Help a newbie - share your biggest mistake:)

[Acmeaviator]

My new BT48 is on it's way and I have switched from excited to terrified:eek:

So before destroying my machine with my own palm-to-forehead moment...perhaps someone would like to share their own mistakes and/or "oh - so that's what happens" moments with us:D

[Steve Groshong]

I have a new BT48 myself and I can tell you that all my mistakes thus far have been in figuring ways to keep parts held down securely. Don't underestimate the need for good clamping, jigs, screw-downs, etc. or the ability of an up-cut bit to lift your part up out of a jig and proceed to destroy it LOL

[MogulTx]

CLOSELY double check which side of the line that the software wants to call "inside" or "outside". For a variety of reasons, what you perceive to be inside you line or vice versa, may not be the same to the logic within the software.... so double check where it indicates that it is going to cut to make sure it is what you want...

Monty

[beacon14]

Always check visually that there is nothing physically in the way between where the bit is now and where it wants to go when you press the button!!

Don't ask me how I know this.

While you are checking also look for air hoses, broom handles, coffee cups, tools etc. that may have been left on the table or leaning against the machine.

[dlcw]

I have a PRSAlpha 60x96 with 2.2hp spindle and air drill.

My biggest mistake was believing the marketing hype that when I received my machine and properly assembled it, it would be ready to go to work for me. 5 weeks later, I finally got all the bugs worked out of it. I was finally able to trust it in regards to repeatability and reliability about 2 months after that.

It was definitely not a plug and play operation. More of a plug and pray operation with a lot of trial and terror and broken router and drill bits.

Now it's the best hired hand I have in the shop. Reliable, repeatable and dependable. I use it more then any other stationary tool in the shop now.

[myxpykalix]

The biggest tip i can give you is (assuming you are getting the emergency cutoff switch in your deal) is for you to duct tape that thing to your palm for the first week because i guarantee you are going to break a bit or ruin some material and this will keep you from messing up something on the bot.
WE ALL HAVE DONE IT, EVEN YEARS LATER...:eek:

[curtiss]

If you do not collect dust, you eat dust...

You might make a few visits.... or request a visit from someone in your area, many will waive consulting fees for pizza or beer...

Again, the decimal point is very important on the z axis....

[michael_schwartz]

Setting a cut depth of 1.0 instead of .01 resulting in a 1.25" diameter bit crashing into a part stalling the router all while a customer is watching :o

Always check you decimal point. Then recheck it, a couple more times :eek: The machine will do exactly what you tell it to do.

[Gary Campbell]

Dont expect computer software to think like you do. And dont expect that same software to catch a mistake when you dont.

[Acmeaviator]

Great stuff- thanks for all the pointers! I had another BT owner warn me about paying especially close attention to the Z axis...seems to be an area for special concern. Anything in a shop can catch you out (I just had a really close call on my router table - evil machine:mad:) so advice from those who have experience is always appreciated!

[gundog]

CLOSELY double check which side of the line that the software wants to call "inside" or "outside". For a variety of reasons, what you perceive to be inside you line or vice versa, may not be the same to the logic within the software.... so double check where it indicates that it is going to cut to make sure it is what you want...

Monty

Also when doing an offset in a pocket or profile double check the direction of the offset + or - by making a toolpath and inch to big or small and run the preview that way it is obvious if you went the right direction then delete said path and put in the proper offset. It is hard to see a .010" offset in the preview but it is very easy to see 1".

There is a big difference between .500" and .050" I have ruined parts to prove it LOL. Don't forget to zero the bit height every time you change bits. Tighten the collet one of my workers forgot this and it damn near eate through the table. The machine always opens the last file you cut so if you go through a file tree to see what bit you want to start with when you close out the file it will not return to that same file you just looked up it will open the last file you cut. I have on several ocasions cut the wrong file because of this.

Mike

[tuck]

If you screw your materials down like I do, make double sure you don't place any screws where the tool path(s) are. You don't want your relatively expensive router bits engaging steel screw heads. It ain't purdy. :o

Use scrap or cheap materials to do test cuts on before you start cutting on the real thing. Maybe buy a sheet or 2 of that cheap pink foam board at Home Depot to practice with, or some 1/2" MDF, perhaps.

Stay active on these boards with questions and problems. Most of the guys and gals in here are more than willing to help. Also, remember to use the search function. Most of your future questions and problems have likely been addressed already.

You're gonna make mistakes, but you won't make many of them more than once or twice. Getting comfortable with and confident in your ability to command your software, as well as selecting the right bit(s) and cutting speeds for the job at hand are probably some of your biggest challenges starting out.

We've all been there. You'll be fine in a short while. Read, study, research, practice, and most of all,...have fun!;)

[adrianm]

My big mistake was spending an entire afternoon going over the wiring and then sending three emails to ShopBot support trying to work out why my spindle wouldn't start on my shiny new PRS Alpha.

Turning the key in the right direction would have helped....:o

On the slightly more critical side of things it's not a good idea to leave the cloth you've been cleaning the rails actually on the rails and then performing a Jog Home command. Took me quite a while to get the fibres out of the pinions and then get everything back in alignment again.

Fortunately that was all in the first three days and it's been plain sailing every since........famous last words!

[dana_swift]

My most recent mistake (today) is not re-zeroing when cutting a new part on thicker material. I still do things like that from time-to-time. They are mostly annoying. Today it did ruin a good piece of wood. Fortunately I had spare material, enough to cover that blunder.

Overall my biggest mistake- was not buying a Shopbot sooner. When you get going with yours I suspect you will understand that. The productivity and quality it provides any given project far outweigh the occasional bit of spontaneous destruction that I seem bent on doing.

Looking forward to your progress and getting pictures of your projects!

D

[CNYDWW]

Biggest mistake was not buying a shopbot in the first palce.

[jim shula]

To paraphrase what Michael said, when the machine screws up, there is always a reason. It's best to take as long as it takes to figure out why before moving on.

[joe]

Brian,

The post by Don Thomson should be posted more often. It took me six months before I ever got it making me any money.

But again, I'm not good with computers or wrenching. Probably should have bought big iron from the start.

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

[jdervin]

Zeroing to the surface of the table when the cutting file was created with Z-zero on top of the material...

[gene]

Always remember to remove the clamp from the bit after the z zero routine BEFORE you turn the spindle on. ( you will never find the clip again , dont ask how i know this)
Also the bot does exactly what you tell it, This may not be what you want it to do but it will be exactly what you told it to do:eek:

[gene]

Oh Yea . watch for fires, they happen ( I hope this dont scare you too bad) never let it run unattended .

[Acmeaviator]

I cannot thank you all enough for all the helpful advice:) My bot will be here early next week (got the scheduling call on Friday) and the first big task is getting it into disassembled into manageable pieces and reassembled in my shop! I am in the middle steps of a business plan that is transitioning my "hobby" into my job. I bought the bot with savings from the "hobby" craft and art fair sales, and I have a regular day job to pay the bills until I get proficient. Will be sure and post up some pictures of the install - if it is anything like what I went through getting my wife's kiln installed it will be great comic reading:p

[michael_schwartz]

The best thing to do when you first get started is to use the bot for a few shop projects. You will gain confidence while making something useful, without much stress.

The machine itself is just a router.

The best way to learn the software is to pick a project and start drafting. Over time you will learn to visualize what the software, and or machine are capable of and you will be able to come up with more creative solutions.

If you haven't received your partworks CD go ahead and download the trial version. You can get started right away.

[cabnet636]

caught my cnc on fire

[chunkstyle]

I would agree with Joe and Don,

Throttle back on your expectations of making money with your machine for a while unless your one of the folks who've had 'no problems' from the get go.
I'm still waiting to get my Z-zero routine fixed since latest SB control software update. As is, I have sheet stock getting dropped this week for a house's case work and have three more houses pending from the same builder it looks like I have my summer booked up. I've had my bot for well over a year and still have little confidence in it's ability to function as advertised. I should be in a great mood considering this economy but instead I have a growing sense of dread.
Taken as a whole, if you factor in the cost of ownership over with the initial purchase price, (in my experience anyway) Shopbot has left a lot to be desired.

My advice for you to make money would be:

-buddy up to an electronics engineer.
-buddy up to a software engineer.
-buddy up to your local yoga buddhist mystic philosopher to give you the patience.

Tim

[john_rice]

I use nylon clamps. They're available from Lowes for $10. I do cut-through work on sheets of 1/2" mdf. No matter how many times I set the safe Z travel height a new file sometimes gets it reverted to a height too low and my bit hits the clamps. The nylon clamps have been great, but they don't keep the board from sliding, so I use small screws in the
corners of the mdf.

You might also keep some electricians tape on hand for rewiring the z-zero clip. After sending my first clip flying it became a rule to go stand in front of the clip until until the z-zero process was done and the clip safely stowed. I waited a year before ordering a new clip assembly, but the standard procedure worked well when followed. lol

Good luck and have fun.

[cowboy1296]

There is not enough room on here to list them all and I thought until I read this post that I was the only one making them.

Never take anything for granite.

Go back every now and then and review the software and any tutorial you can find on the shopbot. You would be surprised what did not make sense in the beginning a few months later is elementary and makes sense.

Although a lot of people stay with v-carve, 3d is really not that hard to grasp. Its a heck of a lot slower but the products can be rewarding.

With a buddy clamping can be challenging. There are several ways to go, if you need an idea i will re post pictures of mine.

[myxpykalix]

Tim,
"I've had my bot for well over a year and still have little confidence in it's ability to function as advertised"

One of the first things I learned is the bot will do exactly and only what you tell it to do (if we could program wives and girlfriends the same way we would have it made:eek:)

However if you are having problems maybe we can help you get on the right track so you will be happy with your end result.

Tell us what your issue is and i'm sure someone here has experienced it and can advise you how to resolve it.:D

[cowboy1296]

funny quote but could be harzardous to your health but i agree: )

one of my boneheaded recent mistakes was trying to run the buddy off of a usb memory disk instead of saving it to the computer and then running it. naturally i had some communication errors.

[chunkstyle]

Thanks Jack,

That's very generous of you. I might take you up on that if I don't hear from SB this week.
Also don't want to hijack Brian's thread. When I saw his wanting to use the SB for a money making proposition he might be relying on for a livelyhood, it seemed like it would be worth sharing my experiences if only to temper his expectations. His results may vary though and I hope he has smooth sailing.

[wberminio]

It's ALWAYS YOUR FAULT! NO Matter what happens!

Check Check and Check again-Before you hit Start!

[myxpykalix]

Tim,
I see some guys here who make a good living with thier bots and some guys who can't seem to get it together and you see them offer to sell their bots a year after they buy them.

It's kind of like how "artists" don't make good businessmen. I think if you are going to try to make money with a bot you need to have a general idea of who your market is, what your products will be, what it costs to manufacture, what you sell it for and what your profit is.

It sounds to me like you have a bit of a frustration factor going on and when you have all this vast wealth of knowledge and experience here at your fingertips you should take advantage of it. I'm getting close to 4000 posts and in the beginning most were questions which saved me from getting frustrated and giving up and in all those questions I can only remember one JERK who basically said "figure it out for yourself":eek: I haven't seen him here for years...

The only stupid question is the one you don't ask...(man, i'm profound!:rolleyes:)

[burchbot]

If you are not sure you set Z zero after a tool change, do it again.
If you are running a number of tools on one part and the tool you just called up moves to a spot where it shouldn’t be. Stop it! It won’t change its mind and move over.
If you are routing names and dates, Check and recheck that they are right before you run it.
Dan

[chunkstyle]

Jack,

I've got a pretty good handle on who my customer base is. I also know where my pricing should be. Ditto on purchasing.
My bot issue's have been vapor locking on machine and SB3 control software.
Gary's grounding advice has helped with the false prox switch misfires. There are a few other items to track down as well, by his recommendation.

Point is though, things work or don't work by design. That includes our cutting files, are machine set ups and the machine itself. Owners realize a portion of the responsibility for the machine to run well lies with them.


Machine lock ups, software lock ups, comm errors have been talked about and remedies have been found thru this forum. I been helped in this way as well. What Brian might discover is that he has not budgeted enough time for machine set up time and fixes in his business plan.

My machine locking up with the bit spinning away in material and the E-stop not working is not because I told it to do so. Neither is the VFD com disruption when spindle turns on my design (though tech support has given me a work around for that and it does work), or the SB3 locking up and computer having to be rebooted, etc.. You get the idea. I've been dealing with these issues and tried all posted remedies remedies read about.

IF Brian experiences any of these often discussed problems he will be paying to get them resolved, one way or another. If...

[tuck]

Doesn't ShopBot offer, for a price, technicians to come to new customer locations and set up new machines then make sure everything is in working order? If they still do, I imagine it's expensive, but expense can be a relative thing. Having a shiny new expensive machine you can't rely on could be expensive in and of itself, not to mention frustrating.

My old PR rack & pinion was giving me problems a while back with ragged cuts on everything but straight line cuts. Circles, ovals and diagonals were a mess. I was doing lots of sanding and a fair amount of cussin', 'cause I had no idea what the problem could be. One day, upon close inspection, I discovered that one of the stepper motor pinion gears had worked loose and wasn't fully engaging the rack teeth. It was a quick, easy fix and back to smooth sailing, but it took me weeks to figure out what the problem was. I was happy I fixed it, but I felt like an idiot at the same time. Sometimes problems hide in plain sight and in this particular case the problem was due to lack of maintenance. :o

[beacon14]

Tim, out of curiosity have you tried running the machine with a different computer? I had intermittent com problems - turned out to be a defective memory card in the computer. Had me scratching my head for months, finally found it when the rest of the computer died and I took it in for repairs.

[michael_schwartz]

I feel pretty confident in saying that my machine works as advertised.

The one major problem I have come across turned out a USB problem caused by a defective keyboard or mouse that came bundled with a refurbished PC. Not taking chances I threw both out and bought name brand replacements. Problem Soved.

The issue was com related and would result in the software locking up while the machine was running. A $30.00 fix. Been trouble free for a year!

[gc3]

My new BT48 is on it's way and I have switched from excited to terrified:eek:

So before destroying my machine with my own palm-to-forehead moment...perhaps someone would like to share their own mistakes and/or "oh - so that's what happens" moments with us:D

...your gonna wish you got a bigger machine :eek:

[tuck]

...your gonna wish you got a bigger machine :eek:

Ain't THAT the truth? I have a 4 x 8 and wish I had a 5 x 10. A friend has a 5 x 10 and wishes he had a 6 x 12! :D

[gene]

Erminio,
That sounds like what my wife says

[dana_swift]

I have a BT-32 and rarely want a bigger area. Usually I work in the 24x34 envlope. When I need bigger I have power sticks. That is one place the buddy really has the advantage over gantry routers. Little room needed until the project requires more, then it gets little again between the big projects.

:)

[dana_swift]

I have a BT-32 and rarely want a bigger area. Usually I work in the 24x34 envelope. When I need bigger I have power sticks. That is one place the buddy really has the advantage over gantry routers. Little room needed until the project requires more, then it gets little again between the big projects.

:)

[Acmeaviator]

I hear you guys about having a bigger machine! The VAST majority of my work is on a pretty small scale - in fact I nearly went with the CNC pro machine that Rockler offers and it is only 24x24. Today I have to call the delivery company and schedule the delivery and play 20 questions with the dispatcher - if they cannot send a box truck with a lift-gate I'll have to re-route the delivery to my day job (the owner will let me use the loading dock and some warehouse space) and break down the bot there to transport to my shop. In either case I'll post up delivery pics:D

[michael_schwartz]

Many of the solid wood projects that I have cut could be done on machine with a 2x4 foot print. If I did not need to cut sheet goods, I think I would be happy with a buddy and power stick. I almost went that way but I decided to go 4x8 to cut cabinet parts. I am glad I did because my business is going in that direction.

If the Buddy works out and makes you money buying a larger machine shouldn't be an issue. It is important to start within your means and not over buy.

[blackhawk]

When that little window pops up reminding you to turn on your router before running a file, don't ignore it. Cut quality is awful when the bit is not spinning:)

As a bonus, you get to spend an hour getting the v-rollers back on track and indicating in your router alignment.

[supertigre]

Do not drill holes with Compression bits or Down Spirals. Cut out holes are OK but not drilled!!! DAMHIKT :oO

[Rob Gunn]

Michael is totaly correct "The best thing to do when you first get started is to use the bot for a few shop projects. You will gain confidence while making something useful, without much stress."

I have had my PRT96 for about 3 months now and so far thats all I have done is "in house projects". I would rather learn and make mistakes on my own stuff rather than someone else's time and material. Of coarse I have a daytime job that pays the bill and so far the ShopBot is just a hobby. However, someday soon it will have to start earning its keep.

So far the worse mistake I have done is hitting a screw in the table while resurfacing. Bad way to trash a new $45 cutter...

[gene]

When i first got mine i broke so many bits that it wasnt even funny, The directions do help. study them , also one of the reasons i purchased a shopbot was the help of this forum and the help that Scott gave me. At one time he told me that he woke up answering the phone by saying Yea Gene, what is it now (just kidding) all the help is fantastic!:D

[michael_schwartz]

When I come across a problem the first question I ask is what did I program the machine to do. 95% of the time that's how I arrive at an answer.

Another lesson I have learned is that working with an audience is a bad thing. When I have somebody watching I start making dumb mistakes that would never happen otherwise. Make sure you are not distracted and that your full attention is on the operation at hand.

Keep an eye on the dust foot until you are sure that it won't get in the way, or cause problems. If your unsure take it off. The things to watch out for are the shoe dropping down and catching on a tall piece, or getting wedged between a part and the Z axis, stalling the machine.

For hold down I prefer screws. I prefer to use washer head Kreg (pocket screws) as they are self drilling, and its difficult to break the heads off. You can put them right up against the edge hardwoods with only minor splitting. If I have a lot of complicated screw locations that are close to the path of a bit, I draw out the locations on the part in Aspire, and create a drilling tool path to mark the locations. If you use this method you can place screws as close to a toolpath as you dare.

Of the purchases I have made since I bought my machine these 3 items have proven to be the most necessary.

Aspire -

Upgrading to Aspire was a great decision, and has opened up many new doors and allowed me to take on projects I wouldn't have touched otherwise. I do not like to cut 3D clip art as I would rather make something original that I can put my name on. The other important thing is to avoid thinking of 3D work just as carving. I have started cutting many parts etc... in 3D. My last project were buisness card holders modeled, and cut in 3D (pictures soon).

Precise Bits Collets -

The stock collets that come with the porter cable router are far too easy to over tighten resulting in many difficult bit changes. The Precise bits aftermarket collets are beautifully made, have less run out, and are just about impossible to over tighten.

Digital Calipers.

I find multiple uses for these on just about every project.

[jerry_stanek]

when I got mine had a hard time with neg moves. it was zeroed in the middle of the table and every time I tried to move to the zero coner it moved further away.

[mims]

Don't drill with a down spiral.

Keep in mind that, due to acceleration, depending on the shape of your cuts, your machine might not ever get up to 'full feed speed' during a cut. Therefore you have to have a feel for proper spindle speeds. Let's say you program for 180ipm at 15000rpm and you are cutting something with lots of direction changes. Your machine will probably not ever go 180ipm during the cut and you should lower your RPM to compensate.

Get a vacuum hold down if possible. It made my cnc experience much, much more enjoyable.

[gene]

One way i found to do holes is to use a bit smaller than the hole size you need and do an area clear , This keeps heat from building up on the bit and wood. If you need a 1/4" hole use a 3/16 bit and a area clear toolpath. I tried drilling with a compression bit and had a good fire going in no time

[curtiss]

Just this week I learned that one should spray some oil on your garage door springs a few times a year.... which makes them last longer.

The door comes down very fast with only one spring :eek: and then is very hard to lift to get to the bot...

[tuck]

I tried drilling with a compression bit and had a good fire going in no time

Ok, that made me lol! :D

[gene]

I didnt laugh when i did it , i did pour a biggie sweet tea from wendys on it quickly . it was amazing how fast it caught on fire with the roots blower pulling a vac thru it. Perfect conditions for a disaster. :eek:

[geneb]

Here's graphic evidence of what happens when you drill with a downspiral and you've got a vacuum system:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub6X8pjo5ls

g.