Bad shop! bad bad shopbot!

[chunkstyle]

Anyone have the spindle fire up while doing a Z-zero command?
My machine has done it a number of times in the past and more than a few times in the last few days. I have reported it to SB.
Today I was doing some carving with the dust boot off and had to change bits a few times. Had the spindle turn on twice! Damn lucky my hand wasn't near the bit. I really would like this addressed.
Also, while the machine was running away doing it's thing I was doing something else. I noticed that the sound had changed after 24k lines of code and the bit was sunk in a hole spinning away. ARRRG! It was almost finished! Then there's that pesky heat building up on the material.....
I wrote down the line of code it was stuck on in case I could pick it up from there.
Would anyone be able to give me a workaround to pick up from where the machine vapor locked?
Anyone know why the spindle would snap on doing a Z zero routine?

Got a call in to SB, maybe they'll have some insight. We'll see.

Thanks,
Tim

[knight_toolworks]

that's weird. is the 1 light on? check that alt 1 turns it off and on.

[chunkstyle]

Alt 1 does turn on and off. This has happened before. Even while talking to SB support on other issues. Still waiting for a call from SB.....

[myxpykalix]

Tim,
In the control software do a FG (File/Goto line) a dialog will pop up for you to input your info.

[chunkstyle]

Jack,
Thanks, I'll try that. Much appreciated. Hopefully, I can get the part finished today and sprayed. Have to get it installed tomorrow.
I swear, every time I turn on this machine I do so with a sense of foreboding (Wow! I finally got to use that word in a sentence).
Hopefully, today will be better.

[jim_rutske]

Tim, thankfully I have never had my router turn on during a ZZ; however my bot has gone crazy a few times. I have had it attempt to profile cut to China many times and lose lines of code and destroy the work. I have also had many lost comm errors that I was never able to recover from. My point is, I had two issues when resolved turned my bot back into a mindful and courteous bot.

The first was a ground issue. I had a ground wire running through the inside and outside of my dust collection hose. This wire was touching the Z car. I isolated this ground wire and since then I haven't had a single 'Johnny five alive' moment where the bot decided to do its own thing.

The second issue was my dust collection hose was running right next to my data lines and touching the end of the Y car. Here in New Mexico when I cut MDF and you touch the hose you will get shocked. I separated my dust hose from my data cable and suspended it from the ceiling. Perfecto, no more lost comm issues.

These were the most frustrating problems to figure out. I can't tell you how many hours I spent trying to troubleshoot until I figured it out. I don't know if any of this is your problem Tim but perhaps it can help someone else having similar issues.

Jim

[Ryan P]

The spindle would turn on if you had output switch #1 turned on. You do get a message box that the spindle it going to start. For the spindle to start you will need to have output switch 1 and 4 on. Number 4 automatically turns on anytime the tool is ready to move (moving an axis or when you open the keypad). If you turn switch number 1 on then move an axis with an M or J command a message will post telling you the spindle is going to start. Once you click ok to this message the spindle will start. If you have output #1 on and open the key pad the spindle will start without a message.

[michael_schwartz]

I have my router setup so I can reach up on top of the gantry and unplug it when changing bits.

[chunkstyle]

Ryan,
I have done just as you described on a number of occasions. In fact I just did it yesterday. I use the keypad to flip output 1 switch on to get my spindle warmed up. Don't use the warm up routine as the VFD communication gets knocked out as soon as the spindle starts. Occasionally I have closed the keypad with output one left one. When I do a move I do see the warning panel letting me know that the spindle will start with the proceed/cancel options. If I hit the cancel the window closes. No harm no foul.
What I have also experienced is the warning panel coming up AFTER the spindle snaps on. I will immediately hit the cancel button. Spindle stops momentarily and then starts again. Hitting the space bar again (over and over quickly :) brings panel back up and the spindle will then shut off.
I admit that I did not have the presence of mind to look and see if the output lights are on and, if so, which ones. I also admit that there is something that I could have set up to make this event occur. When it happens again I will be sure to notice the output lights and note if they are active or not.
On a final note, speaking with Frank about my mishaps Friday, I also remembered that the E stop button did not shut the spindle down when I found the spindle stuck in a location and the bit plunged in the material.
I hit the space bar first and then walked around to the back of the machine to the E-stop location. E stop didn't stop the spindle. Walked around the machine again and cut power to the control box as the last means to shut the spindle off.

[Gary Campbell]

Tim...
It may be in your best interest to make a warmup file. Here is an example from my warmup sub routine:

NOTE: example only, many of these code lines will not run on other machines. Use only those that apply to your machine!

WARMUP:
SO,8,1 'activate router start relay
TR,6000 'set start speed
PLAY D:\SbParts\Bell School Traditional.wav
PAUSE 1
SO,1,1 'turn on spindle 1
'SO,2,1 'turn on spindle 2 (rem by gc til spindle 2 added)
SO,8,0 'deactivate router start relay
PAUSE 60
TR,7000
PAUSE 60
TR,8000
PAUSE 60
TR,9000
PAUSE 60
TR,10000
PAUSE 30
TR,11000
PAUSE 30
TR,12000
PAUSE 60
SO,1,0 'turn off spindle 1
'SO,2,1 'turn off spindle 2 (rem by gc til spindle 2 added)
GOTO DONE

If you add a similar file, you can be assured that your outputs are in their normal state at end of file.

[chunkstyle]

Thanks Gary,

I assume that the TR command is to switch the RPM's of the spindle thru the vfd? If that is the case, it won't work on my machine on account of the lost com between the VFD and SB3 whenever the spindle is turned on. It would work if the spindle would shut off between speed changes so that communication between control software and VFD could be reestablished.
Only concern is if it would be self defeating for the purpose of protecting the bearings with all that start up again and again? If there is no problem having the spindle cycle on and off during warm up then I will definitely do as you suggest and modify the existing warm up routine.

Thanks for the advice,
Tim

[srwtlc]

Tim,

Talk with Frank at ShopBot, I had the same issue with the spindle control not working due to RFI noise when the spindle was turned on. It would also shut down my DSL modem each time I started the spindle. Frank suggested trying a RFI filter. It was model # D-MDC-30 Power Line Filter. After installing that, I was able to use the spindle controller card and my DSL modem has never been kicked out.

I think that the problems that many are having with spindles and the controller card are related to this situation.

Scott

[chunkstyle]

Thanks Scott,

We've already tried the RFI noise filter and that didn't solve the problem. I've tried powered USB cables with powered hubs and threw in a PCI/USB card. Still no luck. Ryan set me up with a three second pause whenever there is a tool change and rpm change to allow the VFD to communicate with the spindle, while the spindle is off, and make the change at the VFD.
This has worked for my E-cab files so far. When I can get up the scratch I have been contemplating replacing the computer as a last ditch effort in hopes of solving this issue as well as the vapor lock I get from time to time.
Thanks for the advice, it's appreciated.
Tim

[chunkstyle]

O.K. found a way to reproduce the spindle popping on.
Opened up manual keypad and switch on output 1. Let spindle go for 5 minutes at 6k, Let it run until the keypad panel clocks out and closes itself automatically.
Walk up to machine, hit "Load file" select file and fill out sheet pops up.
Hit 'O.K.' on fill out sheet.
Spindle pops on and output 1 light is on.
Warning panel comes up stating that spindle is about to start with "Proceed/ Cancel".
Hit "Cancel".
Spindle spinns down and panel closes.
Couple seconds and Spindle pops back on again!
Hit space bar and "quit/ Resume" panel pops up. Hit quit and spindle winds down.

Vapor lock:
Ran Paco's surfacing file (Thanks Paco!) to prep old board and glue down new Trupan.
Ran file on old board.
Loaded new Trupan on bed and ran file again to skin off face.
Glued down trupan, skinned side down.
Let glue set up and ran Surfacing file last time to prep top surface.
Upstairs in shop listening to machine and I don't hear any more cutting.
Go down to shut it off but the spindle is down at far end of bed, not moving, with 6" left to skin off.
Hit space bar-Nothing.
Hit E-Stop- nothing.
Shut down computer and hit E-stop- Nothing.
Throw power at control box to stop spindle.
Fire up computer and control box. Type "JH".
Gantry moves about 1" and stops.
X,Y reading 0,0 on SB3. Gantries on far end of table somewhere around 94,42.
I am so sick of trouble shooting this machine. I bought it to make money with. It has costs me much time (read money) and more money. It would be nice to get this fixed. This has been problematic from the get go.
I have grounded out the moving components as Gary has written about.
That has cured the sudden stops. RFI did not cure the VFD com issues. THere is still no solution from Shopbot for the Vapor lock. I would suggest that if the keypad clocks out then the output 1 should automatically shut down as well for those of us that are trying to get the flies off of our machines and may forget. Better yet, after hitting cancel when the router snaps on it should turn off and stay off.
Lastly, It would give me more confidence to know that the big red E-stop botton would do as it's called.
O.K. I feel just a tiny bit better. Bitch, mutter, grumble, moan......

[jimmya]

I don’t know if this problem I had is the same as yours, but, mine did the same thing. I could move the X axis, but, not the Y axis (all axis was reading that it was back to home). I found where the USB extension was plugged in, it was loose, so I pushed them together and it seemed to fix my problem.

Jimmy

[chunkstyle]

Thanks Jimmy,

Machines re-running the surfacing routine right now and appears to be running O.K. I'll wait untill it finishes and check em all.

Tim