More 3D Slicing

[artisan]

Here are some new 3D items I've been working on. Over the next few weeks my shop will be turning out (2) 14 ft Stallions, a 10 ft Venus de Milo and a 12 ft Roman statue. All of this will be cut on the Shopbot via the slicing methods discussed last year in an earlier thread. We've learned a few new tricks since then. I thought perhaps some of you might be interested in the process and I will try to post at intervals along the way. Let me know what you guys think. Thanx...D

[artisan]

Stallions in progress
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[paco]

What I think?!

It's... BIG!


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I'll keep watching this thread!

[btk]

Darrell,

Nice Work.
Would love to hear more on your new Slicing methods when you have time.

Thanks,
Brian

[jay]

Darrell, nice work. Looking forward to learning more about the process.

[knedert]

WOW!!!
What is the material they are made out of?
What kind of adhesive?
Are they intended for indoors or ourdoors?
and now a slicing question:
The horse on the right has a "ring" around it's neck, is that one of the slices - or decoration?
Thanks,
Rose

[drodda]

How thick are you using each slice? What is your Z height capable of? This looks great can't wait to see more. Beats the heck out of building poker tables.

[marshawk]

You guys don't "horse" around in that shop, do you?

[gerald_d]

The left side horse had a bit part in the Godfather movie.

[artisan]

These two horses are carved from regular bead foam (styrofoam)in 3 inch slices. My Z is a standard 6 inch Shopbot gantry and all the work is done on a PR converted to PRT machine. The statues will be hardcoated and installed outdoors on pedestals. Here you see one of the guys (Tony) assembling the roughed out Horsehead parts just as they come off the router. From here they will be sanded with various power tools and hand sanded....D
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[artisan]

Rose: The "ring" on the one horse is a joint formed when the head is attached. The one body is headless and you can see we are just building the second head to attach to it. We will cut a groove in the head with a hot-knife and it will slide down over pvc pipe already installed. The finshed statue will have LED eyes capable of changing colors and will have the ability to shoot smoke from it's nostrils.... (It's what the client ordered) ....Most of the finish work will be done this weekend and hardcoating will begin....D

[jhicks]

Unbelieveable! Fantastic design and fabrication work. Keep the photos coming. Its always inspirational to see what creative folks can do with this equipment and obviously some talent added to the mix. I thought our projects were getting large but now they look like peanuts.
WOW!

[robtown]

I've always said it's just a tool and it does what you tell it to. ..

You just gotta learn what to tell it to do, that's what is important.

Darrell, is that you in the pictures? And do you always work with your eyes closed? hehe...

[marshawk]

Completely and absolutely AWESOME!

[artisan]

Thanks for the comments....more pics to follow and.....No, that's not me, it's one of my guys in the shop. I don't show up on film....D

[artisan]

The majority (95%) of the sculpting is done as of today ...Tues....both heads are finished and now we've begun brown coating and meshing the statues. The tails and forelegs have been detached and will be coated separatel and then re-attached on site. You'll notice the statues look less like Ponies and more like Horses now. I did a lot of hand sculpting to the model to achieve this....a more thoughtful approach in the software modeling could have saved me a few days here. You'll also notice Tony using a hopper gun as described in earlier posts to apply the first layer of browncoat....D

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[wemme]

Gidday.
Darrell Thats some amazing work.

[gene]

Darrell,
What is the customer going to do with the horses?
What type of software do you use to do the slices? Please post some photos of the finished work after they are at the job location. I would love to be able to do stuff like that. my talent is limited to driving nails and i have a nailer for that. Where is your shop, and are you the guy from the myrtle beach area that was at the jamboree last year? If so , or not , the jamboree is coming up and i would like to see your work at the jamboree this coming year. GREAT WORK GUYS. Gene Rhodes

[artisan]

Thanks Gene and Wemme. These two Horses will be installed in front of a business on 6 ft concrete pedestals that we have already built. They have some "Vegas" type of attributes.....fog and lighting that were requested by the customer. We just finished installing a computer controlled LED lightshow on the building and these will top off the project. As for software.....3DS Max, Rhino and Visualmill were used to create the model, slice it and toolpath it. Artcam will slice and toolpath once you have your model....but the slicer is a bit primitive..... however it IS effective. Autocad, Rhino and many other programs while more complicated, give you MANY more options and strategies when slicing. As far as the Jamboree....yes, that was me last year.... and I don't know if I'm coming yet....that still seems like a year away right now. Thanks again for your kind comments...More pics to follow. I am currently also cutting a 10 ft "Venus" statue on the Bot and will try and document it as much as time allows....D

[robtown]

Couple questions,

You state "I don't show up on film" does this mean you are a vampire?

Did you do the 3d models yourself or did you purchase them?

[artisan]

In the case of the horses...I did the model myself....the Venus de Milo was readily available for about 100 bucks so I just purchased it and edited it to suit production.... minimized undercuts, added details etc. I am currently building a 12 ft "Maximus Emperor" type piece in 3DS Max. And yes.....I have been accused of being Vampire-like by clients and even police officers who find me staring at buildings in the middle of the night trying to figure out how NOT to screw them up. Otherwise....I tend to shun the local newspapers and magazines that come to visit the shop for now and just post things here. I feel no need to school my competitors or invite them to my area, but have no problem sharing with the Bot community that has so often helped me....D

Here's a really good pic of me working on something for a clients sportsbar today....
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[artisan]

And here are the horses fully coated with the first coat of browncoat....D
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[gene]

Darrell.
I think you could school people but if they don't possess the talent you obisously have they are NOT going to be able to do the work you do.
I could not even begin to figure out how to do some of the things you would take for granted as second nature. The talent it is what seperates the "artisans" from the rest of us. I can do cabinet work as good as the next guy but i can't build horses, or sub sandwiches that are 11' long. Have you ever done work on parade type floats ? Whats the most aggrivating and the most rewarding parts of your job?
Thanks Gene

[artisan]

Hi Gene....you're too kind. I think ANYONE can learn this sort of thing.... it's a discipline just like cabinet making. We turn out a lot of cabinets here.... but I bet you'd get a chuckle out of some them. I don't set much stock in the "born with talent" line of thinking....I think anyone with an average intelligence and a desire can learn most anything. For me it's a function of time....there just isn't enough of it.
The most aggravating parts of my job are when I have to put on the bill collectors hat occasionally or when I underestimate how long a project will take and I don't get a chance to enjoy the work because of the deadlines.
The best part.....is when I've finished an interior or exterior of a building and just watching how people react to it. My business is built on repeat customers.
I've never worked on parade floats....though I might one day....D

[artisan]

Ya know.....I was sitting here working and wondering why Artcam has never improved on the little slicing program they have. They have such an awesome package overall.....but a dedicated piece of software that allowed you to slice up a model in different ways....easily and with different strategies like parting lines should not be all that hard to achieve.
I would think maybe some of the talented minds on this forum could come up with something that would allow Botters to slice up any 3D model in various ways..... maybe a slice-wizard.
I was looking at one of the "fast prototype printersStratasys (http://www.stratasys.com/)" that produce intricate models by printing a starch substance and I realized that Shopbotters could build much more intricate models than I am building now with a better slicer.....D

[gene]

Darrell,
I agree , The most enjoyment i get from the jobs is the way the customers react to the finished work. some are amazed and some are just plain happy . As long as everybody is happy then i'm happy . How long have you been doing the sculptures ? Gene

[Brady Watson]

Darrell,
The ArtCAM Slicer is simple, but it seems to get the job done just fine. Combined with panelling features (v7 and up) you can effectively slice models in both Z & XY orientation. You can also do 2-sided models as well, using a combination of the 2 to really achieve any desired shape...while it may not be in 'Wizard' format, the capability exists now...

-Brady

[artisan]

Brady from what I've seen of the Artcam slicer....version 8.... it's the same add-on non-supported program they've always had. Take the Horses I've just done for instance. I was able to build them knowing in advance that I would remove the leg, tail and head sections and then rotate the body to the best position and slice it in 3DS Max to get what I needed. I would have loved to have just sliced them off wherever I wanted to. I can do this of course in 3DS Max.....but I wind up with a bunch of separate models that I have to keep up with. The Artcam slicer is fine if you first import your 3D model and try to position it with the parting plane halfway through and then save as a relief file. You can mirror this for the other side....but that is not very usefull unless you're making a ball or vase type object. Trying to align non symmetrical halves in the Artcam slicer is awkwards at best and hit or miss very often. I'm not sure if you've used it very much....I have... and it's not very usefull for complex non-symmetrical models. Sure you can slice on the z or x,y....but you need more complex strategies than that....much like you can do in Autocad, Rhino or 3DS Max. These, however require some complicated math and part tracking that could be streamlined. The other Huge problem with the Artcam slicer is that it only works with native Artcam Relief (rlf.) files and thus is of no use unless you want to work only in Artcam. In my experience, the Artcam slicer works for only the simpler models. Because of it's primitive nature I seldom use it anymore.
The software I'm envisioning would allow you to take a 3D file of...say an Octopus...slice all the legs off and rotate them to the most advantageous positions....then do the same with the head and create a relief file from the 3D slices....instead of the other way around. You could then cut and reassemble your model along your parting lines. In the best of worlds the software would track each part and label them. Mike John demonstrated a lot of this in Autocad in an earlier post.
I've been contacted by someone this morning who wants to tackle this beast....Hopefully this will break some new ground ....D

[artisan]

Gene....I've been doing this type of work for about 7 years now....and it just keeps growing....D

[Brady Watson]

Darrell,
I got ya now. Yes, I have done what you are talking about in Rhino and then imported the pieces into Pro. It doesn't matter if they are non-symmetrical or not, because you can position the model @ 50% as you explained and then save each half, slice and then export the RLF as an STL. So, I get what you are saying..and it isn't very pretty for someone not experienced with ArtCAM, but it can be done. If you do a little prep work in Rhino or other software to essetially break the model into parts that can be fed to the slicer.

It would seem that you have a process that works down pat using Max...I can't afford Max & Pro...So all I can do is comment on Pro (and Rhino). I bet that if you showed your work to your ArtCAM dealer, they would probably go far to get you what you wanted in a slicer. They are pretty good with that stuff. Have you tried contacting them yet?

-Brady

[artisan]

Brady....I was thinking of that....they are a good company and Artcam is a great package.....it just seems to me that a dedicated slicer would have sooooo many more uses than say....a face wizard....which is mostly a profile face wizard after all. You could literally slice up and reproduce any statue, architectural feature or create whole new 3D scupltures so easily this way.... I'm just surprised that there hasn't been more demand. For rapid prototyping it would be of fantastic use. I will see how things work out with idividual that contacted me first. I think he may have a nice opportunity....Thanks...D

[mikejohn]

Let me hop in with one comment.
When my model is still 'solid' I thread 'holes through the model at right angles to the plane of intended slice.
These holes are then perfect registration holes.
.............Mike

[billp]

Would "Poser" let you extract individual sections and then do your slicing/dicing piece by piece?

[Brady Watson]

Yes. Provided that there were morph targets or joints where the pieces intersected creating a boundary between parts.

-B

[mikejohn]

Darrell
Are you 3D carving your slices, or 2 1/2D contouring?
I have a relatively simple method of producing, say, 5mm contours (could be 1mmif you wanted) in 50mm foam.
I use this contour cutting in wood slices with my rocking horses, with the true finished shape being achieved by hand.
The shopbot time is a fraction of the time it would take to fully 3D carve, and the finishing is suprisingly quick also.
............Mike

[artisan]

Mike I am doing a combination....using 3D files on the more complex areas and simple 2.5D cuts to rough out the broader areas. In some cases I am able to use 2Dimensional cutouts.....all of which really speeds the process and cuts down on the cutting time. I also do a lot of the finish work by hand.....unless I am making multiple copies...in which case I rely more on the Bot for uniformity. I would be very interested in knowing more about your process.

I've just cut the legs and tails off the horses in order to transport them. They will be re-attached on site....tomorrow....D

[mikejohn]

Darrell
I will post a complete explanation of my method later.
I have an order that has to be completed by Sunday evening, so a busy weekend.
A customer who has been talking about this order (and a much larger follow on order) for some time, confirmed the order last Monday. He supplies the material. Got it to me Friday evening 6-o-clock. This is the proving products for the big order which need to be at a meeting Monday morning.
Don't you just love customers?
..............Mike

[marshawk]

Mike, That happens to us all of the time. The customer comes in and gets the price and the lead time- usually 6-8 weeks for larger cabinets. He says "OK, I'll get back to you". 4 weeks later he comes in with a check and wants it in two weeks..."But you said 6-8 weeks!" To which we reply: "6-8 weeks from when your deposit is on our hands."

Sometimes we work with them and put a rush on things, but, for the most part, they have to wait.

[stickman]

Chip,

When I worked as manager of a commercial laminate shop, that would happen often, "We need it NOW", only to rush it through the shop and deliver it. Show up on-site a week or even two and find the cabinet boxes still sitting where they got unloaded, or worse yet getting the phone call saying they are not ready, but they were taking up room in the shop, valuable room we needed for other customers jobs.

Jay

[jhicks]

That old Lead-Time issue. Some things never change regardless of what industry or market one is in. My assessment is buyers THINK they are doing the right thing when they rush everyone in hopes of either "making themselves look good or at least not being the cause of a late completion" But they fail to recognize the weakest link is the final supplier to deliver so much material arrives, much sits waiting for the final widget, and their cash flow sucks because that last .10 cent item has cost them weeks of payments for the premium goods they were so anxious to expedite and get so EVERYTHING would be there on time.
Silly but true. I generally ask what their drop dead date is and IF its really urgent.If their emergency is due to their poor planning, offer to work overtime at 50% premium. That will separate the men from the boys and we are Happy to work on nights and week ends at that premium.

[artisan]

I think everyone runs into this sort of thing. All of our quotes have the phrase..."Work begins with Deposit" in bold letters ....which has helped some... but has not eliminated the problem. I am fortunate to only hear this from my largest clients on occasion. There are two great books..."Selling the Invisible" and "What Clients Love"....that have been VERY helpful in developing the customer service additude that my compnay adheres to.

Update....The Horses are up....85% installed....pics tomorrow....Off to watch the game....D

[mikejohn]

A small update.Owing to temperatures again hitting -20ºC over the weekend, we had problems with paint drying. So we got up very early this morning and completed the work before 07.45, the time our guy says he needed them.He didn't turn up. At 10.30 we took the parts to his establishment. He wasn't there so we left them with one of his guys. At 11.30 he rings from somewhere asking if the parts were ready!!)

I don't need this.I could have been a plumber!
............Mike

[artisan]

Here are a couple of pics of the installation. The Bodies were installed with no legs or tail...then the bottom legs were added immediately for stability. Today we installed the tails and forelegs (weather and my flu were setbacks). The sculpting is now 99% complete. There has been some hand finishing of course....but these beasts were 90% cut and finished.... 3 inches at a time .... on the trusty Shopbot. Tomorrow we will finish coat the pieces in place and add the LED eyes.... which are computer controlled and can be any color. We tested the smoke today also....works....time for supper and bed....D

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[bleeth]

Darrell: They are magnificent. Congratulations on a terrific job.
Mike: Since I operate on both sides of that street I have learned that I am so constantly dissapointed in promised delivery dates by suppliers I have learned to do a bit of stretching when telling my vendors when I need a product. I would rather have it on my shelf than late. By the same token, the pressures of unexpected happenstances stretching resources thin means it is difficult at times to predict exactly what time something will happen. It doesn't take long to identify a customer or vendor who is habitually late with delivery or info and the most important lesson is to gracefully let someone know that their poor planning is not your emergency.

Dave

[hespj]

Darrell, you talk of "hardcoating" and "browncoating", what is this exactly.

Very impressed at your CAD modelling abilities.

John

[rookie432]

Wow,

I wanna see more!! Do you have an online portfolio?

[artisan]

Thanx for the comments....as always. As far as browncoating goes.....I've discussed that at length in several spots in the forum and you can easily search and find those discussions. In short, its an elastomeric coating, used by the building industry to cover foam and protect it with a tougher skin. I use it often to seal my foam pieces and it can even be sculpted. It is a fine powder, so it holds detail well.

As for hardcoating....while browncoat is a medium grade hardcoat....ther are far tougher finishes... from acrylic stucco to a new limestone cement finish we have developed. There are also epoxies, polyureas and polyurethanes in many different forms. Rhino liners are a form of polyurea and work very well over foam. Thanks again for the comments. I'll post pics of the pieces next week when totally finished as well as the currently underway Maximus project. Actually here are two Julius Caesar heads (carved almost entirely by the Bot) for large medallions going on another building here in town. These are kind of ugly looking....but it's what the client ordered. The Venus de Milo and Gladiator we are doing are far more impressive.. and I will post them soon....D

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[artisan]

Here is Venus.....first getting browncoated....and then a cementious coating with limestone added and an antique paint job....95% cut on the Shopbot....D

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[mikejohn]

Darrell
That is excellent.
I see you made a bit of a boob, but over all it's a pretty 'armless project!

.........Mike