How do you.......?

[signtist]

I've got a question about pocket cuts used for the backgrounds on signs.
I'm starting to avoid some of these because it always leaves a machine pattern, or worst, a different level that needs too much sanding.
Especially shows on PVC.
Sometimes I can't justify the extra time to texture cut the background.
(Due to selling price)
I heard talk of spray paint texture for auto body rocker panels. Does this sound like something that would camouflage the background a little better.
Before painted with flat latex.
I know smalts works great. That's why the started using it in the first place. To hide rough, crude panels.

John www.signgraphics1.com (http://www.signgraphics1.com)

[tuck]

If you can get away with it, Valspar Stone textures do the trick nicely. Valspar paints are sold at Lowes, both in gallons and rattle cans. The rattle can paints do the job beautifully, but color choices are limited. Goes on thick with a nice look and completely hides machine patterns.

[jhedlund58]

my wife's uncle paints housed for a living.... won't use any but valspar... there r not many paint manufacture's left... look at small print on product... they make a lot of stuff for a lot of people

[CNYDWW]

Why not try going with the flow. I used a high step over and a ball nosed bit to make these signs out of pvc. It was done in my old machine and is simply a 2d pocket. 1/4" 4 flute ball nose at 100ipm 50% step over. That is a bit slow however this wasn't a shopbot. I set a raster angle along the y axis of my machine simply because the larger signs were indexed through my machine.

Regards
Randy

[joewino]

John - the extra time to cut a textured background is not your time...it's the machine doing the job. Punch the button and go do something else. If it takes a few extra hours you haven't made any less on the job - actually you can charge a little more.

If I make a mistake on a sign I just tell the customer it was done deliberatelly to improve the design, but that I'm not going to charge them for it. Got that from Gary Anderson.

[joe]

John,

Greetings my friend. I know exactly what you're talking about The technique I often use is to fill the well of the letters with epoxy. I most often add a little one shot. As you know, a little misting with alchohol will give it a brilliant gloss. A salt shaker with a little fine sand sprinkled on, before she sets up, will alter the gloss. Another fill material is 50% bondo and 50% fiberglass resin. When mixed together it flows out like molases and can be painted.

Please post more of your outstanding work. It's allways a treat to see what you're doing.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e115/jcrumley1/IMG_1863.jpg

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)
www.jcrumley1@cox.net (http://www.jcrumley1@cox.net)

[knight_toolworks]

I like that epoxy method. do you thin it down so it flows better or use a runnier epoxy?

[joe]

SK,

Most epoxy will flow out without much attention, exept for the quick setting types. I like the slow stuff.

You know.........
there are Fast Signs
I make S L O W Signs.
It's better work.

JC

[knight_toolworks]

quick set costs too much. if it does not flow hitting it with a hot air gun will make it flow and help release bubbles too.

[mario]

Joe, what do you use for coloring the epoxy?

[jerry_stanek]

SK,

Most epoxy will flow out without much attention, exept for the quick setting types. I like the slow stuff.

You know.........
there are Fast Signs
I make S L O W Signs.
It's better work.

JC


Joe is making a sign

SLOW MEN WORKING that is for us older guys that are not as fast as the younger ones any more

[joe]

Jerry,
Is this what you had in mind?

SLOW CHILDREN
....CROSSING

SLOW DEER
..CROSSING

SLOW SIGN PAINTER
......AT WORK

Joe Crumley
www.normansign.com (http://www.normansign.com)
www.jcrumley1@cox.net (http://www.jcrumley1@cox.net)

[tuck]

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f332/Superfan52/slow_signs.jpg

;)

[jerry_stanek]

Yes Joe that is what i meant
I always wonder about those signs that said slow men working
why not hire some fast men insead.

[dakers]

I hope this is useful:

Machine marks on larger routed out areas on hdu:

1. if i had a hdu sample with machine marks and the customer accepted it that way because it will be viewed from a distance and wanted to keep the price down i would just let it go out that way.

2. if they did not like the machine marks then the price goes up and i would have samples showing these methods:

A. sample of resin pour on the routed out areas. i think i would have to charge approx. $7.00 per sq ft or more depending on special color matching in the resin. I would only use the resin for smaller fills.
probably min charge woudl be $90.

B. sample with a two component high build auto enamel sprayed on to hide most or all the marks. this would probably be an extra $7.00 per sq ft with a min charge of about $150. and used for larger areas.

C. rout or sandblast a texture. We just bought the textures at http://www.imaginationcorporation.ca/textures.html
Have not figured a price to do them yet but would probably want a min charge of $100. would like to figure a sq ft price.

D. occasionally a plex or fiberglass inlay

Resin Pour.
the recommendations we get are to use an oil base enamel or a mineral powder like grout to color the resin. no more than about 15% paint by volume to keep the adhesive qualities high. we use one shot because of its high pigment content which means you use less paint to achieve a color. the epoxy resin can be poured and painted over top of with enamel when dry. the resin is not really suitable for uv exposure. when the paint or grout is mixed in the pigments give uv protection to the resin.
we understand that we could sprinkle things on top of the resin before it dries but have not done that yet. Maybe some of Joes Mica that he uses would be an interesting trial. I also have thought i needed to drill small holes at angles at the bottom of the fill on color core to help anchor it to the color core. have not tested that yet.
after studying the various epoxy resins we do not think they are all created equal. we pay about $100 for almost a gallon. if you google epoxy resin you can study it for hours. i forgot everything i learned already.

[joe]

I'm very comfortable of using epoxy as a finish coat however as Dick says there is a consideration. Which is UV. It's easy to get around with a UV clear.

But the way around an ugly background, aside from sanding, uuggh, is to add a texture or apply a thick color coat. Either way it's much faster than sanding and can add benefits.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e115/jcrumley1/Hemingways.jpg

This is epoxy with a flat UV for Hemmingways which ended up with 23K gold letters and border. The swirls were done by adding oneshot colors to epoxy. A person can get hooked by trying this technique. We have to play around a little. No extra charge!

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

[signtist]

OK Joe......one more time.....how do you flatten the finish of epoxy?
This always makes the gold look better!

[joe]

Greetings John,

I had plenty of tool marks left behind as I usually do. I had considered Smaltz or sand but it was summer and I was lazy, so it ended up epoxy.
We started pouring late one afternoon. After a night of drying I dusted it with my small blaster to get a tooth for the finish UV coat. I used PB resin and sprayed it with flat Centari. Since it was so dark and it would be facing south, I took every precaution.

For those unfamiliar with applying epoxy, here's a hint. I use a tray of ice cold water to cool down my mixed colors. In the summer you need all the time you can get on large pieces. I mixed four batches of epoxy. Each with a lighter or darker color. It doesn't take much One Shot but this panel used up about three quarts of epoxy. I keept these cool as I oscilate back and forth, pouring a little on here and there. Ron, my assistant is getting comfortable with unusual processes like this. He now know every job is different.

I was nervious. There was some serious time and money getting to this stage and I didn't want to blow it. The pour went well but it's dyanmic, flowing and moving around. It's a sloppy mess during the pour. You don't need anythign expensive. We used chopsticks, no good brushes, feathers and just about anything else within arms reach. We tilted it up and down and sideways. There were some thrilling images but they all flowed out, never to be seen again.

We delivered it a week later and the customer had a check waiting. No complaints. We stopped off at the Library Bar & Grill, for a few refreshments. A pint of Ale and good company makes love this business even more..

Wish we lived closer. I'd like to pick up on some of your excellent techniques. Chapman might come over and try to steal some of them though. Since Fred's Letterhead meet is no more, he might not come up this year. Those Texas boys are fickle that way.

Never mind the Skews. They dust right off.

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l181/joecrumley/IMG_1272.jpg

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

[dakers]

one option Joe talked about was using a hopper gun and acrylic aggregate. that would be a lower cost solution to a texture if the customer did not mind that look.


below is a link to a precision board product called pb hardcoat that can be textured.
http://www.precisionboard.com/textures_coatings.php

i would love to experiment with this stuff to see what textures you can get.

below is a link using crushed stone but i read where people are adding sand, walnut shells, etc to get a texture to epoxy resin

http://www.ehow.com/how_7375267_use-crushed-rock-filler-epoxy.html

i read to go matte on the resin use fine sandpaper, matte varnish, matte paint.

[joe]

Dick,

The PB Hardcoat comes as a milky liquid and a powder which looks for all the world like plaster. It's for sure hard and durable. Way too expensive for what you get. They also sell a texture coat which is liquid rubber and also PB crack filler. It's all pricey. Much like all their products.

I'm very fond of applied textures. There are so many to choose from. It's a smorgas board.

I'm glad John posted the question so others can give them a try.

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)