I may have a big legal issue I need some advice.

[knight_toolworks]

I bid on a job that these waterjet guys could not do. The only reason was they could not put a chamfer on the holes. I guess they never heard of a hand held router.
well they are out of state and they had the 40 sheets of plywood at the waterjet place. I placed a bid (almost wish I had not) and they took it by that afternoon. I made them pay a friend to go get the plywood.
I told them I wanted 1/2 the payment up front and the rest when done.
But they wanted this by tomorrow. I did not even get the accurate drawings till Tuesday night and this job is about 20 hours of work.
well I am still waiting for the fist check but I am 1/2 the way through.
I am not worried about getting paid but the customer just asked for my certificate of conformance as what I am cutting out are a couple of parts to hold warheads for the military.
well of course I don't have one. so I am worried that I won't get paid.
the tolerances are tight and I have been measuring everything and dialing it in.
But what am I supposed to do they never asked for it till just today. Should I keep cutting?

[zeykr]

I thinks it's really just a statement from you that the parts meet their specs.

There are quite a few on the web and looks like most company purchasing agents supply the form they want filled, then you sign it to certify the parts are as ordered, meet their specs, and note any nonconforming aspects.

I expect you can meet the requirement by downloading a form and filling it out:

http://www.aerojet.com/supplier/forms/cofctemplate.pdf

http://www.inl.gov/procurement/docs/540.04.pdf

Now as far as getting paid........

[jerry_stanek]

Did they supply the drawings and specs. If yes and you hold to their specs then you should be able to summit your certificate of conformance. It is an agreement that you will do the work that you agreed to.

I had to sign these for one company that I installed casework for Then they wanted me to change some of my work but I said that I needed a change order to do that and they would not give me one. I would have had to go back and redo the work to what the original contract called for.

[knight_toolworks]

that one was not as bad as what I found on the net showing government certification. but this is a military sub contracted job.
I sure wish I did not take this job.

[dlcw]

Steve,

I'd call your lawyer and get clarification on this. That would be the safest thing to do.

[gc3]

if need be you can "run south of the border" we always have a open door...:eek:

[knight_toolworks]

a lawyer would cost more then this job I think. the biggest problem is trying to get the two holes that have a tolerance of +.01 to be that. the holes varies by about .006 or a bit more or they are right on on the same sheet.

[gerryv]

I think I'd ask for proof of what they say as well as a means to verify it. It might well be a con to get you to hand back the processed work for nothing or next to it.

[kevin]

You can come to the great white north

All kidding aside it's their problem. If they accepted the contract, they must of picked up all the permits for their bid to be accepted. It has nothing to do with you. If anything ever went to court on this, you were asked verbally. I won't give legal advice but you have nothing to worry about. Sometimes general contractor, or factories doing prototpes, will hunt down shops that are a little hungry and screw them. I personally don't like working for contractors because they basically don't take responsibility for their projects. But that is in my area. I know there are some good ones out there. If it is any consolation, your stress level will increase as time goes by. It is a very tough business. It is not like thse TV shows. I have done things in the past in the spirit of getting the job done. I've lost about $50,000. I try to be more cautious but in business, sometimes I am too soft. I am working on that. Good luck with it. The only thing a lawyer will do is put the file on his desk and he has a cash cow to build you 200 to 400$ a month. I represented myself once and countersued for $90,000. and I won. You are going to face these legal issues from time to time and I know it is hard to not take it personally. Goog luck. I am just sharing a bit of experience.

[John David]

The company I work for signs C oof C's on a daily basis for parts going on Millitary Vehicles.
This is just saying that you are building to the spec on the print.
I believe, as mentioned above, if you are building exactly to the print you are OK

Just keep all your records on what you did incase you did something wrong.


Good Luck

JD

[Brady Watson]

The parts don't leave the shop until you get the last check. Period. New customers have to prove themselves and their credit.

You giving out mortgages over there too? :)

-B

[gene]

I agree . No check No parts. I had a guy that made it seem like an emergency and that he left his checkbook at home, guess what ..I trusted him and got screwed.

[wberminio]

Steve

Don't let them scare you or bully you.
Heed the above advice-no check or better yet cash-no product
Make it clear
If they are legit they won't have a problem-if they are not who needs them

[knight_toolworks]

Yes you guys are great. I better get the down payment before monday. the problem is they are not local and they have to schedule a pickup of the parts. so I will live with the rest of the payment on approval but the 1/2 has to be here before I let it get picked up.
the stupid thing is they have to sand all of these. this plywood is horrible about splinters.
if they have to sand it why could they not chamfer the holes with a hand router? that's how I did not forget doing it on the cnc.

[gundog]

.010" on plywood is pretty close I think unless you can control the humidity when they measue for tolerance.

I would say if you agreed to making the parts and then they later added the government spec tough luck for them. I would not release the parts until I was paid enough to cover my expenses with them.

Mike

[knight_toolworks]

the .01 is somewhat doable but it has been a pain. but it was only on two small holes. so any that are too small I fixed with a file.
I knew about the specs before hand though.
but if I don't see that check tomorrow I am canceling the pickup then I have to worry about getting the rest from them.
I wanted to finish today but so many other need them today jobs.

I wish I waited for the check to start but I don't get mail till 4 so I could not waste the day waiting. and then not get them done by Friday.

[gene]

1/2 payment=1/2 product Dont release the other 1/2 without a check in hand . The lessons that you buy and pay for will be the ones you remember the longest!

[knight_toolworks]

I have about 4500.00 in plywood from them so I was not worried about getting the 1/2. But they are very slow. But I don't thi9nk in this case they will pay the rest till they receive it. I wish they were local it would all be easier.

[bleeth]

Steve:

I wait for payment on a lot of jobs. On ALL of those jobs I have a contract from the GC, and the certified right to Lien the owners property where the installation goes if they don't pay. These are our cabinet and millwork jobs. I also usually have a billing schedule that allows me to bill and collect in steps that keeps my out of pocket down.

When I just do a straight cutting job for someone it is strictly COD. I wouldn't send parts out of town and rely on their approval before payment. The cert is no issue and is your guarentee that your work is correct. As long as it is, if there is an issue you are obligated to stand by a warranty. To me, the biggest issue is that the parts are wood, the tolerance is tight, and wood changes shape.

[knight_toolworks]

I am pretty stuck on this one for the last check. but at least I finally got the first one.
This might or might not be a McDonald's pay job (G) won't loose money but I may not make much if they don't follow through.
but I do have a extra sheet of material and a lot of nice big pieces of ply left. enough it might come close to covering the difference.

[gene]

Hopefully they are having cash flow problems. When they get paid you might get paid. I'll keep fingers crossed for you , Good luck

[MogulTx]

Steve,

All you are saying when you make up a C of C is that you have tested the parts and that they meet the specs that you have agreed to. You can even note exceptions, or what have you on the C 0f C. You should not be too concerned about this. I would document exactly how you did the testing, and what parameters that you came up with. Once a process is established you can probably test one in ten or something like that- but I would test ALL of these so that you can tell them that you know that every one is acceptable.

Then make your C of C and sign it off.

No problem!

Monty