137.5" w/s 10.2% Boeing B-47E IV FAI F4C Model

[Flite-Metal]

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=143856&stc=1&d=1298647238

I will be asking as much or more...than I show and tell...

This project began Thanksgiving 2009...Well that's not entirely true...I must confess...this project began as I sat on the front steps of my
childhood home in Kingsport, Tennessee. I sat there at least twice a week after school amidst the air raid sirens blaring moans across my
home town. I watched B-47E IV's practice bombing runs on the Holston Ordinance Div. of Eastman Kodak in the late afternoons after I had
walked home in anticipation of another daily warning at 4:00 pm or so.

Anyone living in an industrial community from '47 through the mid-60's had some element of "Duck & Cover" in their schools, church, and work.
Not many around me were interested in aviation quite as much as I. Obviously these events had an impact on me...Yes, most scale modelers
are at least a wee bit OCD. In my case, a portion of my flight routine during competition is to actually replicate what I sat and watched, back
-in-the-day as some call it.

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=136058&stc=1&d=1285432358
Practice bombing runs began at least four hundred miles Northeast at head end of the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia where B-47's initiated
their mission which concluded with an abrupt LABS maneuver as I sat watching the bomb bay doors open then an abrupt vertical climb
away to the right at full throttle heading toward Kentucky, across the mountains along the Tennessee, S/W Virginia, Kentucky border.

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=133157&stc=1&d=1281043741http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=133146&stc=1&d=1281037000

Imagine yourself sitting there watching this no less than twice a week for something like two months or so. It tended to leave a mark...
So here I sit getting ready to share, but more importantly to my project...ask questions of those with experience I desire to gain knowledge
from. Please be patient with me as I ask what may seem simple to most of you.

Design phase is all but complete. 2D drawings of airframe cross sections, air foils, etc. were brought together with traditional configurations
of r/c models to form a 157.75" wingspan electric powered replica of the Boeing B-47E IV. Yes, its electric powered with two 127mm ducted
fan in the inboard engine nacelles. I won't bore you with details, there are more than enough in these two threads withint WattFlyer.com.

Thread 1: http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52194

Thread 2: http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60561

[Flite-Metal]

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=143807&stc=1&d=1298492075

Above you see cross sections, aka formers, representing shape differenital through length of a B-47E IV fuselage obtained by meaning out
shape differentials from artist drawings, or in this case, the few drawings available for the B-47E. Manufacturers do not normally have the
multiple view drawings you find today. The only composite drawings created are for assembly~maintenance manuals, and marketing purpose.

The B-47 was created after an Air Force initiated design competition to obtain a jet bomber. Not to restate details, multiple manufactureres
were asked to submitted multiple considerations for the USA's first jet bomber. Ultimately this lead to not only the first USA jet bomber but
the world's first swept wing jet bomber. There was tremendous pressure to create this with the growing threats represented in the Cold War.

Physical design of our B-47E IV and a WB-47E (weather bomber) is comprised of CNC hot wired and milled Dow SurfBoard Foam® and Dow
Styrofoam®. Don't laugh, it really is named SurfBoard Foam®. Back in the 60's a surfer (named Spyder) worked with Dow to create an ultra
high sheer strength polystyrene he could make stronger surfboards from. Dow SurfBoard Foam® has vertical strands of solidified polystyrene.

Unlike normal blue Styrofoam's behavior when hot wired, Spyder's SurfBoard Foam® hot wire cuts leaving smooth surface free of hard residue.

[Flite-Metal]

Our need for milling is rather simple by comparison to what you guys do every day:

1. Front of the fuselage to just behind the cockpit.
2. Inboard and outboard engine nacelles.
3. Tail turrent section from the rudder post rearward.
4. Wing tanks.
5. Chin radar bulge.
6. Wing tips.

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=131470&stc=1&d=1278598655

Obviously with the cross sections in all these areas we can loft, or I should say I would expect to loft 'tween shapes across the to-be-milled
sections. I would like some feedback on this operation within Aspire and if PartWorks has lofting capabilities.
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=143856&stc=1&d=1298647238

The above image represents the individual section components. The front section has a removable nose piece so we can hot wire the internal
diamond cavity which provides tension and compression so everything stays straight. There are two hot wired sections for the center portion
of the fuselage. The formers beneath the blue tinted drawing show where each section of the entire fuselage parts.

Transport of something this large could be problematic, except when it comes to sizing a project for your vehicles...:) The wing parting line is at
in inboard engine pylon. Outboard of this point plugs into the wing center section which is also the fuselage center section.

[Greybarn]

I am not sure about lofting those pieces in Aspire or Partworks but I do know it could be done with th e program we use. We use a 3D solid molding program called Solid Edge and it could easily loft those shapes. We have been exporting 3D shapes from the Edge into Partworks 3D and have been very happy with the results.
Looks like a fun project especially at that scale!
Regards
Peter

[Flite-Metal]

I've been down the CAD/CAM path (pun intended) many times over the most recent twenty years of my modeling obsession...reaching the same
point, project after project.

The issue is always everything had to be drawn, traced, rendered, before the real work could begin. Those of you who have traveled the path
less followed over the last twenty plus years to this reading understand exactly that of which I reference.

This wears thin on every resource's patience resulting in dimenishing returns of their and my investment. My perfect tool box will deliver virtually
ready to use files to my CAD resource person. After having reviewed Aspire early on and realizing its capabilities, I had confidence my tool kit
was nearing reality.

The passage of time brings advances in technology and utilities with which to integrate it into my projects. Packaging of ShopBot with PartWorks
the Aspire extraction results in V-carve Pro and Cut-3D for cut path. I desire to learn to what degree PartWorks may provide lofting capabilities.

Scale modelers must deal with analog shapes, aka cross sections, as baseline resources. They evolve from photographic and artist renderings from
engineered drawings created for maintenance and 1:1 aircraft assembly manuals.

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=118432&d=1263780626

Aviation manufacturers do not use multiple perspective drawings, they have no purpose outside of marketing and artistic value. The whole is assembled
from literally thousands of subassemblies...few workers know what finished aircraft looks like outside marketing's artist renderings.

Lofting is an ultimate resource tool, yet it is usually a utility within a CAD program that has its own issues of having to learn how to fly to the moon
in order to cross the street. Not to sound rude or demeaning, I'm simply sharing the typical scale modelers dilemma. With lofting comes the bridge from
analog cross sections to .stl more than any other task within the CAD/CAM tool kit.

ShopBot brings together a package I and my fellow modelers are excited about...after considerable review over the last 19 months. Many promise yet
never fulfill what they claim within the modeling community's CAD community. This being CAD/CAM skilled DYI oriented individuals who marry their real
world occupations with their "newly found" hobby. This always results in a DYI solution for CNC milling and hot wire because they seek to achieve the
fastest task fulfillment beyond that skill set they possess.

The above leaves long term scale modelers having to "either" learn full blown CAD or suffer the fate I referenced earlier when a resource suddenly finds
something new to tweak their skill set. The going rate for true CAD/CAM is way above that which the typical modeler can afford...yet they dream of a
solution. I believe ShopBot DeskTop with PartWorks/Aspire provides "the" solution. There is an untapped market out there. A market which is already
spending $ with someone else's skill set, not enhancing their own.

[bleeth]

Ed:
Asked and answered previously!!
You can not loft in Partworks as it is not capable of creating 3-d shapes. It can cut an imported 3-d shape in certain file formats.
You can loft 1/2 hulls in Aspire. It does create 3-d shapes and can combine shapes in different layers as well. The issue in Aspire for your purposes is if the lofted form created from the station shapes is not to your likeing it is much more tedious to "fair" the surface then it is in programs that are made to loft such as Prolines. In Aspire you would need to reset the shape to flat, tweak the stations, and then recreate the shape possibly in a series of steps depending on the shape. In a hull generating program if you need to change a station a bit you simply change it in the section and then hit "loft".

You can download a demo of Aspire for free and I would suggest you do so. You will learn much that way very quickly. The tutorials are excellant as is the program.

Dave

[Flite-Metal]

Dave,

Thank you for repeating your post in my initial testing of this forum's operation.

I am not being a "Doubting Thomas", I am opening up a discussion from which I desire to reap the wealth of knowledge across the
accumulative experience of this forum's participants. Please do not think I am discounting what anyone states as their protocols
and experiences. Consider me a blank page, or as most do...a void in need of filling :)

Over the years of managing out sourced services I came to realize each of them were the result of where their skill set was prior
to where they were at the time I was introduced to them. Remember, most of the time they were or had been modelers at some
point. This provided a common base line for our conversations.

I am left with not understanding the functionality of PartWorks as a utility. It was extracted from Aspire. What is its functionality
with respect to design? I understood Cut-3D to be for defining cut path.

A). What is the functionality of PartWorks (as extracted from Aspire)?

B). What is PartWorks' functionality which does not benefit from lofting?

Yes, the tutorials were and have been viewed since this began. I know that may sound as if I didn't believe what I saw and read,
however you should know I have a close friend with two $275k plus CNC mills in California utilized in his cabinet business. He is a
modeler and at this point has completed something like four 3D college courses covering three protocol.

Now, you need to understand his business has been successful considering he has milled custom cabinets & architectural elements
for multi-million dollar residences and businesses for twenty years. However, with the downturn in the economy he thought about
integrating his hobby interests into his vocation.

Cut-3D was acquired, however it failed to be capable of driving John's two 8' x 15' multi-axis mills...after a factory recommended tech
made two $400 a day visits. John eventually received a refund with return of the software. Yes, I understand not all hardware can be
driven by any one software. That is why I am focused on ShopBot with its integration of PartWorks extracted from Aspire.

[bleeth]

Many users of partworks find that the 2-d design capabilities are sufficient to their needs. This may include cabinetmakers, patternmakers, etc. Because one can, for example, pocket a defined area leaving the balance uncut it can create signs. The v-carving aspect of it is also useful in sign making and also for forming texture patterns. A full explanation of the software can be found here:

http://www.shopbottools.com/mProducts/software.htm

[Flite-Metal]

While I have yet to view the PartWorks tutorial since my conversation with Dianne the latter part of last week, I will do so.
Dianne directed me here to better understand PartWorks functionality from those using it. This to learn more of differential
between PartWorks and Aspire.

I am in the midst of a corporate startup and have been posting here while working on another computer. This is more or less
my B-47 project notebook.

Over the course of the last 19 months. I have viewed and reviewed the excellent Aspire tutorials. I sought a down and dirty
review of PartWorks with respect to what I intend to create as a tool box for scale modeling. I have yet to disclose the full
purpose of my inquiries here. I am not alone. I and others seek to achieve this...

David, in an earlier post in the "test" thread section, you made reference to a hull program and its lofting utility.

A: What is that program's name?

B: Was it a professional boat building program or a modeling utility with lofting?

C: Did it permit head, rear and side views for alignment purposes?

In aviation we work with multiple datum lines in the inter-relationship of shapes across an entire fuselage. A typical fuselage
shape begins low and rises on the opposite end. Datum lines travel from ahead of the fuselage through its concentricy to
beyond the rear of it.

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=120209&d=1265763892

This is important with respect to making sure my internal diamond is lined up perfectly from section to section. The diamond
is cut using CNC hot wire before the exterior is hot wired. The to-be-milled pieces will be hot wired internally before milling.
The diamond is comprised of three elements.

A: After the diamond shape is cut and removed from all fuselage components, bias-cut balsa is formed into a rectangle the
dim of each diamond side and laminated with carbon fiber vale. Each rectangle is inserted and glued to each of the four
diamond sides to impart T/C (tension and compression).

B: A center spline of bias-cut carbon vale laminated balsa is inserted laterally through center of laminated diamond interior
of the fuselage.

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=120333&stc=1&d=1265894221

This alone constitues the internal T/C element so when 1/8th balsa applied to the exterior of the B-47 with 1/6th ounce to
the sq yd fiber glass cloth is bias laminated with 40% alcohol diluted epoxy resin, the shape of the fuselage will not change.

Two triangles are created from bias-cut balsa then laminated with carbon fiber vale as the insert spanning each side of the
diamond fore and aft from the fuselage sections. The triangles with four pins and receivers across face of each parting pt.
of fuselage maintain shape continuity and strength to survive hard landings. One triangle is inserted in the top to the rear
and the second is inserted in the bottom half of the diamond and forward triangle receiver.

While I am involved in computer systems, I desire to enable a community with the Shopbot DeskTop, PartWorks, and Cut3D to
empower them to achieve what they seek with integration of CAD/CAM to their extensive modeling skill set without having to
go to the moon to cross the street.

[khalid]

Hi Ed,
Your model seems to me very easy as almost all the curves are known and can be extracted. Mostly, CAM programs gives limited functionalities of CAD, especially those that are less expensive or for hobbiest use.
If i was in your place i have to design your aircraft in 3D Studio Max(free versionGMax) or ZBrush as they are meant for generating the 3D Models from the pictures. I would then export pieces of that model and then use any CAM software like CUT3D or MeshCam (low cost softwares) to generate two sided toolpaths for it.
Keep in mind that you have only a 3-axes machine so you can not do undercuts on 3D model. If the Model is too big in height you can use then the Slice functionality of CUT3D.
I have no association with Vectric Product except that they are very good people to deal with.

[khalid]

One more Question:
If you make skeleton of fuselage with Balsa then why to Loft?

[beacon14]

PartWorks contains all the 2D tools but none of the 3D sculpting or toolpathing tools from Aspire (unless you consider v-carving to be 3D). For the work I do I use PartWorks 99% of the time and Aspire 1% at most. There are plenty of people who find PartWorks to be more than adequate for their needs, but it sounds to me like it will not be of much use to you since you specifically need the 3D tools.

Cut3D will produce toolpaths for almost any 3D model but it will not create or modify a 3D model except for the ability to scale the size.

More information is available on the Vectric web site. PartWorks is the exact same program as V-Carve Pro, with the exception that it will only create toolpaths for the ShopBot while V-Carve Pro will output code for any of dozens (hundreds?) of different machines.

[Flite-Metal]

Obviously words are getting in the way of content context... :^)

I have posted broad elements of our project to enable readers to understand what this project is...words are obviously
getting in the way of my questions which continue either mis-understood...or unanswered. :) David posted during the
time I created this post. Thanks for your feedback.

David, thank you for delineating PartWorks for me. It is always difficult to understand what is not explained explicitly.
Seems to be a malady of the CAD~CAM industry... :) I have fallen victim to reading and reading into what I read to
come to a faux conclusion in the absence of explicit definition on the part of those who created the text.

I have Aspire's downloads and enjoyed Vectric's tutorials. About 17 months ago this led me to conclude Aspire would be
an integral part of my evolving tool kit. However, ShopBot's web site, nor 1:1 conversations ever explained differential
of PartWorks as an extraction from Aspire. Not intending to sound curt...its the industry wide malady I mention above.
Too close to the fire for too long to appreciate the ambiant temperature is not that of the analog world.

Replies to this thread reply as if I am looking for a 3D CAD program...yet back when I stated we use SolidWorks as our
3D CAD it was apparently overlooked by readers...aka apparently, I squeezed it beneath the edge of screen text.

I have tried to illustrate our process, however I believe because everyone reading the thread knows CAD and is so pre-
disposed to create what you have seen...in CAD...you are automatically thinking in terms of CAD, not analog.

What you were looking at is the result of 19 months of research...virtually a daily routine...aka grind. Perhaps I should
have started this thread more simply and explained the process of "Scratch-Building".

Scratch-Building "building a replica of a 1:1 full size aircraft" is a three step process.

A. Rank Chosen Subject's Probability Of Successful Replication.

1. Not all 1:1 aircraft can be replicated to perform in kind to the 1:1.
2. Establish index of in-kind aircraft which have competed successfully.

A close friend replicated the Tu-95, winning every contest it was entered in. The Tu-95 is a parity
to the B-47 in its baseline design. However, the Tu-95 is contra-rotating turbo-prop powered...not an
axial flow jet powered aircraft.

B. Gather Documentation (Accurate & validated, published documentation can be obscure or difficult to acquire.)
Why? :) Documentation is utilized by scale contest judges to compare to my replica to award points for accuracy
of my replica.

1. Documentation is comprised of graphic and technical resource with which to replicate features and function of
1:1 airframe. Documentation is motion and still film, books, witness statements, artist and engineer renderings.
2. Documentation is acquired from manufacturers, internet, libraries, and retailers. All renderings are validated the
all differentials are meaned to comply with photographic documentation.
3. Documentation items number in the "thousands" before final project configuration is arrived at.

C. Power Management Review
1. AUW, (All Up Weight) estimate of finished replication is calculated from material and parity airframe specs.
A1. AUW is calculated by establishing unit thrust X 1.62 (power to weight ratio) minimum required for proper power.

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=123249&stc=1&d=1268867477

A, B, and C constitute "step one" of the this three step process to determine if a given airframe can be successfully
flown as a replica at a given size. Size is mandated by physical attributes and results of thrust analysis of available
power systems. After all if it can not be powered properly to fly...don't waste any more time. ;^) Step one typically
requires six months to resolve.

[Flite-Metal]

Khalid

This project is a composite constructed replica comprised of CNC hot wired and CNC milled high density Dow Styrofoam®
and Dow SurfBoard Foam®, formerly know as SpyderFoam® skinned in 1/8" blasa, then .6 ounce to the square yard fiber
glass cloth is applied on its weave bias with 40% denatured alcohol dilution of epoxy finishing resin. Finally Flite-Metal is
applied to the exterior of the B-47 replicating individual aluminum panels on a full size B-47E IV and WB-47B.

Yes, we are constructing two B-47 replica.
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=142595&d=1296403168

This project is not a balsa and plywood built up structure. The fuselage cross sections I have shown were created from
hand drawn cross sections appearing on seven (7) different renderings and brought to a common meaned base line perimeter
drawing validated as being correct in shape by lengthy photographic comparison. Each cross section is appended with a series
of datum lines to permit accurate alignment with the balance of the sections comprising the whole.

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=143807&stc=1&d=1298492075

Perhaps this will provide a better perspective of how these elements relate to the whole. This image is quite large, yet it
is not at 10.2% of the 1:1 for sake server displacement.

Click to view: http://004edc4.netsolhost.com/B47/B47Lines/FuseCompositeFormersJMaster.jpg

[khalid]

Hi Ed,
Now i can see what a great work you are doing... The amount of details and the material for fabrication... I am sorry i can not help you but will keep watching your progress with zeal and interest.
Thanks for sharing your great work with us.
Regards

[Flite-Metal]

Hi Ed, Now I can see what a great work you are doing... The amount of details and the material for fabrication... I am sorry I can
not help you but will keep watching your progress with zeal and interest. Thanks for sharing your great work with us. Regards

Khalid,

If you want to review the construction project the project is being posted in a thread to illustrate the process of scratch building. There
are two of three threads currently posting in WattFlyer.com. The titles explain what each contains. Threads are enjoying a considerable
following thus far.

1: In The Beginning
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52194

2: In The Middle
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60561

[Flite-Metal]

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=136546&d=1286204499

This will provide an element of scale so you can see the airframe size. The project is currently in final audit and subject to minor changes in engine
nacelle sizes as we near selection of LiPo NaNo battery capacity and packaging. We hope newest iron anode technology will come to market before
we have to purchase two sets of batteries for each B-47. New anode composition is claimed to reduce mass by 40% and increase capacity by 50%.

My flight rounds are 7 to 8 minutes in length but I need a loiter time to offset issues which may occur with the other competitors (3) ahead of me
as I perform my flight plan. If either of the three were to have an incident preventing me from landing at the end of this anticipated 8 minutes, I do
need to stay airborne...until they clear the runway ;^) A minor detail...

[Flite-Metal]

I quickly found answers in Vectric's tutorials. This one really homes in on the key feature to expedite our projects...lofting.

http://www.vectric.org/video/aspire3/overview/X10-2%20Rail%20Sweep%20Overview_media/X10-2%20Rail%20Sweep%20Overview-web.html

[Flite-Metal]

More information is available on the Vectric web site. PartWorks is the exact same program as V-Carve Pro, with the exception that it will only
create toolpaths for the ShopBot while V-Carve Pro will output code for any of dozens (hundreds?) of different machines.
__________________
David Buchsbaum


Thank you David,

I have reviewed all the online tutorials. There are inferences I had hoped to resolve their reality or smoke here in he forum. Vectric will not turn
loose of their two DVD tutorial to enable us to learn more about what we have read in what has been inferred. Dianne was helpful in confirming
what we had assumed from what we watched and read.

Dianne was helpful today when I called her to ask this question. She listened to my question and translated it into the following question along
with a positive response. I will place the question here in graphic form so everyone will hopefully understand it clearly.

Below are cross sections at various stations across the length of the B-47E IV and WB-47B. Each represents a change in shape.
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=143807&stc=1&d=1298492075

The lofting, aka rail sweep tutorial illustrates a "pair" of rails. I listened as the tutorial spoke in terms of the introduction of a shape transition 'tween
what would be the two individual rails. Another more complex tutorial in the Aspire web site further illustrated multiple rails, comprised of at least six
cross sections. This showed a clockwise decending helix which began large and reduced in area to its end.

[german]

Hi Ed,
The pieces you descrive are very easy to acomplish using Aspire, it is just patience an creativity matters, Here are some sample views of the Fuel Tank.

German.

[Flite-Metal]

Hi Ed, The pieces you descrive are very easy to acomplish using Aspire, it is just patience an creativity matters, Here are
some sample views of the Fuel Tank. German.

Yes, German:

This is an attribute I recognized early on...over 129 months ago. I and my partners in this project already have 3D capability with SolidWorks. 3D CAD
was and never has been an issue.

As you are obviously aware of, it is the ramp up, original work up, and validated image which when converted to CAD utilizing traditional processes is
a time consuming activity.

All my original raster drawing audits and corrections occur as a matter of the scratch building process. It is always necessary to assure drawings reflect
a photographic documentation collection (1000's of photos) which is comprised of photos showing every angle and crevise of the subject aircraft.

Recognizing what appeared to be Aspire's lofting capabilities as witnessed in their online tutorials combined with the linear
and vertical slice capability of Cut3D presented me with what appeared to be "the" tool I sought to expedite my projects.

Dianne believes the manner and detail in which I asked questions presented an obstacle for those with knowledge of Aspire to fear I expected greater
precision than is actually expected as a result of the use of Aspire.

I have never been accused of not providing detailed information :^) Its apparently a case of too much.

German, my question at this point is in the process of lofting the example you posted, how many cross sections were in the rail sweep within Aspire?

Below, I provide an example of the front of the fuselage which we desire to mill. I am aware this may have to lofted/rendered in multiple sweeps brought
together to form the desired to-be-milled shape that is then sliced in two inch tall segments.

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=12005&stc=1&d=1302619960

There is a nose parting point shape which extends from either the fourth cross section from the front to facilitate the CNC hot wiring of two fuselage
center sections. The foam section between the right and the above parting point has an internal CNC hot wired diamond shape within it.
In this illustration I show former differential from front to rear along length of the B-47. The rear turrent section is another milled section as shown
previously.

I look forward to your next post... :)

[german]

For the example posted I used just one section on the center of the shape and it was taken from one of the plans you post.

[german]

That it is correct, you just have to have the profiles for the 2 rails to follow

[Flite-Metal]

German,

Thank you for the function and form confirmation. I have two addtional questions.

Indexing:

This relates to alignment of rail section to rail section. A rail section being the shape between two half fuselage shapes in sequence.

What is the maximum number of rails which can be lofted together? I ask because within Aspire's limited online tutorial it shows multiple vector
rails lofted sequencially within a single screen to form a helical shape which changes dims from its beginning to end. This was much like a horn-
of-plenty as it curves around.

I do not desire to create a horn-of-plenty :) but to understand the number of rails which can be brought together in a single unit for CNC milling.

The second portion of my question is a result of what Dianne said at ShopBot.

Dianne said an imported vector drawing, whether it be a single or a composite of multiple vectors are brought into Aspire together for sweeping is
assigned an initial X~Y position related to I assume a "corner" of the virtual rectangle with a group of vector images arranged with proper
alignment one unto the others in the composite as it appears in the Aspire screen view and working/editing space.

[german]

Rails, I think just two can be worked, but whitin the two Rails meny cross sections are allowed, I sugest that you download the Aspire demo and try it for yourself, it is very easy to work with.

[Flite-Metal]

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=12005&stc=1&d=1302619960

In the above composite shape there are multiple rails, aka cross sections aligned with the aid of a series of red indexes or as they are named in aviation
design...datum lines.

These lines, typically ten to twenty per aircraft, provide the component to component alignment relationship as various sections of the entire airframe
are brought together to form the sum of the parts (components) after they are created. A key function and the key word in the above description is
"after they are created".

These alignment marks, indexes, are used in the analog world to assure the individual components and sections comprising an individual component are
aligned when brought together to form the shape as a whole.

Am I to correctly assume raster drawings I bring into Aspire properly spaced from the original raster drawing positioning one unto the other in sequence
will be swept in a yet to be disclosed rail sweep section that forms the whole, section by sequencial section?

Aspires minimum disclosure tutorial of this functionality showed I believe...four to six rails together in a single vector group. Without having the two DVD
tutorial to learn from, it is assumed the imported vector drawing can be assigned segments or individual rail segments along a "length" of a to-be-milled
segment.

Please, because of language differential, be patient in answering and ask if you need me to ask something differently... :) I understand if Mark and Brian
were confused by my project inquiries it will be easy to confuse you...though it would appear you do understand exactly that which I desire to achieve
with Aspire and ShopBot. :)

Yes, I have the Aspire download. Rather than slave through the whole of bytes and bits for hours, I sought to ask those who work with Aspire 3v so I
can literally save the downtime. I do understand the vestment required to learn a software product, it is my real world occupation :) I do not want to
appear to be trying to achieve a short hand learning curve. The bottom line is, I hope to find out from people using Aspire if it is capable of doing what
I believe it is...

I truely appreciate the time you have taken to reply to my inquiry. I am building a pair of 10.2% B-47 jets (B-47E IV and WB-47B). These to compete in
FAI F4C, AMA 515, and USSMA competitive flying scale modeling events, worldwide. Your and the assitance of others within this forum, Dianne, Dave,
Brian, Mark, Khalid, and the many others who have contributed so much to my understanding of how ShopBot and Aspire can permit me to be a better
competitor is greatly appreciated.

Everyone has been patient in dealing with my ignorance as I come into your knowledge base space, eager to match what I have extracted from tutorials
witnessing capabilities which will enable me to create a virtual tool box for initial creation of raster images rendered in 3D with which to export in proper
file format to enable another of our project team to edit within Solid Works. The resulting final .stl will then be output through Cut3D to mill with ShopBot
DeskTop CNC. Resulting milled components are brought together to form the desired component "section" of the desired model.

I have several projects this will enable expediting to physical model more rapidly than is possible utilizng existing processes. Existing processes for this are
typically 48 months, start to finish. My current project process has reduced this to less than 24 months. With the proper tools, this can be reduced to a
less than 12 month length of time...given the foreground components can achieve what I believe they can...as they exist, today.

[Flite-Metal]

Rails,I sugest that you download the Aspire demo and try it for yourself, it is very easy to work with.

German,

The Aspire demo does not permit importation of my cross sections. It is apparently designed to interact with existing rails only. :(

[Flite-Metal]

Does the rail sweep functionality exist within PartWorks?

[adrianm]

Does the rail sweep functionality exist within PartWorks?

No it's part of Aspire and isn't in VCarve/Partworks.

[Flite-Metal]

Building a list of functionality questions from the limited demo functionality. I would think these would be considered a baseline attribute to manage
any Aspire project.

Q1. Grouped Vectors. Is this the function enabling multiple vectors to form a single component as illustrated in the demo?

Below is an example of what would be a typical group of vectors that would comprise a section of the completed piece. Red line is a common datum.

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=12011&stc=1&d=1302701347

[tmerrill]

I know you have got me confused and you have made some incorrect statements along the way.

The trial version of Aspire is fully functional with the exception of EXPORTING vectors and creating toolpaths for other than the supplied samples.

You can IMPORT files such as .dxf and .eps without problem - I just imported both an .dxf and .eps with the trial version to confirm before posting.

You should be able to spend your time with the trial version and answer these questions to your satisfaction. There are also 3 web pages of video tutorials that take you through basic operations to 3D functions. Not having the complete set provided as part of the purchase of Aspire should not be an issue at this time.

Good luck,
Tim

[Flite-Metal]

I know you have got me confused and you have made some incorrect statements along the way.

My reply is within your post.

The trial version of Aspire is fully functional with the exception of EXPORTING vectors and creating toolpaths for other than the supplied samples.

The import "hyper text" is non-functional in the software download of 3.v I have.

You can IMPORT files such as .dxf and .eps without problem - I just imported both an .dxf and .eps with the trial version to confirm before posting.

You should be able to spend your time with the trial version and answer these questions to your satisfaction. There are also 3 web pages of video
tutorials that take you through basic operations to 3D functions. Not having the complete set provided as part of the purchase of Aspire should
not be an issue at this time.

I came to this forum "after" reviewing the old and new tutorials over the last 19 months. I spoke with Scott this morning in Durham
and he said my assumptions are correct across the board.

We discussed the resolution issue Aspire has due to its use of boxels.

Scott confirmed I can use an indexing layer containing my original analog registry control X-Y "red" lines with the to-be-rail-swept shapes positioned
one unto the next could serve as a positioning tool for baking components.

In a few short minutes I was able to confirm and verify what I assumed to be possible.

Good luck,
Tim

Thank you for your input...

I could not find any obvious setting to permit importation. Strange that it would require a setup selection to permit importation. Importation button
(hyper text) is grayed out and non-functional... However, the help functions perfectly and has answered most of my questions :) Would have been
nice to have seen the degree of auto-trace and pixel snap-to sensitivity control.

[Flite-Metal]

So many of you have been using 2D and 3D CAD for a long time and perhaps are so close to that flame to recall back in the dark ages scale modelers
used pencil and paper. This is understandable because those who do remember saw it an anchor to which you felt tied down in your creativity. It is
that creativity that drives both artistic avocation and vocation.

http://www.midwestmetalworks.com/images/photos/drafting/drafting_180x119.gif

In my use of media, regardless of its format, it is a tool to utilize to an advantage in achieving my goal to replicate as closely as possible (read that as
within reason) a 10.2% replica of a 1:1 aircraft. That weighed against the multiple sets of every changing guidelines and protocols within the world of
competitive flying scale modeling presents not only physical but protocol challenges.

My present target is FAI F4C competitive events. Traditionally this would be a four to five year building and finishing project. 20 months ago I started
collecting documentation and researching alternative construction to both expedite and increase the initial accuracy of project baseline construction.
Not unlike that of a friend's project at a much smaller 1/16th scale. I say smaller, though Dave's project will probably appear quite large to most of you.

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=145584&d=1301446852

It would surprise you to find out even at this large size the internal displacement, though it is an open built up frame structure, leaves little room for the
necessary components required to sustain flight. Traditional construction would have a marriage of light wood and composite materials in the form of an
open framed structure which when completed is wrapped in thin wood then laminated with .6 oz/sq.yd. fiber glass cloth and epoxy resin binding agent.

I believe in Dave's case he will be covering his model in aluminum colored heat shrunk Monokote plastic film. It has a heat activated adhesive backing to
adhere to primed sheeted wood after it is sanded to provide as smooth a to-be-applied-to surface as possible. Though this would appear somewhat like
a metal surface, it is not "The Look Of The Real Thing"© like is found when http://www.scaleaero.com/wWEBLOGOSML.gif© is applied to the smooth exterior of a model.

http://www.aviation.ru/contrib/dmaiorana/Ohio-2000/FrontR.jpg

[Flite-Metal]

As you can see this OCD exercise can achieve close to a "replica" state...

These images are of George Maiorana's Tu-4 Russian knock off of Boeing's B-29 bomber after several B-29's were unable to return to their bases in the
Pacific and forced to land on an island in the North Pacific. After escorting the US crews off the island Tupelov began a reverse engineering operation
which eventually led to Russia replicating the Boeing B-29 in the form of the Tu-4 and China creating a new AEW (airborne early warning) planform in
their turboprop powered Tu-4 AEW.

http://www.aviation.ru/contrib/dmaiorana/Fuse_etc.jpg

http://www.aviation.ru/contrib/dmaiorana/R_wstar2.jpg

http://www.aviation.ru/contrib/dmaiorana/Almost.jpg

http://www.scaleaero.com/scaleaero/Right_Top_Dowm.jpg

http://004edc4.netsolhost.com/B47/B47Lines/3200%20FrontWFormers.gif
http://004edc4.netsolhost.com/B47/B47Lines/1gani.gif

[Flite-Metal]

While I have wanted to replicate the B-47's which practice bombing runs on my hometown when I was in grade school...there were technical issues
that relate to both power to fly the model, and its swept wing design which alone presents many control issues which mimic the 1:1 B-47.

The Tu-95 Russian "Bear" swept wing contra-rotating turboprop powered bomber and the Boeing B-47 are virtual parities in design. From this video
forward...my project has been "designing" what I sat on my front door step watching every afternoon after grade school in the mid '50's instead of
speculation that it "might fly", once built.

http://004edc4.netsolhost.com/FliteMetalimages/Customers/George Tu-95/Tu-95 Second Flight.wmv

Then this began:

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=12177&stc=1&d=1304192933

[Flite-Metal]

I revised the size of our project as it went through the analog to CAD process and a power management system change.
We were fortunate to have had counterparts in several areas of the States who wanted to build the same aircraft model
for R/C.

Between three individuals, we were able to validate and fill in resource voids with actual physical measurement, review
and copying of virgin micro fische images never viewed before, and close-up images which served to translate what
appeared to be in contradiction.

Below is an example of the fruit of our efforts .

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=18448&stc=1&d=1374682725

[Flite-Metal]

One of the individuals in this group doing mutual research resource management is a retired engineer from the Newport News Shipbuiding.
His experience delt with old school engineering with a wee bit of 2D CAD.

He acquired a copy of Ashlar-Vellum Cobalt 3D CAD software and promptly progressed to creating .AR files which were created as skins
and not 3D solid geometry shapes.

I have a copy of the AVC Share program which permits me to view and export these files in a number of output formats. One of which is .STL.

Within my project resources was an individual in Arlington, TX with a 5 axis
CNC mill with which he was going to use our 3D CAD files to mill the afore mentioned sections of the two models...fuselage front from
leading edge forward, inboard and outboard nacelles, rear tail turret sheath, and the radome fuselage chin.

I am looking for someone within this forum who can test mill one of the files to see if in fact this can be accomplished to overcome the
issue we face by not being able to mill due to the fact the files are skins and not solid geometry.

If you are interested in working with me to mill these items with either Cut3D, ShopBot's version of the mill control program or another
which currently slices and mills .STL CAD files....please email me at wmclayman@comcast.net

I appreciate the assistance this forum has provided during our ShopBot and Aspsire inquiries. It was most helpful to guide us through
another knowledge resource.

Look forward to receiving your response to this request for assistance.

[Flite-Metal]

I wanted to provide the proper sectional breakdown of the nacelle when it is milled. Red lines show parting points of individual milled
sections to enable the undercut/slope to be properly milled. I seek someone who would run a test file to see if the .stl file we have
can be milled.

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=18461&stc=1&d=1374868838