Whimsical Furniture

[myxpykalix]

I'm tempted to try something like this next:
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-...40#previewlink (http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-make-whimsical-furniture/?&sort=NEWEST&limit=40#previewlink)

If anyone attempts this before i get to it, I'm sure i have some questions so please let me know you are doing it, or if you have already done something like this, so i can ask some questions!

I could see how you could draw the front and back "frames" for the furniture. And for the sides he talks about "bendable plywood" and i have seen it on tv and in videos, but don't think it is available anywhere around here.
I believe it is just basically plywood that has been "kerfed" and i could see how on the backside of the front frame and the frontside of the back piece you could cut a mortise slot for the bendable plywood to fit into, but i'm a little unclear on how you would reinforce the frame internally to hold the shape?
Since the sides would be only .25 thick how would you support the shelves and hold this together?

[Gary Campbell]

Jack...
Bendy Ply is available most everywhere. Its about 3/8 thick and you can use multiple layers. I have used it on many radiused projects, but it needs a slick coat of bondo or vitex for paint or a layer of veneer for a wood finish. Using 2 layers can give you a 3/4 thick side. Once it is either laminated or glued into the frames it is pretty rigid.

Have fun!

[wberminio]

Another Brand is "Wacky Wood"
Also check out this
http://www.outwatercatalogs.com/lg_display.cfm/catalog/2010_master_catalog/page/513/highlight/bending%20mdf

With this product you glue the cut side face to face.

I've made my own with my Bot
Works very well and very strong.All you have to be concerned with is the edge.
Bond works great if you are painting.

[kevin]

I think a inexpeise soltion is to cut the back and front with the bot using whatever curve ,You don't have to copy exact let your imagination go remeber that other guy had no bot once you have the front and back exact its easy .Make a dado for top and bottom plus side. asemble top and bttom now you have strenteght the side for the bend can use 1/4 inch lamint or bendable plywood onc it glue in
It will be trial and eror
after a litle practice i think the draws will be easy

doing the sides first will be hard to make to sides the samea lot of work for nothing

My expaltion might not be clear thr trick is to have front and back exact

[waynelocke]

i have made a lot of curved panels and some pieces similar to your photo. I make curved forms with ribs cut on the shopbot and bending ply and then glue up the panels in a vacuum bag. I usually make the panels with 1/8" mdf or plywood and 3/8" bending ply and then veneer the curved panels.

[kevin]

Heres a photo of what I.am trying to explain

[bleeth]

Jack:
The replies below give you the basics of how this is done in the two most common ways there are.
1. Using the actual furniture as a bending jig.
2. Making a separate jig to bend the parts.

If your design has a front and back then you can use the parts themselves as a bending jig. Bending ply comes in many widths but the supply of various widths may be limited in your area. 3/8 is most common but it is availabele often in 1/4 and sometimes 1/8. When you actually measure it you find that the above dimensions are very nominal. To get a true 3/4" thickness you often need to add a layer of thinner material to 2 layers of 3/8. Not a bad thing to do though since more layers means a better panel. My preferred method of getting a 3/4" door that will not be in a frame and need to hold the curve without being attached to any other parts is 3 layers of 1/4" plus a layer of 1/8.
If it is a part that needs to hold the curve on it's own then you need to use the right type of glue. Contact cement or standard yellow glue is too flexible and you will get springback in your part. Most people use plastic resin glue which comes as a powder and gets mixed with water. You can also use epoxy like West System, MAS, etc.
If the curved panel can be bent from thin plywood (like doorskin) or 1/4" MDF I will use that.
The other common way is the kerfs as shown below in the link in Erminio's post. You can buy this material or make your own. I have used my bot to make kerfed material from mdf and plywood. You just cut through with a 1/8 bit every 3/8 to 1/2" leaving a skin from 1 to 5/32. How thin your skin needs to be depends on how small your radius is. For those pieces you show it is a fairly easy radius and you may be able to pull it off with 1/4" mdf. If you need to kerf it (Kerfing your own mdf is the cheapest material-wise), then you either use two layers of 3/8 with the kerfed sections facing each other, or one layer of 3/4 and laminate over the kerfed side with veneer or something like that.
If you are kerfing plywood the kerfs need to be in the direction of the face layer.
The fun part can be how you hold the part while the glue is drying. That will depend on how you are doing it and what you have available in your shop.
All the above is a "quickie" guide to bending. Whole books have been written on it but the basics are really pretty easy. After all, bent wood on boats has been around thousands of years!!!
Here is a shot I did of something like that some years back.

[myxpykalix]

Bendable plywood is just not available in my immediate area, so it seems just as easy to make my own (and cheaper).

Since when you kerf one side that will be exposed (the inside), you need to cover that with something so what about luan plywood? That seems like it might be too stiff so would i need to kerf that also?

I was thinking about .5 plywood and .25 luan to make .75. Actually I think 2 pieces of .25 plywood to make .5 thick sides would be plenty thick don't you think?

Also looking at this pic don't you think that it would be easier to just make a mortise in the front and back to stick the bended plywood in rather then making a dado and having to use a hundred clamps (which I don't have). That way the mortise can hold the curve.

Do I need the supports (in blue) from front to back to support the case or would the bended plywood be enough to hold the front and back together?:confused:

[bleeth]

Odds are bendable ply is available in your area but is never carried at stores like Home Depot. Some "real" lumber yards carry it and a local cabinet maker can probably tell you who the nearer wholesale distributors of their materials are, who undoubtedly carry it. As Erminio's link shows, you can have kerf core shipped in but shipping would probably make the cost too high.
You probably cannot bend 1/4" ply, whether it is faced with Luann or anything else, for that curve. For kerf core type construction you are better off with 2 layers of 3/8" and laminate the two pieces with the kerf towards each other. For one layer you can use 1/2". For paint grade you can bondo and sand the kerfs, cover with what is known as 2-ply veneer, or even cover with a piece of plastic laminate with the good side scuffed up and glued down so you have the back exposed.
I would also use the mortise system you spoke of and did for the piece pictured in my previous post.
3/4" ply for the top and bottom with the front and back installed to them first should make the blocking unneccessary but it can't hurt, assuming you cut the correct angle in them to make them fit right in the corners.

[bill.young]

We end up using bending ply quite often and our local lumber yard doesn't stock it but orders it for us whenever we need some...if we can get it on the Eastern Shore then you should be able to get it from one of your local yards in Charlottesville.

If you do get some, be aware that it's available in " column roll" where the bending axis is parallel to the long side so that it can make an 8' column, and "barrel roll" where it's parallel to the short side and would make a 4' barrel.

Oh yeah, the bending ply we usually get is 3/8" and has 2 luaun faces.

Bill

[kevin]

Jack, You are making this too complicated for yourself. The front and back have to be a mirror. Because you want to put dado on the backside not the front. If you notice on mine, the top and bottom shelves are the key to holding it together. All you have to do, is trace the inside 3/4 using part works and the deeper the better for your dado. As for mortice tendon, you will end having a lip. The bend, after you get your bottom and bottom assembled can be done with 1/2 MDF. It would probably be better to use 3/8. If you are worried about trying to clamp this thing, just try to sneak in some brads. If the bend is too strong, you can always use ratchet tie downs if the brads start popping out. I think it is probably better to make this out MDF except for the top, bottom and shelves. You definetely want to screw in the top and bottom because they will be your anchor and make sure you use plywood. The reason for MDF, I think it looks better with a large round over; I would make this unit 7' tall. Sure Jack you can make it more complicated but sometimes we over engineer for nothing. You can put one of these together in a day. I want to put one in the showroom. The Bot really shines on one of these projects. Without the Bot, a project like this would be huge. Remember KISS keep it simple stupid. I follow that philosophy because if you look at my stuff I have a very simple formula. For Dave, nice photo I wish I had more adventurous clients to try stuff like that. I'm in danger of my stuff looking all the same. Kevin

[gene]

I dont know what the fuss is all about, most everything i build looks like that.LOL:D its the straight stuff that gives me a fit.

[myxpykalix]

I can see Gene Rhodes standing there scratching his head as he looks at the finished project -"Sir, it started out straight, I don't know what happened?"

Kevin- I sometimes do overthink or overdo some things but come here and ask advice and refine it to keep from making mistakes by talking to the "experts":rolleyes:
As for mortice tendon, you will end having a lip. The bend, after you get your bottom and bottom assembled can be done with 1/2 MDF

I have gone back and forth on this, I think the front and back would be best cut from MDF but really didn't want to kerf the MDF because it makes such a mess in my shop even with the dust collection running.
Do you think it would look ok to have front/back of MDF and sides plywood or all of it one or the other?

I can see the advantage of the clean edge for front and back with MDF and ragged edges with plywood.

As far as a lip due to the mortise, I don't have a problem with that. At this time I only have 4 Bessy clamps that would be big enough and if i made it a rebate i would need lots more clamps.

When i first drew this up I made 2 seperate pieces then I found myself trying to match vectors, ect THEN the light went on.

I deleted the second part, copied the front and deleted the center cutout and had a mirror copy of the first piece.
It was funny because I heard this voice in my head that said:
"Jack, You are making this too complicated for yourself"...must have been Kevin!:D

[kevin]

Jack
Play with it sounds like less confusion
I.am shure the second time you.ll refine and improve and baybe even write a book

[bleeth]

Jack:

You now have about 5 times more information than most of us had the first time we did something like this. The next post from you on this thread should be a picture of your finished project.

Just do it!

[fsrdoug]

Look up krefkore.com. It is an mdf type product that bends easily and finishes like regular mdf. I have used bendy board and it is way too much work to get a smooth surface.
I bend 3/8 kerfkore to the shape I want and glue another 3/8 sheet back to back for a 3/4 piece or just a sheet of veneer on the back for a 3/8 light weight glue up.
Best part, my customers love the look and finish of the stuff.
Doug

[dan_nelson]

there was an article in fine woodworking this month that my also help (feb 2011

[myxpykalix]

is that something i can look up online or go find the magazine? We have a barnes and noble here in town.

edit...I found it thanks

[myxpykalix]

doug,
I called a distrib. for prices on kerfkore here is what i got:

The Kerfkore prices are as follows:

8’ x 4’ bends the short way to make a 4’ tall barrel shape

¾” thick = $184.00 / sheet

½” thick = $175.50 / sheet

Please allow a skid charge of $30.00 and a freight charge of $ 130.00

The lead time is 2 weeks approx.

over $500 for 2 sheets ARE THEY NUTS?

Since i have not seen any of this stuff, if anyone knows please tell me what difference there would be between their product and me taking a regular piece of mdf and kerfing it myself?
Am I the only one who thinks thats crazy?

[kevin]

Make your own kerfs on the cnc

[wberminio]

Jack
I've made my own .
It is easy with a Shopbot.
In the "old days" I used a table saw.
Use an 1/8" bit and experiment.Spacing depends on radius.
You can use MDF or hardwood ply.

[beacon14]

Their product is not just regular MDF that has had kerfs grooved into it. It is narrow strips of MDF or Particleboard bonded to a heavy paper/fabric material. The paper/fabric between the strips and the laminate create some "give" which minimizes the tendency for telegraphing that can occur when forcing kerfed sheet goods to bend.

The makers of Kerfkore have a range of similar products made for bending. Some are intended to be stapled and glued to a form just like you would do with 3/8" bending plywood; others are meant to be laminated flat with contact cement, then bent and held into position either by attaching to a form or by gluing two pieces back to back as Doug says.

It may be worth contacting a distributor to find out more about some of their products to see if one of them might fit the bill.

[myxpykalix]

I wouldn't pay 1/4th of what they want for that stuff. For some kind of high end commercial furniture like i have seen some of you guys make I can see using it but for kid furniture I could never sell it for enough to make a profit.
I am starting a 16x28 expansion of my shop next week which will finally allow me to move some of my tools to use them properly.:D

[wberminio]

Jack

David is correct about the product, krefkore.
Its a good product,saves time in the long run,but to get started-
Use your bot.
Most don't have the advantage of a Shopbot

[myxpykalix]

"David is correct about the product, krefkore"

David is right about most things, as is all the guys i ask for advice. This is why I ask questions here. It's like calling your "Crazy uncle" up and asking advice, you know he knows alot of stuff...:D thanks!

[angus_hines]

@Jack I believe Atlantic Ply in Richmond has it too !!

[myxpykalix]

Thanks angus but as cheap as i am i think i am going to make my own first to see how it goes. This is just an idea i have at the moment for one of the grandkids so i'd rather try to make a prototype on the cheap to begin with and then if some rich person wants to pay me $1000.00 to make something like that THEN i'll buy the expensive stuff:)

However i will take your advice and call for pricing just to see, who knows.