work. Good all round clearance for reaching into awkward holes and steep slopes. Another (unasked) question answered.

Thanks,

John

[gerald_d]

John, from your website I see your interest in building boats. This (http://www.dixdesign.com/oneill1.htm) is what we do from time to time, and that Metabo with a 6mm cutter coped very well.

(PS. the second pic on that linked page was done with AutoCad LT. Another myth exploded - ACad LT can work in 3D)

[hespj]

Gerald, that would be one of the things I would hope to do with a SB.

Do you nest those bulkhead shapes onto the plywood sheets by hand (in CAD), or is there software for this?

John

[gerald_d]

John, there is nesting software for that, but nothing that is anywhere near affordable.

We nest by hand in AutoCad - a simple enough process for boat parts. Plus, there is "manual brainpower" input that I wouldn't trust over to software - such as deciding where to split/join a bulkhead so that it fits onto 8x4 sheets of marine ply.

[spektr]

Re Picture 17. Gerald. Really nice mount you made. I did notice that it doesn't look like you used self locking fasteners to bolt it together. I would suggest that you safety wire the bolts so they stay put. Scott.

[gerald_d]

Thanks for the tip Scott. Those slotted cheesehead screws are temporary. They were the only 5mm screws of sufficient length that I had lying around. Still have to do some work in that area regarding:
- air blast deflector
- quick-change mounting (big router / small router / drill)
- dust collection shoe.

[gerald_d]

Okay, the air deflector and the quick change are done. Changing from one router to the other takes 10 seconds. Only one bolt (10mm or 3/8") to be loosened. The z-slide now has 2 dowel pins 80mm apart, on the centerline, one above the other. The bolt is exactly between the two dowels. Look at the mounting face of the adaptor plate on the small router lying on the table.

There are now many surplus holes which make the pictures hard to read - but they do reduce weight! :-)

I have a jig with a copy of the dowel arrangement for seeting the centers of the various tools so that they coincide with each other - changing routers does not change x,y-settings. The jig would also be useful when we have to design an adaptor for a third tool, like a drill.


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[spektr]

Nice looking work. A couple thoughts about designing removable features. I would consider using Ball end pins. Less wear on the fixture when changing stuff. Also consider using hardened bushings to hold the replacable pins. This way you never lose indexing of any fixtures when you need to replace a pin. Consider using a shoulder bolt instead of a hex bolt and use the OD to support the vert loads instead of the jig pins, it will last much longer. If any of this isn't clear, please drop me a note and I'll try to do a better job. Scott.

[gerald_d]

All clear Scott - just using stuff that I have lying around.

[mikejohn]

Gerald
Your setup is very appealing, I like a lot of the different aspects.
After a lot of thought and consideration, I've settled on buying the benchtop,(even though hanging around has cost me $400, thank heavens for the weak $).
I will be cutting 4mm and 6mm B/B birch ply, and 15mm soft pine.
With the idea of a quick change jig, my production speeds will be ample for my needs.
The plywood will be cut with very small bits, 2mm or 3mm. The softwood can be cut with a 6mm bit.
Will the Metabo GE700 cope well with this requirement?
As it is only the Benchtop, what is your opinion of making a sealed cabinet for the machine, with either end and front openings, rather than the complete room?
Would dust extraction be easier than the full room size?
Any advice on extraction fan size? Would you advise an 'input' fan, or rely on a baffled inflow system like your room?
Why is your computer inside the room, instead of being outside away from the dust?
In another thread, you talked of needing no dust collection system, now your making one. What changed your mind?
Lots of questions,I'm afraid, but it is because you seem to have lots of the answers!
Thanks, as always, for your input. When you were noticeable by your absence a couple of weeks back, I was concerned we had lost your wisdom.

....Mike

[gerald_d]

Will the Metabo GE700 cope well with this requirement? It will cope extremely well provided that the cutting diameter of your bit is normally 8mm - 10mm or less. We can never "bog down" the Metabo with a 6mm bit in soft wood. Plus the Metabo will make less noise and blow around much less dust.

As it is only the Benchtop, what is your opinion of making a sealed cabinet for the machine, with either end and front openings, rather than the complete room? It is hard for me to visualise working with a "benchtop". It is important for us to walk around for clamping stuff and installing/removing jigs/scrap/product.

Any advice on extraction fan size? Would you advise an 'input' fan, or rely on a baffled inflow system like your room? The room/box must be under negative pressure, therefore the fan must suck out of the room/box. With our weather we are lucky that we can feed the room with non-heated air and exhaust to the oustside atmosphere - you may not be so lucky. Your may have a heated shop, or your neighbours might not like the dust. Remember that the fan in our window is not meant for dust-collection - it is only to ensure a supply of breathing air and keep the dust from spreading to the rest of the workshop. Our fan is 450mm and we only appreciate its size in mid-summer. Mostly, a 300mm would have been okay.

Why is your computer inside the room, instead of being outside away from the dust? Only the keyboard and monitor are on the dirty side - all the rest is in the filtered cabinet with the auto air-cleaner on top.

In another thread, you talked of needing no dust collection system, now your making one. What changed your mind? And we stopped making one again...... The guitar neck job needs a lot of hogging with big cutters, producing a ton of sawdust. Because of our fondness for clamps/screws/bolts/jigs, we cannot figure a universal foot that will find its way around all of these. Plus handle our grinder + router options. The guys doing smooth sheets on vacuum tables have less demands on the dust foot. Anyway, because the room contains the dust so well, our maid (seriously) dons a dust mask and ear protection every Thurday morning and shovels/sweeps at least a wheely bin full of sawdust out of there.

[gerald_d]

Does a new post turn the thread in a the right direction?

Edited to add: Unfortunately not.

[fleinbach]

It's going in the right direction now

[jemelby]

Gerald;

What's that your holding in your picture? Edelveis?

[gerald_d]

Ice-cream, on the Danube river near Vienna

[mikejohn]

Boring fact #1
If you drive fron Romania to the UK, you cross the Danube 5 times. (without ice cream at this time of year)
I've just done it, 5600 kms (3500 miles for the uninitiated) in 8 days.
I'm too old for this!
...Mike