No reset

[Stagecraft]

Finished re-assembly of my Shopbot after moving it to my home workshop from it's old location.
Had the electrician over today to do the final connections.
Switched on the power, hit the blue reset button, the VSD unit lit up and I was able to get the spindle running immediately.
I didn't run the XYZ motors at that time as the PC was not yet connected.
Now it's a couple of hours later, I connect the PC, power everything up and the SB control box won't reset.
It has power, with the door open I can see the green LEDs on the board are on but the text LED display at the back keeps scrolling 1 2 3 and repeats.
I've tried powering down, removing the USB connection to the PC and still no joy.
...I'm stumped.

[ken_rychlik]

Does your pc show a connection with the controller?

Do you hear the "clunk" when you push the reset button?

One loose connection anywhere will keep you from running.

Check, check, and check again. E-stops, motor connections, driver connections....ect....

[Stagecraft]

Kenneth, thanks for the reply.
No, the PC doesn't see the control box, no "clunk"
Have checked for loose connections but even if I completely disconnect the PC the box should still be able to reset which it doesn't.
There is power to the box which is why I'm confused.

[bob_s]

When I assembled my system the problem was that the emergency shut off switch was not in the run position. Took me 2 hours to figure out that I needed to twist it to have it pop all the way back out. Sounds like it may be as simple as that, or in that circuit.
give it a try
Bob

[Stagecraft]

Thanks Bob, tried that already but no luck.
As stated, I was able to at least power up the spindle earlier today, now I can't even do that.
Heading back out to the workshop to do some more wire jiggling. - Boyd

[Gary Campbell]

Boyd...
Have you installed the USB drivers AND the firmware?

[Stagecraft]

Okay back to weirdsville...
I went back out to the shop, tried powering up with no results.
I wiggled a few wires, hit reset and Bingo...power.
Having said that, I'm still not convinced this is a loose connection issue.
I powered down, connected the PC, the Bot did reset but the PC couldn't see it.
I switched the USB cable for another and everything powered up and I was happily jogging the gantry around the table with the keyboard.
I carefully ran the gantry to the e-stops to confirm that they were working properly, and they were.
Moments later I got the message saying the PC had lost connection etc.
Now I can't reset the Bot with or without the PC connected and there is still power availale to the control box.
I've tried complete power disconnects and reboots and still can't get the machine to reset.
This Bot has been extremely reliable, operating for years on this PC which is what I don't get...
I'm still wondering about those LEDs flashing 1-2-3 on the back of the board.

[ken_rychlik]

It could be a weak contactor not pulling in.

I would be checking voltage with a meter to see if it is marginal.

The led will do that flashing with the reset not pushed or not working for whatever reason.

When it comes back on try a wiggle test. You may have a loose wire somewhere.

[gene]

It sounds like a loose wire on the contactor. The clunk is the contactor closing. I would check the wires in that area

[Stagecraft]

At the risk of exposing myself for the electrical moron that I really am...what exactly do you mean by contactor?

[ken_rychlik]

The big black things in the top of the control box.

The low voltage in the bottom control board turns them on. When they kick in that is the clunk you hear.

If one of them is weak and not clunking in you would have your issue.

If a e-stop is not making good contact, it would not let the board send voltage to the contactor and that would also cause the same condition.

[ken_rychlik]

Contactor circled in red in the pic

[Stagecraft]

Thanks Kenneth I'll wander back to the shop and poke around a bit more.

[Stagecraft]

Nope, still no luck.
As far as I can tell all contacts are good and tight.
Just a thought; how would insufficient line voltage manifest itself?
Would I be getting the symptoms that I am?
Just how much voltage is required to get the reset solenoids to activate?

[ken_rychlik]

Try hitting the side of the aluminum box with a rubber hammer while you are pushing the blue button to see if it clunks in.

I had a contactor going bad for my spindle and one of them would click in, but not both of them. I would bump the aluminum box and it would fire up. Mine had two contactors for power to the drivers, and another set for spindle power.

If that doesn't do it, I would hot wire the e-stops temporarily to make sure that is not the cause.

I was thinking low voltage to the bot would maybe cause it, but if you had an electrician wire it up, I'm sure he checked that.

[Stagecraft]

A hammer?I used to have an old Camaro that occasionaly needed impact persuasion on the starter solenoid.
My electrician didn't check the voltage at the control box end.
Seeing as this machine was just being relocated the existing wiring to the box was left in place for the move.
I did tap the contactors while trying to reset (the control box door was open) but that had no effect.
The strange thing is that I did have everything running, albeit for a short time, and now nada.

[ken_rychlik]

I would go after the e stop next.

Do you have a continuity tester that beeps when the probes touch?

[Stagecraft]

No Kenneth I don't have the continuity tester you describe.
Although the emergency stop button was never pressed during testing and it's never given me issues in the past.
I did open it up and all the connections are secure.
At present I've pulled the Z-zero and table stop connections from the board.
When I power up and hit the blue reset I get a slight click from the box but not the louder clunk from the connectors resetting.
Gonna' call SB and see what they suggest.

[ken_rychlik]

The estop is the most common thing to cause what you have going on.

Here is a diagram on how to bypass it for a test. You need two short wires. Place them to connect the pins on the board like the picture shows. The blue connector is off to show what needs to be connected easier. Leave the connector on and place the jumper wires to hook up those pins.

What the e stop does is keep those two pairs of terminals connected. It breaks either or both connections when the button is pushed.

Just because the wires are tight in the box does not mean the switch or the wiring is ok.

This will eliminate the estop and you can go from there if it doesn't work.

[Stagecraft]

Kenneth, thanks again; jumping the connectors to the e-stop is exactly what Frank at SB suggested.
I tried it, and still no reset.
I did find one thing this morning; the 10/3 cable that runs from the control box to the VSD that drives the Colombo appears to have some degradation in a couple of spots.
Would an internal break in that cable result in the symptoms I'm getting?
I'm off to Home Depot to get cable to replace that one for safety reasons alone. - Boyd

[ken_rychlik]

Nope, That would not affect the reset. If they shorted out, it would blow the fuse in the control box.

While you are at home depot, you should get an inexpensive digital multmeter. I think your gonna need it to help figure some things out.

[Stagecraft]

I have a multi meter...where to start?

[ken_rychlik]

Take a picture of your multi meter and some pictures of the inside of your control box so I can see what you are working with. I can draw circles around where to test for what.

I will try to help get you through it. This should be fun. lol

If you want to email me direct, my web link is under my post.

[Stagecraft]

Mucho strange...was on the phone with Frank checking for 24v and 5v at the connection, which is exactly what the meter was showing.
Tried bridging the reset connections again...nothing.
Put the blue reset connector back on the board and voila...reset!
Must be the ghost in the machine.
We theorize that pressing that connector back onto the board may have flexed the board and fixed a loose connection somewhere.
Man I hate electrical work.
Anyways the system appears to be operational.
Thanks to all that replied and especially thanks to Kenneth.
This forum is one of the reasons we chose Shopbot in the first place! - Boyd

[ken_rychlik]

Glad to hear it is running.

If you have a loose solder joint on the board, that board flex could make contact for it.

It is very possible this "ghost" will return, but at least you have an idea of where the ghost is living. lol

[Stagecraft]

I give up...
Ran the machine, moved the gantry around, warmed up the spindle, great everything's working fine.
I power down, crawl back underneath and reconnect the proximity switches and z-zero plate.
Power on...nothing.
Jiggle the board and connections...nothing.
Jump the reset connections...nothing.
Remove the proximity and z connections...nothing.
Check the power at the board, 24v and 5v, just as it should be.

Anybody want a good deal on a PRT Alpha?

[ken_rychlik]

I'll give you 50 bucks for it. :rolleyes:

Unplug and re-plug all of the cables at the board.Jiggle the small controller card where it plugs into the big board.

Once before you said you wiggled something and it started also.

It is either a loose connections on a component or a loose or "cold" solder joint.

I had mine act like yours once, when I first got it. The wiggle of the small card that was plugged into the large circuit board took care of it on mine.

[Stagecraft]

Aaaargh!
Finally found the culprit.
As suggested, I started removing and re-tightening every connection in turn.
About a half hour into it, I (again) removed the blue connector to the E-stop, and like all the other connectors I was snugging up the connection screws when I discovered that the red wire (the second one in and hidden from sight) was secured by only a couple of strands of wire.
I re-stripped and re-connected the wires to that terminal and now the Bot is running just fine...at least for now.

[gene]

Does this mean you are not selling it ?:) Glad youre up and running again

[ken_rychlik]

Don't celebrate yet, but it sounds promising.

Run it a few days and let us know for sure.

What doesn't make sense is that you put jumpers in those spots on the e stop earlier and it still didn't run. Based on that info, there has to be more to it, but you are very close.

[Stagecraft]

Geez Kenneth, you're right.
I never even considered that fact.
Oh well...fingers crossed.