What V-Carve angle to use?

[Rob Gunn]

OK, I am still new to the ShopBot and V-Carve. I have been asked to do a few welcome signs for a customer and now I am wondering what is the most acceptable tool angel for text? Are there any rules that someone can offer? When is it better to use a 90 degree or 60 degree or 120 degree or 15 degree? I have been playing around with scrap and I think the 90 degree gives the best looking text but I am curious what others are doing and why.

[dana_swift]

Rob- the decision is more dependent on how deep you want the carving to go. Most text v-carving depth is determined by the distance between the lines of the glyphs and not the flat depth. Letters have to get pretty big before the flat depth comes into play.

So.. if the letter stem width is 0.25, a 90 degree bit will go 0.125 deep. A 60 degree bit will go 0.217" deep.

The narrower the angle the deeper the cut until it reaches the flat depth.

Either one of them will look good, 60deg will create more of a shadow than 90 and may appear to have more contrast.

Cut some foam, or scrap, and see which one you prefer!

D

[Rob Gunn]

Dana, thanks for the input. Basically what I have been doing is playing around with scrap and experimenting with tool angle, speeds and feeds. I am getting better over time but I do like to hear what others are doing and why. Attached is what I did last night, I think it turned our fairly good. Now that my part of the project is done its now in the hands of my girl friend to get the painting done. I will post that when she is done.

[GlenP]

Hey Rob. I use a variety of angle bits for vcarving. It also can depend on what finish you are doing. Your sign you posted looks good. I have 60, 90, 120 and I think it is a 170 degree bits. The 120 and 170 are 2" diameter bits made by onsrud. I use the larger bits for large lettering and if gold leaf is involved. The gold needs more edge to reflect on and in my opinion 60 or 90 deg are not enough. Like Dana says play around and do samples for customers to give them options. Lok forward to your painted pics. :cool:

[rej]

that might have been a good one for paint mask.
i can see a gloss black background with gold leaf letters!

[dana_swift]

Rob, I am clearly not a sign maker, so the ones I have done used very simple methods.

What I would have done is pre-paint the face of the material with a dark color, then carve the letters, that makes them very visible.

Im sure the sign folks have even better ideas-

D

[Brady Watson]

Here's a little recipe of sorts that I came up with long ago. Copied from archives:

---

Bob,
As Guy points out, depth is varied depending on the distance between the 2 vector boundaries that are being cut.

The other thing that affects carving depth is the angle of the bit. The higher numerical angle the shallower it cuts, and vice versa holds true with smaller angle bits. Try out different bits in Pro and take notice of the values it gives you on the v-carving toolpath tab when you select a tool and click on the centerline button. It will tell you the max depth & width that the selected tool will give you on the selected vectors. If you keep that tab open, you can keep selecting tools until you are happy with the depth value. The width value is practically of no use. If you find that the tool is going too deep for your material, then raise the numerical angle of the bit, which will result in a shallower cut. (IE- 90° cuts too deep for your material or takes too many passes to get to full depth ~ switch to a 120°)

Here's a rough 'recipe' that I use when doing v-carved signs and lettering. Use it as a rough gauge for your projects:

Text Height---- Recommended Bit Angle
< 1" ----------- 45° to 60°
1 to 2" -------- 60°
2 to 4" -------- 60° to 90°
4 to 6" -------- 90°
6 to 10" ------- 90° to 120°
Over 10" ------- 120° to higher°

Keep in mind that these are general guidlines that I personally use. They will function as a good basis for your own personal findings on your tool. Material thickness is a major factor in choosing bit angle as well as the diameter of the V-bit itself. If you are going to do a lot of v-carving in 1.5 or 2" HDU foam, then I recommend buying 1, 1.25. 1.75" diameter 60°, 90° and 120° bits from Onsrud, Gerber & Eagle America respectively. You can also buy insert type cutters from Her-Saf. A bit pricey, but they are worth it in the long run.

This should get you started...Hope it was of help to you & others.

--

-B

[joe]

Rob,

Your panel is technically excellent. However, the message is confusing and difficult to read. That's because the weight and stroke of the copy is to close and the line spacing too simular.

If I get a chance I'll reset the copy with a few suggestion in a PM.

V carving is ALWAYS deliclate on all fonts at all times. For example: Plain old Helvetica Medium if carved a little too deep looses it's crispness. The same way with formal scrips like Balmoral. For this reason I always make several passes to get the perfect depth. Sometimes I'll have a half dozen steps down before I'm happy. You have entered an area where no depth guage will be accurate enough. This is a visual process and formula's seldom work.

For me, letter height isn't important. It's the letter stroke you are working with. Two reasons. Visability is the name of the game. V carving is often hard to read at distance. For that reason alone a flatter bit may be a better choice. The second consideration is material thickness.

Keep up the tests. You'll quickly become comfortable with this carving skill. You're well on the way.

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

[cowboy1296]

Almost everything that i do is big. My boards run from 1.25 to 2 inches thick and thicker. For no real reason i like my lettering to be as close to .3 inch deep as possible. so using the partworks i am able to see the different depths depending one what bit i use. naturally my 60 degree bits get used the most, followed by the 90 and on occasion the 120.

Now that said some of my smaller and script lettering cant be that deep.

[joe]

Wish I could get by with such a simple formula. Creative work seldom responds to formula's.

We all like sharp, clean edges but when carving in rough cut lumber some sacrifice is necessary. I love carving in rough cedar. My farm and horse ranch owners like texture left behind from the saw mill. To get a nice clean edge takes refined masking. The problem with V bits is they are like sharp paddles and can derstroy deliclate small pieces. For example when I'm carving in Cypress I make sure the surface is hardened up a little with shellac. For me,
masking is a necessary part of the process.

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

[gc3]

here is one done with a 2" 120 degree bit

[backyard_cnc]

Thanks for the picture Gene, I wonder what is the translation of the name into english? What font is that to get the triangles along the leading edge?

Gerald

[joe]

Chip Carvers are the fellows who lead the way with V carving.

Since they aren't limited by bit angles, they're free to do about anything the imagination leads. I'd suggest looking over this freehand work for sign idea's. Lets not have routing machines hinder creative work. If you embrace the notion of choosing V bits according to letter height you'll be going down the wrong path. The first and most important consideration is letter stroke. The weight of your font sets the bit angle and depth.

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ3om-rjIfOu7smfcUcrYDj6NPdIT0hR1JzRK-7c5Gu-T_qdCGQiA

[Rob Gunn]

You guys are the greatest, thanks so much for all the feedback. Bradys list of text size vs. bit angle is really a great help that makes sense in my simple brain. The photo that I put on the forum last week was a 1/4 scale sample of just the oval that the customer actually wants. Attached is a concept preview of the whole sign (48" x 36") that is needed, a few changes still need to be ironed out with the customer. We just got the order today and I will post photos of the final full size when we get it done. Thanks again for all the help.:)

[penman]

Rob,

I personally think the sign looks great, but a question. Should there be an s after guest?

Regards and cheers,

Roger.

[Rob Gunn]

Rodger, I cant believe I missed that! The customer has seen this and didn't catch it so maybe I could have gotten away with it? But I would rather make it right. Thanks so much!

[gc3]

Thanks for the picture Gene, I wonder what is the translation of the name into english? What font is that to get the triangles along the leading edge?

Gerald

three freckle ranch

uncey font

[Rob Gunn]

OK, we finally found ourselves at the end of this project. Attached is the final outcome. Many thanks to all on this forum for the advise that was given and a special thanks to my girlfriend that did all the painting. We are very happy with the outcome and looking forward to doing more of this work. Rob

[backyard_cnc]

Gene,

sorry for delay in response but haven't been around the forum for some time. I like the whimsical in the name 3 freckle ranch but I am guessing it has some personal meaning. The font is very neat and I have downloaded and installed it from the net for use in a project at some future point. Never have to many fonts on hand.
thanks for your input!!!!

Gerald

[joe]

Rob,

After re-reading my response to your excellent sign, I should probably apologize. It's an attractive example of gilding with black outline. Your outline lady deserves extra complements. Those outlines really make the gold stand out.

What I intended to say the lettering, The font style and letter size being so uniform keeps your viewers eye from settling on your subject line. Most fonts come in Light, Medium and Heavy weight. It's one way to move the viewers eye around the sign..

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e115/jcrumley1/Rivera.jpg

How to choose a V bit:
Letter height isn't what you should be worried about. Visability is the name of the game. For that reason I seldom use a 60 degree bit. No matter what size the letters. The rule of thumb is to consider the wider bits first. It's the stroke of the letter you need to consider first, not the height. That's certainly the case for Gilded letters, and especially so if they are small. Don't be fooled thinking that shallow letter won't be visible. sometimes you have to stand back to see their affect.

Keep up the good work. It's always fun to see what you're doing

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com