3D illustration needed.

[gundog]

I need an illustartion of a fairly simple 3D part made for a patent application. I upgraded to Aspire lately but I can't seem to draw this part do any of you have this capability? I am willing to pay someone to do this for me I need it done right away. I make the part on my SB and I have a 2D file but I just can't figure out how to draw it in 3D. I tried Google sketchup but I can't get it to run on my computer.

The part is a flat rectangle part with a dovetail groove running through it. At the bottom of the dovetail groove there are a couple profiles and a couple pockets.

I would rather not explain any further on the net but we can discuss it by phone, email or PM.

Thanks Mike

[knight_toolworks]

I will be doing battle with aspire too I just paid for it.
but from what I have seen you can't draw undercuts in it.
is this a 3d drawing really or 2d if you don't include the dovetail?

[gerryv]

Michael, May I suggest getting a signed non-disclosure agreement anytime you do this. Even if you trust the person, it becomes a question of whether it could be classified as a public disclosure, which negates your right to patent and/or opens the door for a "competitor" to later annul your protection. It may be less of an issue if the part in question is not, in itself, the intended invention or a novel and inventive aspect of it but I'm not a patent attorney or agent so don't take my word for it ;-)

[steve_g]

Michael,
My experience with the patent office is that illustrations used for patent applications must be done in a particular “style”. This style is a craft or art unique to the patent process and is best done by an experienced patent artist. I have submitted my drawings to an artist to help him better understand the concept of what I was claiming and let him do the artwork. If I remember right the artist charged $250.00, which was the least of the expenses incurred in getting a good tight well written patent. Good Luck!

Steve

[Dusty Knobel]

Michael,
I attended the Shopbot gathermazoo in your shop and am in Olympia. I do not know the details of patent drawings, but there are some howtos on the web and I taught technical drafting - if I can help , contact me. 360.866.0544. www.knobelwoodworks.com (knobelwoodworks.com)
Olympia.
Dusty

[Greybarn]

Email me at Greybarn@myfairpoiont.net. I am sure I can draw that for you. I use a solid modelling program called Solid Edge. I use it for drawing interiors of yachts so I am sure I can handle your needs and that we can work out some simple fee.
Regards
Peter

[widgetworks_unlimited]

I have used Alibre Design to create patent drawings. Several ShopBotter's use this software for designing their cut files as well. You can download a free version and their paid version with tech support is also very inexpensive.

Gerald brings up an important point about non-disclosure agreements. They aren't just about trusting someone else not to steal your idea. They're also important in determining if something is patentable or if it's already public knowledge.

Steve is also correct about the need to create drawings in a style that work for patents. They're basically technical drawings without measurements or tolerance figures, material specs, etc. Each element that is described in your patent text needs to be numbered in your drawings. It takes some time to figure out how many drawings to include, which angles to depict, when to show close ups, exploded views, cross section views, hidden features, etc.

Getting all the details right can be a slow process, but in a sadistic way I enjoy it - at least after I'm finished.

Best of luck with your new gizmo!

[gundog]

Thanks for all the input guys I have a patent attorney that did my last patent. He had sent me an email asking for a drawing. The last time I had a guy make the drawings for me that I submitted to the attorney. I am not sure if they used them or had new ones made I lost the contact info for the guy that made the last drawings. I just sent an email to the attorney to see exactly what he wants. I may be able to just hand draw it and have their artist make the drawings needed. I don't want to pay to have it drawn if they are just going to pay someone to redo it.

Mike

[waterwheelman]

Hello Mike,

I would be happy to talk with you about doing some technical drawings. I just graduated from design school and excelled at 3D renderings, especially Google Sketchup. I'd be interested to know if the patent office will accept drawings done in Sketchup, but if they do I'd be happy to help.

~Christy Chase
(aka Dave Chase's daughter)

PS We are in Vancouver, so if you need someone right away Dad and I can eaily come over, or you can bring the part over here.

[gerryv]

Sketchup is more than adequate. In fact, it's not the sophistication of the drawing that is important, there are many patents that have been granted based, quite literally on hand drawn figures - sketches if you will.

What is important is, as others have correctly pointed out, that certain conventions are followed. likely the most important of these is that "every" discrete part of the drawing that is referred to in the description needs to be numbered and vice versa. The lines need to be sharp and thick enough for scanning and photocopying, NO shading other than hatching so don't be tempted with applying woodgrain patterns :-)

Also important is that the drawings, and in fact the whole document, are clear enough to someone "skilled in the art", meaning the specific area your invention deals with, could use the combination of your drawings and description to make one of your gizmo's. In other words, you can take some knowledge of what you're talking about for granted - just not too much.

That raises the question, do you need an attorney to take care of the drawings? Certainly not (unless you're wealthy or at least can afford it) for two reasons.

First, all the "rules" are available to you free and in simple language.

Second, the attorney is not likey going to be the one doing the drawings. More likely, they will outsource it to an engineering firm who will hand it off to... well you get it. That said, a small number of patent attorneys/agents are also engineers. But either way, you'll pay the high hourly fees, which, in some cases, is the wise thing to do.

Where patent attorney's/agents are more likely to suit some peoples needs are in preparing the abstract, description and especially the claims (an all purpose lawyer who spent most of last month on a divorce case and a couple of real estate deals is not likely to be a good idea... on the claims part especially).

One of the most important things to keep in mind is that the patent examiners have to review an incredibly large number of documents on niche and ever evolving areas for a vast array of topics (patents are highly specific). Therefore, things like format, page size, spacing, type size, numbering, NO USE OF GENERALITIES, and such are very important. This is where the attorney comes in handy if you don't have time to read up and struggle a bit through the wording. If you know how to read and write reasonably well without depending on flowery language, then yes, you can do it yourself; if you have the time and it takes quite a bit but keep in mind it also takes the lawyer - actually, likely the lawyer's assistant or articling student - a lot of time too, at $XXX.00 per hour.

If you have the time, the United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO), Canadian Patent Office (CIPO), European Patent Office (EPO) World Intellectual Property Office (WIPO), etc.; the EPO being fussier than us North Americans about loosie-goosie BS, all provide very good, freely downloadable info on how to structure and write your own patent application.

The drawings are the easiest, the description takes the most time and needs much concise detail (which may be simply written) and the claims need much thought and also where structure is most important.

Why would you do it on your own then - cost.

So, don't sweat the drawings too much. They are the easy part. If you're going to use an attorney (which you are not required to do) I'd consider first doing the drawings yourself or having someone do them for you. In the case of the latter, then go through the fine tuning, updating, last minute brain-wave stuff, probably a few revisions before you're happy; this at a much lower cost than the lawyer is going to charge you for the same and you eliminate the possibility that the lawyer is then going to try (their best you hope) to translate your explanations to a third party (always losing something in the process) at $XXX.00/hour. Most importantly YOUR drawing, even sketches, are going to be a key aspect of getting your invention across accurately and correctly to the lawyer to ensure your patent is well written if you choose not to do it yourself.

Wow, that's a lot of babble for a guy that's not a lawyer :-) But then, all of my national and international patents/ patent applications have managed to get through the process so far, albeit each with a big investment of my time - but a much smaller investment of my money.

Whew!

[steve_g]

http://www.legalzoom.com/patent-drawings/patent-drawings-overview.html

I just remembered who did some patent drawings for me. $299.00

I have an Industrial education background including drafting and still thought this was a good deal. To have someone experienced in the nuances of patent art do the drawings gave me peace of mind.

Steve

[gundog]

The attorney's office sent me an email all they want is a hand sketch faxed to them.

Thanks for all the concern and help.

Mike