Wooden gear clocks

[waynesutter]

I have a late model PRT 96 and teach CNC at a local community college.

I am currently working on an all wood grandfather clock movement that can be cut on the shopbot. There is a team of three of us working on the project in our spare time. On Monday of next week we plan to cut the escape wheel which is the most tricky part of any clock. We are designing the clock to be a large full sized movement for a clock that will stand about 6 to 7 feet tall. we have the SBP files for most of the gears already done and should have the entire clock part files completed within the week. The only thing slowing us down is that we are making our own plywood to get the quality and void free materials we need.

I would be interested if anyone has everdone this before and how it turned out? Or if anyone knows where I can get superior quality absolutely void free 3/8 lumbercore plywood.

Since the new Mastercam post by Steve L. became available, I have been able to produce a file for cutting a complicated gear in about 15 minutes of drawing and tool pathing. I reviewed the information in the discussion forums and found nothing about anyone making clock parts or kits. If anyone has any experience in this area I would be appreciative and would be willing to share my efforts thus far. I believe this project has the potential to be a real money maker if done right. we are making the clock to be very well styled and highly intricatly cut but that is childs play for the shopbot!

[Wdyasq@yahoo.com]

Wayne,

Bill Young built some escapement movements on his SB sometime back.

On the plywood, if the high quailty French or Israeli made plywood for boats is not good enough and you MUST make your own, you might make it like I have. I have used two methods to "clamp" the wood while the glue cures:

Pressure Clamp - a structural base is made as well as a structural top. The material is laid up and the top is placed on. Chains(on this press) tied the top and bottom. A bladder made of fire-hose material that is between the top and a pressing plate is inflated to a desired pressure and the glue is allowed to cure.

Vacuum Clamp - the material is laid up on a flat sheet over a release agent(plastic sheet). This is then enclosed in an air-tight enclosure (bag or envelop) and a vacuum of ~20"Hg or so is applied. The glue is allowed to cure.

The vacuum method is cheap, fast and doesn't require any heavy structural pieces. 6 mil polyethelyne sheet will handle the requirements for the vacuum 'bag'. A waxed sheet of glass is usually flat enough to use as a base and the wax will not allow the glue to bond to the glass.

I have always used epoxy for making the small pieces of specialty ply I needed. However, I have had good luck using polyurethane glue when I vacuum laminated some 1/16 mahogany on sheet steel panels for a car.

Ron Brown

[bill.young]

Wayne,

Sounds's like a neat project. I've built a few geared mechanisms so far (they don't run long enough to call them clocks!), and they've gotten more attention than anything else I've done with my ShopBot. You can see some pictures of my newest version, the "time clock" at the ShopBot Training Center, at http://www.seasidesmallcraft.com/gizmo3.htm

As far as plywood is concerned, I've been using imported marine plywood but still have trouble with with wear and chipping in escapement gears and things that come to a sharp point. I've been experimenting with plastics, but also want to try rough-cutting the gear, soaking it in a thin resin or Crazy-glue to harden it, and then doing the finish cutting.

Harbor Sales in Sudlersville Md sells some fancy Birch plywood that you might be able to use. The thickest they have is 6mm (1/4"), but it's 12 ply! They have 1/8" 5 ply also, so you could glue up a panel that was 3/8" thick with 17 plys! Be warned that it's pretty pricey; my 3 year old catalog shows $99 for a 60" x 60" panel of the 1/4" and $54 for the 1/8". They also sell REALLY thin stuff; down to .04mm (1/64") thick 3 ply.

Keep us updated on your progress,

Bill

[bill.young]

Wayne,

Harbor also has Mahogany Aircraft-grade plywood, but it's REALLY pricey; 3/16" thick, 5 ply, $194 for a 4x8 sheet!

There's also a company on the West Coast named Aircraft Supply (I think) that sells Aircraft-grade ply and Sitka Spruce lumber to airplane builders. I don't know their phone number, but Harbor's is 800-345-1712

Bill

[rgengrave@aol.com]

I did a clock 2 years ago and used 7 ply Birch, here are some picture from my server.

http://66.68.112.6/samples/gears.htm

These gears are 8in Dia.

To stop the binding I sprayed Talcom Power on the dowls and this stoped it from binding for up to 6 months.

[bwclark@centurytel.net]

Ron,

Got any pictures of the whole clock?

Bruce Clark
bwclark@centurytel.net (mailto:bwclark@centurytel.net)

[shuttle]

Here's a good one...
http://members.home.net/woodenclock/

[rgengrave@aol.com]

Bruce I will have to take pictures when I go to my Grandparents house, I did not have a camera at the time I made it.

My grandfather had some prints of a all wooden clock he made with his scrollsaw and the time was off only 2 minutes a year, I made a clock from the plans and it worked fine.

I might put the complete plans and files on the server for download?

[shuttle]

Ron, please do!!!

[bwclark@centurytel.net]

Ron,

I second that one.

Gear cutting has always facinated me.

Bruce Clark
bwclark@centurytel.net (mailto:bwclark@centurytel.net)

[waynesutter]

Well today I cut the excapement gear and all went well (after one broken cutter and some fine tuning of the speeds and hold down). I used baltic birch just as a prototype. Based on something I read in "Fine Woodworking" I treated the surface with a coat of diluted shellac prior to cutting. This seemed to reinforce the fibers at the surface and resulted in a pretty good gear. The design we have evolved includes nylon bearing insert and a brass pin in the ends of the support shafts. The bearings do not show and greatly reduce friction and should allow the clock to run on a smaller weight and result in less wear.

I agree that we will probably have to make our own plywood. I plan to laminate some cocabola with an interior ply of maple for the gears. The color contrast should prove interesting and I believe the oil content of cocabolla should make the gear meshing work fine.

I have procurred a good piece of 3/4 mdf and we are laying out each part at a separate location. I used a 60 degree v bit and scribed a line every two inches both horizontally and vertically. We then plan to make each part a sub program that is called from a master part file list that contains the offset locations on the jig. My thought is that we could number the parts and use an input/call part file system to produce any desired part at the offset location corresponding to its part number. I can then just remove the large jig and reinstall it when I want to make another of the same clock, realign the board to the shopbot and cut parts!.

I have been a machinist and a clock collector/repair tech for many years. This project is really fun for me to work on. We should have the wood material epoxied and out of the vacuum press by Friday just in time to cut it out before the week end. When I have more parts produced or the clock works assembled, I will post some pictures for anyone who is interested.

[waynesutter]

I forgot to add that I will be happy to share the files with fellow shopbotters (with an understanding of limited production to one or two of the clocks, you never know I may want to go into business some day)

My partner has also been scanning gear drawings into autocad mechanical desktop and then using them as a background. By tracing one tooth and then issuing an "array" command he is able to draw a complete gear that is amazingly perfect in only a few minutes. If the drawing is not to exact size a simple rescaling fixes the problem. We then export a dxf file, open and convert with Mastercam and toolpath the file then post using the new mastercam post file. So far I have not had to make a single modification to the posted file for it to work perfect.

[drdouglashahn@hotmail.com]

Wayne,

Count me in , one clock is all I want for my shop.

Thanks for the effort perhaps I can reciprocate in the future. I thought if someone was interested perhaps we could have a page with plans that if you contribute one you can get one. Kind of on the honor system but with the understanding that they are for personal consumption only.

Douglas
drdouglashahn@hotmail.com (mailto:drdouglashahn@hotmail.com)

[rgengrave@aol.com]

After getting over 100 hits and many emails about the gears I did I thought I would let you try and cut 1.

http://66.68.112.6/samples/gears.htm

I picked the hardest gear to make but it was cut on my shopbot with an 1/16 and 1/8 straight bit, so you have a choise of what bit you want to try.

The key to making wooden clocks is the gears, they need to fit perfect, a little sanding will fix any problem on them but this gear need to be perfect that is why I posted it for cutting.

Baltic Birch worked on the clock I did 2 years ago, you can make it out of 1/8 - 1/4 or 1/2, it will all work the same

Ron V

[srwtlc]

Wayne,

I, too, would be very interested if you decide to make your plans available. I've always been interested in making a wooden gear clock ever since I saw one that took up most of one wall at an outfitter in the Minnesota boundary waters canoe area years ago. I was just thinking the other day I should check out on the net to see if I could find any info(since I know next to nothing about clockmaking) and then I saw your first posting. Keep us updated and have fun!

[rgengrave@aol.com]

42 shopbotters cut the escape gear so far and a few said they could not do an offset or was unable to edit the file for some reason.

I did the offest in Turbocad with no problems but everyone might not have Turbocad, you might be able to do it in Vector? so what I did is post the bmp of the escape gear.

1 shopbotter said it cut perfect but he cheated and used a laser.

Ron

[waynesutter]

In the last few days the response to this project has been overwhelming. I have had many people e-mail me and express an interest in the project. We have decided to go the extra mile and document the process wery well and make the documentation available to fellow shopboters as soon as the posting is complete. Complete programming and perfecting of the code and documentation is expected to take about three weeks which will be about the same time our prototype is expected to be complete.

We will have pictures, parts lists, material requirements, assembly notes and the shopbot code for every gear and applicable part, complete with router start and stop codes. I do not have a web site for download but I will offer it to Shopbot for posting on the server. We also plan to include a drill and jig creation file to make the basic jig for the clock production.

As of this point we have cut three gears and a few misc parts and they are nearly perfect with very little sanding required. This is mainly because we included a final facing finishing cut that removes only .020 from the face of each surface on the final pass. We are making new gear blanks for the remaining parts and are finalizing the design details which were more complicated than I first imagined. We have also created a jig that will make the required dowels on a table saw in about 15 seconds each. I plan to try and adapt the dowel jig to the shopbot to see if it can produce virtualy all of the parts. So far I have found that if you use a cutting speed of 15 IPM and a depth of about 1/8" for delicate gears, you have very few issues. This may seem slow but the chipout at the edge of the teeth increases as a function of speed.

My partner came up with an interesting hold down plan for the clock gears. With the gear blank screwed at the corners, you drill a 3/16 hole in the center of each spoke area and put in a screw to hold the spoke waste. You then cut the spokes and stop. You then remove the spoke screws and using the waste you rotate each waste piece a few degrees and retighten the screw such that the spoke waste becomes a hold down clamp. You then proceed to cut the remaining portion of the gear.
So far the method has produced better results than any other I have tried. Any other ideas or reflections from more experienced people would be appreciated.

Our learning curve is straight up but we are getting pretty good at drawing and cutting gears. We plan to make a presentation of the first clock to the President of Mt San Jacinto Community College. Since we have a deadline for the presentation we will probably be very dilligent to get this done on time.

So far I estimate the cost of the clock will be near $300 for materials. A second or third would be less since we have to purchase materials in excess of the requirements for one clock.

We are using cocabola, Congo alves. jetoba, Bubinga, ebony and shetoba (I had never heard of Shetoba until this week but it looks great!)

[rgengrave@aol.com]

Wayne try Baltic Birch, a clock would only cost under $5 to make and can be stained to match any wood.

Ron V

[waynesutter]

Ron,

I cut some prototype gears out of baltic birch, they cut fine but when I tried to stain them to look like dark cherry, it did not have that really classy look I am trying for. I would be interested in hearing any tricks you might have for getting a consistent and grained surface on the birch. Today I laminated bubinga for the escape and birdseye maple for the pinions. The spoke holding method mentioned above worked very well however this was an exasperating day because my holding method for the pinions did not do the job and I lost three pinion gears due to slippage and spoiled cutting. Since they have relatively little surface area and not much room for clamping I plan to try using hide glue to glue them to a sacrificial board, cut them and then use heat to release them. I hope this method works because some of the wood I am using is very expensive and the time required to laminate the board is also a factor.

[rgengrave@aol.com]

Wayne my grandfather is a master woodworker, he showed me the difference between wood and what it will hold up to, I learn something everyday and I share it with shopbotters.

So far I have cut the parts for 13 different wood clocks for my grandfather at a rate of 23 clocks a day "ONLY 10 GEARS PER CLOCK " the smaller 2 gears are done by scrollsaw.

We cut the parts in Baltic Birch and assemble it to make sure the everything moves smoothly, then we take it apart and and use a sanding sealant to close any grain then we can apply any stain we want, then we spray Grafite on the ends, we then lay it on a table and rotate the gears for even ware.

If there is a bind in any tooth? a simple hand sand will fix it, then spray it with a polyurethane but not the ends.

No wooden clock will run for more then 80hrs as we found out from 20 years experience, here is how we ad our weights

16hrs, 5lb weight, 6ft fishing line, no pulley.
32hrs, 10lb weight, 12ft line, 1 pulley.
48hr, 15lb weight, 18ft line, 2 pulleys.
64hrs, 20lb weight, 24ft line, 3 pulleys.
80hrs, 25lb weight, 30ft line, 4 pulleys.

We gave up after 25lb because we are felt this is just to much weight to run a clock.

The time was off 7 seconds a month, so that is about 2 minutes a year which is not bad for a years time.

No shopbotter will be able to get the same cut from dxf files, I have found this out from the 87 shopbotters on the server that cut the gear I posted and the 44 not on the server, a little sanding on the tips were needed.

I would post the dxf files to make the clock that I have did in the past but there is copyrights to the plans we do and I am working with a company to release them to shopbotters for download.

First a shopbotter would need to buy the plans $18, then he or she would be able to make a clock from the dxf files, then if he or she sold a clock? he or she would have to add a set of plans to the cost of sale, this saves you from the copyright law.

The total cost to build a wood clock is $5 as of right now, Texas price...lol.

I have sold over 85 clocks in the last 2 years at a cost of $275.00, not bad for a $5 investment and 1 hour for a shopbot time to cut.

I wish I had a camera at the time I made them but thanks to a shopbotter on the server he sent me some pictures of a clock he did in Baltic Birch from plans he bought.

http://66.68.112.6/samples/gears.htm

Most clock builder now of days use Baltic Birch because it will not warp, and they use a laser to cut out the parts, we use a drill press to do the centers for the dowels.

I have a masters is drafting and a BA in programing in Pascal and C++ and my brother is a master Tool and Dye maker for the government and my grandfather is retired from Ford Motors he did all there CNC work and programing,and my sister is a professor at MIT, now you see why I bought a shopbot.... easy money to make? and here I wasted 20 years working for the government, sure wish Ted made the shopbot back then...lol

Ron V

[bill.young]

Wayne,

Pinion gears are definately a pain to hold; I've torn up more than a few.

The method that's worked best for me has been to drill a hole on my building jig at the center of the pinion gear's dowel hole and screw a threaded insert into it. Pick an insert so that the bolt that threads into it is the same size as your axle dowel; I use 3/8". Also make sure that the top of the insert is a little bit below the surface of your jig.

Next temporarily mount your pinion blank on the jig and drill it's center hole with your ShopBot. Put a bolt and washer into the hole you just made in the pinion blank, thread it into the insert, and tighten it enough to keep the pinion from moving. It relies on friction to hold the part so cut the gear in small passes, but it holds amazingly well. I use a piece of scrap 1/4" plywood for a washer so that I don't have to worry about hitting it with the bit, and also to keep the bolt head from making a mark in the gear.

This method only works well if you keep the hole in the pinion lined up with the insert. If you use your ShopBot to cut the hole for the insert and have a good zeroing setup, though, you can always come back to the same place. If you don't have proximity switches or something like that, or wanted to move the jig to a different part of the table, you could cut the head off of a bolt, thread it into the insert, and use a variation of the z-zero routine to find all 4 sides of the bolt and calculate the center.

Hope this wasn't too confusing,

Bill

[Wdyasq@yahoo.com]

Bill,

An excellent point on the bolt hold-downs. Before the gear-drive came out and the ShopBot was a cable drive unit, I held many parts with blind nuts from the bottom and holes located from the top. I would locate the hole and have the blind nut mounted on a piece of ply I would then glue to the bottom of the table. After the glue set, I would use NYLON bolts. Then when the machine got out of wack, it would not destroy the bits. At the time I had a good stock of 1/4-20 Nylon bolts.

Once I got away from cable drive, changed out the old door rollers for real bearings and changed the Z-drive to ball-screw, the machine got a lot more dependable. I am fairly sure now when I locate a holding screw it will NOT get hit by the errant router.

Ron Brown - wdyasq@yahoo.com (mailto:wdyasq@yahoo.com)

If Stupidity got us into this mess,
then why can't it get us out? - Will Rogers

[hammerhead]

just something i noticed on the early posts on this topic, baltic birch warps! all woods warp. i use baltic wood all day long. trust me it warps! its wood!! hope this helps your project guys.

[rgengrave@aol.com]

Dan your right all wood will warp, Baltic Birch just holds better them most other types I have used in the past,but for wood clocks its the best for the cost because most clock builders use it.

Here you can read about the wood they use

http://www.clockplans.com/page4.html

And here you can order plans for $18

http://www.scrollsaws.com/

If your math is good and know how to draw gears you can make them quick and cut them in Baltic Birck and then just edit the file to get the cut you need.

Or just scan them and trace the file, this is a little on the hard side because if you are off 1/16 in the pitch or angle the clock will not work right

Ron V

[waynesutter]

Ron, the thing I like about this forum is tha ability to talk to people that have depth of experience like yours. You have cut a lot of clocks and I apprecate your input.


You are right about gear drawing being tricky if you try to scan and draw. we have developed a method of drawing a single tooth and then using autocad's array command to draw a perfect gear.

I have been thinking all day about the wood we are using. I will definately cut a clock in baltic birch but the first one is for a very special project and I want to make it extra special, the cost is not an issue for this first one, it will be an issue in the future.

I ordered the Thomas clock plan several years ago and have studied it extensively but never built it. I would like to know how well it works.I also have a copy of "Rick's wagon wheel clock" which is a very strange design.

[hammerhead]

maple plywood is a much harder wood if you still want to try making these. it is a much nicer wood that the baltic birch, you wont find much nicer than the maple, it will cost you though! finland birch would be the next stage up from baltic before maple.

[rgengrave@aol.com]

Wayne the Thomas clock is the first 1 my grandfather built with a scrollsaw and it works fine but would not be my choice for making my own wood clock.

When I made the same Thomas clock on a shopbot it was very difficult to get the gears to cut right, so after many trial and errors we got it do pretty good, we just ended up using Baltic Birch to make the clock and if everything came out right we would use other types of wood to make the final clock.

I guess I should have said we use Baltic Birch to make our molds then choose any type of wood you wanted too.

Dan knows his wood because he use more types then we use around here.

I just use Baltic Birch because of the price, I get 1/2 inch for $10.50 a sheet and I hear it is $25.00 in other states.

As to what is the best clock to make? this is hard to answer, the method is all the same in any clock, the tooth and diameter is the most important thing to keep in mind, the shape of the gear does not matter, the center hole needs to have no play when the dowel is inserted, if there is play then it will bind on you.

If a shopbotter wanted to make a wood clock? make a gear board first, I would draw the diameter on the wood and drill a 3/8 hole and put in a 2 inch dowel, then when I cut the gear I place it on the board and use another gear that I know is perfect and rotate it around it to see if there is any binding, if there is I node edit the dxf file and cut another gear and test that, once I get the dxf file to cut a perfect gear I use it as a master file.

I would say if a shopbotter never made a wood clock before they are looking at around 75hrs to build 1.

Since over 100 people downloaded the gear I posted it is safe to say not every shopbot is going to cut it the same, this is because there machine might not be square and for other reasons, but most say if cut perfect.

Now if all the gears are made in dxf format for download? they might be looking at 8hrs to build 1, then after they get it down, 1 hr to make one.

Anyway good luck to any shopbotter making a clock, if you learn to draw and make a working gear? there is nothing you will not be able to do as to moving parts,me and my brother just finished some plans on a all wood pedal go-cart, if all goes right? top speed will be 18 mph?.

Ron V

[bill.young]

Wayne,

You may have seen these already, but Fine Woodworking magazine did a couple of articles on clock making and design in the 70's and 80's. The first one, issue #10 from Spring of 1978, is more theoretical and has a good section on laying out and drawing a simple escapement. I used it as a CAD lesson at one of the early Camp; it might make a good class project.

They also had a 2-part article in early 1986 in issues #56 and #57. These articles are more practicle than the first on, talking about machining techniques and giving exploded drawings for construction details. Issue 57 shows you how to draw an escapement similar to the one Ron posted the scan of.

One thing I wish I had found when I made my first gears was a tutorial on drawing gears in TurboCAD that Craig Davis posted on the TurboCAD forum a couple of years ago. In my first gear attempt (a big set of spirograph gears) I just drew something that looked "toothy" and figured it would work OK. They worked, but they would bind if the depth wasn't just right and it was hard to get the big gears to mesh right with small gears.

Craig's tutorial gives you samples of tooth shapes for different diameter gears and shows you how to layout gears by radial-copying the teeth. You should be able to find it by searching the TurboCAD forum for "gears" or "gear symbols"; if you can't, let me know and I'll see if I can dig it up.

Last, there's some great information on drawing escapements of all kinds at http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hall/3934/introduction.html with animations showing how the different types work.

Good luck with your clock, and keep us posted

Bill

p.s. Craig's tutorial also shows you how to layout rack for rack-and-pinion; you could make a wooden ShopBot if you could figure out how to make wooden stepper motors!

[rgengrave@aol.com]

Here is a site that this guy make the gears in Turbocad.

http://wooden-clockworks.com/

Ron V

[rgengrave@aol.com]

After getting 14 calls on a Sunday my day of rest about how to make gears with Turbocad I thought I would make a movie on how to do it, Gears are so simple to make that I did not take the time to think some shopbotters might not have a clue on all the technical mumbo jumbo on how to make them.

This movies is for Turbocad users, but the same principle will work with other cad programs.

I hope this movie will help clear how to make gears, the movie I made is the escape gear I posted with pictures.

The only thing the movie does not show is how the tips were made, so here is how you get the tips made.

Scan them and trace them by hand, copy the tip and the rest is all paste.

After you line it up Hold the Shift Key down and select the Circle and then Group it, then enter 12 in the rotate box and hit the Enter Key then click on the screen and hit Paste and start all over till you entered all the tips.
You should have a perfect gear at that point, now just lay out any pattern you want for the inside, this does not matter if it is even or not.

Fot the Center hole use a drill press.

The movie is 1.45mb

http://66.68.112.6/samples/gears.htm

Ron V

[waynesutter]

Ron

You really know how to make a guy humble. Your clock pictures are great! I hope mine comes out anywhere near as good.

Wayne

[bill.young]

Ron,

I'll second that; your clocks are beautiful!

Bill

[alan]

Ron V
I am finding this discussion fascinating, and I think it is neat of you to offer the information that you have worked so hard to acquire, with that said Ihave a few.
First, you had previously righten that no shopbotter will be able to get the same cut from a DXF file, what did you mean? Secound, do you use a laser on your shopbot? Finally would a regular off the shelf shopbot be accurate and stable enough to cut gears for a wooden clock, considering the design was right and the machine was setup right.
thanks alan

[rgengrave@aol.com]

Well Allen it is really not hard work if you know what you are doing, I try and take what others think is hard and explain it as simple as I can.

I spent about 3 hours on the phone with a shopbotter and showed him what a $30 program can do compared to what he is trying to learn on now, he learned more in 30 minutes then he did since he bought his machine in December.

What I do is Call a shopbotter and walk him through the program and show him or her how it is done, after 10 minutes all the things they ever wanted to do is now clear and simple to do, No Books, No Movies, just draw and cut.

As for not having another machine cut it the same?
When I cut a file I made on my machine it works fine, but if I sent it to 10 shopbotters to cut 1 might say it did not cut right because his or her machine might be off or out of square.

I bought 2 100watt lasers from a company going out of business last year and never set them up, I gave them to my brother for his metal shop so I never used a laser but I might try it?.

Off the shelf Shopbot...Hummmmm... never heard that 1 before but if you bought a new or used shopbot and had it square and setup right? you will be able to just about do anything within reason.

I have had a shopbot for about 4 - 5 years? and have done just about everything, mine was the cable drive and is now a R/P upgrade.

Now to do clocks on a shopbot? yes you can, I made 10 or so in the last 2 years and they worked fine, I use both a 1/6 and 1/8 bit to cut them, and on 1 or 2 parts I use a scrollsaw for the 1 1/2 inch gears.

For any shopbotter to make a clock would be simple but? some shopbotters might have to edit the dxf file or files to cut it right on there machine? or it will cut right the first time.

Last week a shopbtter sent me some plans on a clock for me to draw up, I had to tell him it will not work on 3 gears because the pitch will not work on the machine because he would need a 1/32 router bit to cut it, so he will need to cut 3 gears with a scrollsaw.

The wood clocks that you see today are done by laser cuts, but as you can see from my pictures and Bill Youngs clock it can be done on a shopbot.

So how would a shopbotter build a clock on a shopbot and be able to use an 1/8 bit? you scale the parts to make it work.

If the plans say the clock will be 17 inches tall and 9 inches wide? you will make it 19 inches tall and 11 inches wide.

The only gear you will have a problem with is the escapement gear, but this is now easy if you have a grandfather like me that knows all about it.

I did not take any pictures of the clocks I made because I did not have a camera and at that time did not see the need too, I assumed...lol that everyone knew about wooden clocks 3 years ago.

The Thomas wooden clock have been around for 40 years or so and I have seen adds for the plans in many books and mags.

I hope this explained your questions? if not feel free to post more or send me an email.

Ron

[waynesutter]

I would like to second Ron's comments. The shopbot is easily accurate enough to produce a wooden clock. It is essential that the system be aligned properly and that is not difficult. I have moved my shopbot twice and aligned it three times since new. Each time it get easier. I wrote a simple program to draw a large rectangle and scribed the table with a light v bit set to make a simple line. When measuring the corner to corner they should be the same and if not it is a simple matter to square the y axis to the x. I then put the largest surfacing bit I have (1 1/2) and surface a board with movement in the full x and y axis. If the Z is misaligned you will get a ridge on one side of the cut. This tells you which way to tilt the z axis to fix the problem. Once aligned I cut a square of known size and measure it with a caliper to the nearest thousandth. Assuming all is well I then surface the table (make very sure your base board is secured firmly) I have now cut the escape gear three times and each time it is cut perfectly. I use a carbide 1/8 up spiral and use a feed rate of 15 IPM which is a little slow but speed is not an issue for me. The gears that are small can be a problem for a 1/8 bit but I have redesigned the gear to allow for this and have had no problems.

Ron's earlier conversations gave me an idea and I have begun to sand the gears by meshing them with other gears and spinning them with abrasive between them. I have used a fine blasting sand and spun the gears for about two minutes while increasing the mesh and using moderate pressure. The result has been a gear that is impressive and using an optical comparitor the resulting gear has been measured and is within .004 of the original design specification. Frankly I have trouble producing gears that are much better than this on my $75,000 Fadal vertical machining center. Pretty good for a tool that costs so little.

I will have my clock finished in about three weeks and will post the entire code files for all the cut parts along with drawings and notes for other parts and assembly. If anyone wants it before it is totaly finished I will send the working files as they are created. Just e-mail me at sutter@iinet.com (mailto:sutter@iinet.com) and request the files.

[bill.young]

Ron,

Does the person that made the clocks on your web site have their own site? I'd like to see some more of their work.

Bill

[rgengrave@aol.com]

Bill This would be Rich Hutchson, he does scrollwork and sells plans, I have spoke with him a few times to see if any of his plans can be cut on a cnc machine? the files can be made in a cad program and an offset made for them to cut.

The pictures of the clock on my server is from plans I bought a few years back and resized the gears to be able to cut it,I did not take any pictures so I asked a few shopbotter on the server if they had any pictures of the clock made from the plans and the pictures posted are what was sent to me.

This is where I bought the plans, looks like he made a few more clocks I might want to try and cut?

http://www.scrollsaws.com/PatternIndex.htm

Ron V

[fuzzygrub@sinclair.net]

I know this isn't the proper string to ask my question, but , If I were to make sign, I mean clock, that was to withstand the environmental damage that occurs to outside wooden clocks in the state of TEXAS, what would the best type of wood to use, besides the various plys? thanx ko

[rgengrave@aol.com]

Wooden clocks outside that work? no such thing, if you are taking about what wood can be used to make a working clock? any soild wood, there are just to many to list here.

Cedar wood be the best but it is too soft

Ron V

[waynesutter]

Just an update.

The project is going well. I have several of the gears cut and many others ready to go including the front and back plates. If anyone wants a preleminary distribution of the files so they can get started, I will send files I have tested and are OK. These are SBP files I am still working on the drawings and details which will be available soon. If you want the files e-mail sutter@iinet.com (mailto:sutter@iinet.com)

[rgengrave@aol.com]

The pictures of the gears on the server were made by me, the pictures of the clock were made by a shopbotter I thought as I posted above.

Mickey Hudspeth made the clock using diffrent types of wood, you can view his works here and I made corrections on the server as well.

http://www.clockplans.com/page8.html

[Wdyasq@yahoo.com]

Woods for clocks and TEXAS.

Keith,

One of the most stable woods available is Mesquite. If you can get a piece of quarter sawn large enough, it would probably be one of the best native woods. For bearings, you could use the 'soapbush', a relative of the Lignum Vitae. Other viable Texas woods would be persimmon, osage orange, los ebanos and dogwood.

Junipers, misnomered as "cedars", would be a wood too soft for any working part. If one went to tropical woods, granadillo, sapadillo, black poison wood or many of the 'rosewoods' would be a good bet.

Depending on where you are in Texas a working wooden clock kept outside might work if you could protect it from rain and direct sunlight. If it were given the WEST System epoxy treatment it might even stand bad weather.

Ron

[gwb]

More woods for Texas clocks.

Teak, Cypress and Jarrah wood would work quite well also. All 3 are harwoods are used in boat building (exterior decking and planking)also used in fine finish work including furniture & carvings. The Teak and Cypress are easy obtainable where the Jarrah is tough to find, but I feel all 3 would work well for exterior gears.

[waynelocke]

RitecoSupply (713-896-6200) in Houston, TX sells hoop pine plywood from Australia. This plywood comes in 1/16" to, I think, 1" thicknesses in both interior and exterior grade. I use the 1/16" ply for curved laminated panels and it is very good and of as good or better quality than baltic birch. It has the same construction as baltic birch, i.e. all of the plys are the same thickness and the same specie.

[waynesutter]

A project development. Today I completed the cutting of all but the last gear(I have to make another piece of plywood) and am beginning to assemble. I have sent out a starter set of files to everyone that e-mailed me and some have cut them with great success.

Today we had some more fun. I mounted a Jet mini lathe turned on its side to the left end of the Shopbot and it now serves as an excellent CNC lathe. We were able to align it using a dial indicator off the traveling carriage to within .002 in 14" The purpose was to turn the arbors for te clock under control of the shopbot. It worked better that I ever imagined. We can easily reproduce spindle shapes within .002 . I cut 8 spindles and the vaximum variation was .004 between them all. I was also able to specify a radius in using the y axis referenced to center zero on the lathe and it will make the arbors for the clock in meer seconds even with stepped diameters. I love this shopbot!

[sutter@iinet.com]

Latest Project Update. The cutting files are fairly complete for the entire clock. I have sent them to three of four people that are beta testing them and giving me feedback. We should be ready for mass distribution soon. In the meantime if anyone wants the beta files just let me know and they are yours for the asking including part files, a detailed parts listing and some PDF files as well. the "final" package I plan to make available to shopbot for their website. Should make an interesting demo and help sell more machines.

My e-mail is sutter@iinet.com (mailto:sutter@iinet.com)

If anyone decides to undertake the clock I will be happy to provide correspondence assistance and discussion via e-mail.


I will be off line from September 8th until the 15th due to moving my house and e-mail computer. Get your requests in early and I will send them out before I shut down to move.

[jerry]

I just finished writting a Corel Script that can be used to create very accurate and quick gears within Corel Draw 10. If may work with lower version but I do not have any lower version to test it with. I added a gear option to the Object Creator script from Oberon. With this modification all that is needed to create a gear is to have a tooth object selected and a couple of inputs filled in on a dialog box. The inputs are # of teeth, size of the base of the gear(total gear size minus the size of the teeth and the size of the shaft). Then all you do is hit "Create" and in a few seconds a gear is born. It takes about 30 seconds to create a 60 tooth 6 inch gear on a 1.1 gig machine. I have created gears from 0.5 inches all the far up to 25 inches. If larger gears are needed there are some offset within the script that need to be adjusted. These offset are needed because Corel Draw is very poor about keeping an object from drifting when it is rotated. If any body would like this program just e-mail me and I will send it to you. If there is enough request I will ftp it to the download area. I was able to create all the gears for the thomas clock in a very short time.

My e-mail is balloon@primenet.com (mailto:balloon@primenet.com)

[rgengrave@aol.com]

Jerry were you able to make the escape gear? this is the 1 that needs to be right on the money for it to work right.

Ron

[jerry]

Yes Ron,

If the tooth object that is going to be used to make the gear is right then the gear will be correct. All the script does is take the tooth object and places it on the edge of a circle all the way around automatically.

Jerry

[danhamm@abccom.bc.ca]

There is a gear making video on my website,
for corel 7 and 8 at http:www.burningimpressions.ca/videoclips

[rgengrave@aol.com]

Dan you must like that video maker?...lol

Ron V

[danhamm@abccom.bc.ca]

Yes' thanks for putting me onto it Ron.
if you have any more neet one's let me know..

[jrabeneck]

I dabbled in gear cutting a year or so ago. I was experimenting with a 1/8" rotozip carbide bit. It was the only thing I could find at the local hardware stores that would cut all the way through 1/2" plywood. Yhe only 1/8" router bits I could find were capable of only a 3/8"cutting depth. The rotozip bits worked OK, but they were easy to break. Do any of you guys who have successfully cut gears have a reccomendation for a router bit and a source?
Jim

[alan]

Wayne
Just wondering how the clock turned out?
do you have or can you post some pictures?
does it keep time?
looking forwared to your update

[waynesutter]

Well everybody I have been absent from this thread that I started for over a month now. After moving I suffered computer failure and am just now getting everything back in order. I hate to move!

The clock project has progressed to the point where I am expecting to have it completed including case this weekend. the movement is complete and looks great! I wish to extend my thanks to everyone for their comments and helpful suggestions. I have sent the files to several of you and I hope they serve you well.

I also plan to cut a complete set of parts this weekend to test the files for final distribution and tweaking. I learned a few things during the making of this clock and will incorporate them into the final version which will probably be available to everyone after this week end. If you have ever sent me a request for the files I still have your address and will resend the final versions with all instructions, pictures and notes. If you wish to be added to my list of contacts for files please drop me an e-mail at sutter@iinet.com (mailto:sutter@iinet.com)

I also plan to give the final version to Ted at Shopbot to use as they see fit. Have fun!

[waynesutter]

For anyone interested, I will have the completed clock at the Longbeach CA wood show on the weekend of the 26,27 & 28 of October. It will be in the Rockler/Shopbot booth and I will be there with it most of the time. Should be lots of fun. we may even make a clock at the show.

[sutter@iinet.com]

Well everybody the project is finally complete. the clock works fine and looks great!

I have the files available for any shopbot owner that asks for them. There is no charge for the files but I do ask that no commercial production be undertaken.

I have sent the files to everyone that I am aware asked for them. If you desire the package but have yet to receive it please e-mail me at sutter@iinet.com (mailto:sutter@iinet.com) and request the file package. the package includes all required cut files and an extensive instruction set. I also include lathe files for those that have mounted a lathe to their shopbot.

For anyone desiring a CD of the clock files which includes all notes and extensive pictures to aid construction, my 15 year old daughter has assembled my files into a CD and offers it for $35 to earn her some Christmas money. We also supply the small parts such as bearings and brass pins, o-rings and such with the CD. For anyone desiring the turned arbors we also offer the turning service. A set of arbors is $20 without the CD purchase and $10 if you buy the CD.

Anyone who knows how much work it is to assemble these types of projects will understand I am not trying to make money on this venture. I am just trying to teach my daughter a work ethic and responsibility. I make the parts out of any wood you request witin reason.

Have fun withe the clock project. I plan to start another clock design project to build a mantle clock completely of wood. I would like to hear from anyone with design ideas or input for the project. I will aso offer it to the public when complete.

[rockytops]

Hi there. Can anybody tell me if Wayne Sutter still has files available for the clock he put together in 2001. We would really like to give it a go, have tried out a couple and seem to have problems.
It sounds like just what we're looking for!

[tlempicke]

The address I have for him is

Sutter@iinet.com (mailto:Sutter@iinet.com)

I bought one of his discs back in 2001 when he finished the project. It is quite complete and cuts a very nice gear.

Unfortunately I did not ever get the clock finished, although I still have plans to do that.

Here is an interesting place to look for plywood

http://www.boulterplywood.com/

[rockytops]

Thanks Tom, well I did send him an email to that address. Just thought it might have changed as I haven't heard back from him. Thanks also for the plywood link, great help. I'll just wait and see if he gets back to me in time.