custom built wooden screen door

[myxpykalix]

I have an apt. where the aluminum door is just **** so i wanted to put a nice wooden screen door in its place. The problem i have is that it is not the standard size so i can't go get one and cut it down (i've looked and measured) so i need to make a new one.

What i want to know is if anyone has done this and whether you have used a different type of joint i can make on the bot rather then the conventional rail and stile to hold the parts together? What wood did you use?

What did you do for the screens? Any tips drawings, advice, ect would be appreciated.

[bleeth]

You are in deep doo doo Jack. A plant I ran in the Northwest built screen doors for a living. We shipped all over the US and they were featured on This Old House. To do it right they are more complicated then they appear. Even the correct hardware (Bommer hinges) and Brick mold frame are layed out for a "standard" stile and rail. 1 1/8" thick. We used a floating tennon and this is not pravtical (although doable) on a SB. You could use Partworks Dog bones, shiplaps, or puzzle joints on a SB pretty easy.
There is another Botter who does screen doors out of plywood with 3-d reliefs of wildlife scenes in the center and the "white space" being the screen area. You can do a simple version of that by digging into the Vector Art files and stretching/cutting/pasting elements from there.
If you are not set up to do a proper screen dado to stretch the screen you can always staple it instead and put your screen trim molding over that.
Think about your design for a while and come back with how you want it to look and we can help you from there.

[myxpykalix]

Dave, don't take this the wrong way but....I want to KISS.....(no not that!)

K.eep I.t S.imple S.tupid.....

I just want 4 sides and a center stile (or is it a rail) where i can just staple the screen material in and hide it with some trim. Nothing fancy.

Think of the old screen doors you grew up with, something like that. I don't need to carve anything or make it fancy.

[Brady Watson]

Staple the screen to the center stile & perimeter & cover/trim out with 1/8" thick lattice. Done.

-B

[gc3]

I would do a floating tenon joint. You probally have enough z clearance to do the stile mortice and with your indexer bay maybe the rail mortice. Make the tenon with traditional tools.

On wooden screen doors that we make we use an aluminum screen frame with spring loaded pins to fix it in place. Easy to remove screen for cleaning or repair.

[myxpykalix]

Brady, you make it sound so easy...:)

Gene i think i might make it with floating tenon, glue, and pocket screws. If that doesn't hold it then i'll have to think of something else.:D

[Greencarvings]

Here is a special joint just for that problem.

[myxpykalix]

Patrick that looks great but let me ask a dumb question...how do i toolpath this?

Do i pocket out out 1,3,5,7 on one board and pocket out 2,4,6,8 on the other along with a half lap? You use the outside square as your "reference"?

What is the use of the circle in #4?

[zeykr]

Patrick,
Can we see a crv file for that joint? Would like to see how you setup the tool paths.

[Greencarvings]

Mill off 1/4 of the surface

The large square mills the first 1/4 off the board. That square and the two, five, eight, and eleven o'clock form the middle of the board. The ones at one, four, seven and ten o'clock are the deepest (at 3/4ths the board thickness). That leaves the last 25% of the board thickness uncut.


The circle is an artifact when I exported it.

Use the square to size the board you are cutting.

[bleeth]

Sorry Jack: I didn't realize my reply didn't include the easy ways to do it clearly enough:
Easiest Stile and rail on a bot is with a shiplap joint.
Easiest way to cut a screen door with no joinery is out of plywood.
Floating tennon does not need additional screws, just good glue and clamps.
True wood screen door hardware calls for 1 1/8" thick stiles and rails but you can always use any butt hinges, a pull, and a spring.

Patricks joint is pretty cool since it gives more glue surface and if cut right will help self square the door.

Biggest problem with home built screen door is stiles and rails warping with weather changes. When you are done make sure you seal it on all sides (including the bottom and top)

[myxpykalix]

Dave! I hope you didn't read it as my description of K.I.S.S. meaning anything about you or your description...:eek:

I have gone back and forth about this stupid door because you are right regarding warping, ect but i just can't justify the cost of a custom size aluminum or plastic door.

I am aware of the "wicking" effect of the exposed endgrain on wood and appreciate you reminding me so i'll keep that in mind when its time to cover it.

Let me ask for some clarification (see, its not you its me:rolleyes:)...

Easiest Stile and rail on a bot is with a shiplap joint.

Are you talking about a "half lap joint or the one that looks like 2 fingers where you slip one finger inbetween the two?

Easiest way to cut a screen door with no joinery is out of plywood.

Do you mean just take a 4x8 sheet of plywood and cut out the openings for the screens, ect?

That seems like such a simple idea I don't know why any of us other geniuses ever thought of that:rolleyes: (not being sarcastic...ok a little..lol)
but that is an excellent idea. I think that would eliminate failure at joints, ect.
Has anyone ever done this? What grade of plywood would be best?
Most screen doors are 1 1/8th thick would you suggest I add anything to get to that thickness?
Anything i should do for the exposed edges?
Any tips on how to keep it from twisting.....maybe some type of flat metal crossbrace?
Thanks dave, i was half ready to scrap the idea, you got me thinking that this is doable again:)

[bleeth]

Are you talking about a "half lap joint or the one that looks like 2 fingers where you slip one finger inbetween the two? Shiplap = half lap

Easiest way to cut a screen door with no joinery is out of plywood.

Do you mean just take a 4x8 sheet of plywood and cut out the openings for the screens, ect? Yes

That seems like such a simple idea I don't know why any of us other geniuses ever thought of that:rolleyes: (not being sarcastic...ok a little..lol)
but that is an excellent idea. I think that would eliminate failure at joints, ect.
Has anyone ever done this? YesWhat grade of plywood would be best? You should use a good grade exterior plywood-that means marine grade. Bad news is I think it's running around 60-80 bucks a sheet. It ain't cdx!!
Most screen doors are 1 1/8th thick would you suggest I add anything to get to that thickness?That thickness is due to the standard specs of the better quality screen door locking latch sets an hinges. I wouldn't bother taking 3/4 marine ply and laminating more to it just to gain that thickness when you can use butt hinges, a pull, a spring or light closer, and an eye hook as a latch. If I really wanted to do one the traditional right way then I wouldn't do a plywoood door. The question is are you trying to do a door that works for you or recreate an heirloom style.
Anything i should do for the exposed edges? Seal them
Any tips on how to keep it from twisting.....maybe some type of flat metal crossbrace? Make sure you start with flat material that is acclimated to your climate and seal it everywhere. Forget the brace.
Thanks dave, i was half ready to scrap the idea, you got me thinking that this is doable again:) No prob.

For ideas you can go to my old company still in biz and look over the designs. www.greatnwdoors.com (http://www.greatnwdoors.com) Their screen doors are the best (but not cheap)

[myxpykalix]

Dave you gave me some good ideas, I went to the site and got some good design ideas.

you can use butt hinges, a pull, a spring or light closer, and an eye hook as a latch....

The question is are you trying to do a door that works for you or recreate an heirloom style.

I think i want to go somewhere between heirloom and hillbilly.....:D

[michael_schwartz]

As long as your rails and stiles are not too wide causing wood moment to overpower the strength of the glue a simple plain old half lap joint should be very strong. I would not exceed 4.5" in width for this reason.

A half lap joint would also far exceed the strength of a stub tenon, or dowels...

This joint doesn't get as much credit as it deserves. One of the recent FWW joint tests put it at the top. That is until the glue decomposes. Probably the easiest possible joint to cut on the bot.

I don't build exterior doors so unless there is a specific reason this exposure would cause glue failure Its worth considering.

I do agree that a Bridal Joint, or Mortise and Tennon/Floating Tennon would be ideal for a heavier door.

[tuck]

I need to make one too, Jack. I personally like the aforementioned idea of cutting it out of a solid sheet of quality plywood, maybe 3/4" MDO. No need for joinery and the door itself can be strategically reinforced if necessary. The edges can be properly sealed and painted and you (we?) should be good to go. Let us see the results on whatever you decide.

[myxpykalix]

because the cost of a good piece of plywood is more then the cost of a already made door i am going to make my door from plain old 2x4's:eek:

I know what you're thinking...:rolleyes:

I'm going to plane it down to 1 1/8th
Using david's recommendation of half lap joints i'm going to glue and dowel it (for looks) and cut my recess in the back to insert the screen frames.
I got a lot of design ideas from his website and probably make a round front for the top with plywood.

i'll post pictures good or bad. If it turns out like **** those pictures might be post-destruction though:D

I think i want to go somewhere between heirloom and hillbilly.....(sounds like i'm leaning more towards "hillbilly" eh dave?)

[tuck]

I think i want to go somewhere between heirloom and hillbilly.....

I hear ya brother. This is what I need to build one for:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f332/Superfan52/outhouse.jpg

[srwtlc]

Wow, at least you have a door! ;)

My Grandpa used to call it a "Two Hole Buick". Pretty chilly on a cold winters night in the northwoods!

[myxpykalix]

Scott I don't see a copy of the montgomery wards catalog out there with several pages missing:eek:

[MogulTx]

Mark,

That is the fanciest looking Outhouse that I have ever seen! NICE work! I love it. And I am glad that I don't normally use an outhouse except when camping!

[srwtlc]

Jack, it was there at one time....many years ago. ;)

[tuck]

Mark,

That is the fanciest looking Outhouse that I have ever seen! NICE work! I love it. And I am glad that I don't normally use an outhouse except when camping!

I must confess,...I didn't build it. It's just an internet image.;)

I does, however, look nicer than some apartments I've lived in! :D

[joe]

Jack

While on a motorcycle trip through upper Pennsylvania, I came across this screen door. It was cut out with a jig saw and hand painted. Perhaps you could make one like this.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e115/jcrumley1/Restraunt-Door.jpg


Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

J

[myxpykalix]

Joe, I'll get right on it:rolleyes: It is a nice piece of craftsmanship for sure....

[Greencarvings]

The reason I posted that joint, is it keeps the door from sagging or moving and getting out of true. Good luck with your endeavor.