Standalone Indexer Build

[br928]

After several years of collecting various ShopBot components I finally decided to build a standalone indexer.

A couple of months ago I bought rails off the forum from a botter that was upgrading from 4' to and 8'. Getting the extruded aluminum, hardened rails and racks was the last thing I needed to start this project. I already had a 4G board, motors, indexer and a Z axis assembly.

In this design I will use one of the extruded rails as the base for the indexer. I mounted the hardened rail assemblies to opposite sides of one extruded aluminum rail.

A plate was cut that will be the bottom of the gantry carriage. Four Dual Vee wheels are mounted to this plate. Two of them are fixed and two are adjustable. That way the preloading of the wheels to the hardened vee rail can be set.

This plate also holds the stepper motor that will drive the gantry. Because this design makes reaching the motor mounting bolts difficult, a separate motor plate was cut. This way the pinion engagement can easily be adjusted.

The second extruded rail will be cut in sections that will make up the rest of the gantry. Two vertical and one horizontal cross piece. The Z axis will then bolt to top cross section.

These are some pictures of what I have done so far. Keep in mind these are views of the bottom of the gantry plate. The indexer will mount to the other side.

[dougo]

Looking forward for your updates.

Thanks

[br928]

I received the gussets, brackets and joining plates today. This is what the top part of the gantry looks like.

[myxpykalix]

Stan,
This looks like a neat project and well put together. What is the max width and length you will be doing with this?
Will you be using the regular control software to run your indexer?
keep the updates coming:D

[br928]

Jack,

I am using a standard ShopBot indexer. The capacity is about a 5" radius. 6" if you jump through hoops. Length capacity should be 4-5 feet.

Control will be a 4G board w/ Gecko G201Xs and SB control software.

[Brady Watson]

Looks great so far, Stan. I'd recommend 4 more v-roller bearings on that Z. It will really stiffen it up & make that t-rail last a lot longer.

-B

[fozzyber]

Can you expand on this? Why and results, experiences....


Looks great so far, Stan. I'd recommend 4 more v-roller bearings on that Z. It will really stiffen it up & make that t-rail last a lot longer.

-B

[Brady Watson]

Jerry,
Early PRTs were shipped with 4 v-rollers on the Z. This was fine for most lightweight routers and for people cutting mostly 2D where there wasn't a lot of Z movement in the file. As heavier spindles became more popular and access to 3D files became easier for the masses to cut, the t-rail got a lot more action than it used to. 4 rollers barely support all that weight. 8 really does a much better job of distributing the forces of cutting from the spindle and the rest of the machine.

I'm on my 3rd t-rail after hundreds of thousands of parts...the 4 additional rollers drastically extend the life of the t-rail. The rails then to wear in the spot that you use most frequently - 4 more rollers spreads this load out a bit so that you don't go from tight in one spot to loose in another spot. For some of you, your z tower already has provisions for 4 more rollers. Those who do not, will have to drill some 1/4" holes.

-B

[br928]

New mounting holes in the T-Rail had to be machined for the 1 1/2" spacing of the extruded aluminum.

[br928]

PC router, headstock and tailstock mounted.

[rej]

brady, can you show some pics of your extra rollers?

[Brady Watson]

1st post, 5th pic (http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13433)

There should be a new thread if you have additional questions about this so that we don't hijack Stan's build thread.

-B

[jimboy]

That looks great. Waiting to see some finished projects
James

[br928]

Last weekend I got around to putting my pile of ShopBot control components in an enclosure for the indexer.

I am using an 4G board with Gecko G201X's and a G202 (It's what I had on hand). I am using an 48VDC power supply for the motor power and a computer PS for the logic power.

A 4 channel relay board was added to enable a remote start/stop station for the router. The router can only be started manually when output #4 is on. This will also turn the router off when the end of the cut file is reached or if the E-Stop is hit. The green 'Start' PB is lit when output#4 turns on and indicates a permissive to start the router. Once pressed the red 'Stop' PB is lit and indicates the router contactor is energized (If the router main switch is on, the router starts). When output #4 turns off the contactor drops out, the router stops and all lights are turns off.

A cooling fan will keep the enclosure at room temperature. I picked up a pleated air filter for a lawn mower to install over the intake to keep the fine dust out (I haven't installed it yet).

[br928]

This weekend a stand for the indexer and control box was built.

Castors were used to move the indexer when not being used.

E-Chain off Ebay was used for cable management from the control box to the gantry. Looks like it will get its share of sawdust being located under the gantry!

I am still thinking about some type of panels on the front and rear to help contain the sawdust. Anyone have any ideas? Maybe some cheap paneling.

[bleeth]

Terrific Stan. Looks like you got it licked in time to do a cane for Angus!

[myxpykalix]

i think that is fantastic, my only question is why didn't you go bigger? it seemed to me that you didn't get much more then if you had just built it on the bot.
what are you thinking you will be making with this setup?

i do like the idea that you can run this while also running your bot.
all in all it looks extremely well made you should be proud of your work, great job!:D

[br928]

Jack,

I had it built onto my ShopBot but never used it.

The length was fixed by the rails I bought from another Botter who upgraded from a 4' to an 8' machine. These rails probably give me 12 to 18 inches more length than I had before. I would think this will cover 90% or more of the projects I have seen posted.

Dave,

I think I am better at designing machines than canes! Now I have a learning curve with the rotary wrapping software. But, you have to have a car before you can learn to drive one. Now I have a better incentive to invest the time required.

[myxpykalix]

stan u are correct in that probably 90% of what you might want to make you will be able to do and frankly if you need say a longer bedpost you can figure out a design that will allow you to be able to make it in sections and dowel it together.

its just that other 10% that you are going to regret...:eek:

if you need advice on some spirals, i made a app to write spiral sbp files, i could make you something if needed.:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSy8PGj2eDU&feature=related

[jimboy]

Stan,
Excellent project. Wish I had the time to undertake something like this.
Jim

[CNYDWW]

Looks great so far and i'd like to see it in action. I've actually been thinking about a two axis setup on a regular lathe. I'd like to try tools for a lathe duplicator instead of rotary bit. Depending on how it's setup most of the programming would obviously in 2D with only the two axis setup.

Regards
Randy

[br928]

Last night I woke the FrankenBot up for the first time. No real supprises. I had to reassign some axis channels and directions. Also need to tweek the unit values for a 20 tooth pinion.

Now to learn to use Aspire and the wrapping software.

Anyone know why the Aspire Indexer postprocessor only allows wrapping the X axis values around the Y? It's an easy workaround it just seems that they would give you a choice depending on how you set your indexer up on a normal table.

[srwtlc]

Stan,

You can copy the X and Y indexer pp's from the C:\SbParts\PartWorksPosts folder and paste them into the Aspire user data pp folder. You can also modify the one that is in Aspire and save as wrap Y by changing this line accordingly...

ROTARY_WRAP_X = "yes"

You'd also want to change this line so it is recognizable in the pp list.

POST_NAME = "ShopBot (Indexer)(inch)(*.sbp)"

[br928]

Scott,

I have Part wizard and not PartWorks so I don't have those PP to move.

I looked at the PP in Aspire. What do you change (ROTARY_WRAP_X = "yes" ) to? ROTARY_WRAP_Y = "yes" ?


There is also some code in the PP that generates the X,Y and Z output. It seems like that would also have to be modified.

[srwtlc]

Stan,

Yes, that's what you would change. When saving a toolpath with them in Aspire, a "Wrapped Output" dialog will pop up stating which axis is going to be wrapped (set by the pp) and also asking the diameter and Z axis location (top or center of cylinder).

And yes, you're right about having to change the other values (forgot about that, sorry).

I don't have an indexer, so I'm just going by what I know about Aspire and the pp's.

Attached are the two PartWorks pp's. which have all the values set as needed.

[br928]

Scott,

I modified the code that generates the line output and it looks good. You have to change the position of where the X and Y are written.

[srwtlc]

The two that I attached won't need that. Sorry, could've saved ya some work if I'd been a little quicker on the post. ;)

[ATX Poly Products]

Stan,

That is one impressive undertaking! I'm glad the rails worked out for you!

Adam

[GlenP]

Okay Stan you said FrakenBot is alive so.....lets see some video of it alive. :cool:You could call the video Our Little FrakenBot and his first steps. :)
Nice build. One question though Stan......with all the extrusion and metal in the build, why the wood base. Just wondering.

[br928]

Glen,

The extrusions are rails I bought from Adam. To build the rest of the frame with extruded aluminum was going to cost over $400. Besides just looking cool, there was no return on investment. The 2x4's were on the shelf.

I haven't figured out how to post videos on here!

[scottbot]

Stan,
Post the video(s) to YouTube and then post the link here. We would love to see FrankenBot in action.

Scott

[jimboy]

I'll second the YouTube video.

[br928]

I will try to do a video later, but for now a picture will have to do.

Not having any suitable wood for a blank I used some heavy wall PVC conduit.

There is always a learning curve with a new machine. I had several people that wanted to watch the first cuts. For you new ShopBotters (and old ones) when starting a new machine lock everyone out until you know it will respond the way you expect it to. Today's lesson: When zeroing to the center of an indexer it is 1/2 the diameter of the blank from the surface. When you use the diameter and not the radius you can imagine where the first plunge went. My onlookers were amused. Like I said....lock everyone out!

To keep from making Z Zero errors in the future I will mount a Z Zero plate on the top of the headstock. From there it is a fixed distance to the center of the rotational axis. Then all I have to do is run the ZZero routine with every bit change.

I used a 1/4" end mill for the roughing pass and a 1/8" ball mill at 20% stepover for the final pass. This was just a quick test.

Last night I counted four ShopBot's that had "donated" parts from the SB graveyard for this build. For those who wondered where FrankenBot came from. Old ShopBots can come back to life!

[gc3]

you are on your way!!! congrats

[GlenP]

Very cool Stan. Looks like it is working great. And where is this SB Graveyard you speak of.....
Look forward to the video of young Frankenbot. Home movies are great.

[br928]

Glen,

The SB graveyard has its own section in this forum. Its the "For Sale/Wanted" section. That's where I picked up most of the parts over the years. I have even sold some there. If I am not mistaken I sold my first PC router to Gene there after I bought my spindle. By the way Gene I had to buy another PC air deflector for this build after I sold you my first one. I don't think they make or sell them any more. It is a great accessory for the PC router.

I forgot why I always had ear protection around my pre spindle ShopBot until I fired up the PC router on this build. Wow....what a difference.

[br928]

Does anyone know where I can find a STL file for a Frankenstein head? I think that would be an appropriate first project.

[fozzyber]

http://www.turbosquid.com/Search/Index.cfm?keyword=frankenstein&x=0&y=0
Ask and you shall.......

[br928]

Today's addition: A Z-Zero plate to help reduce operator error (Like that's possible).

The plate is attached with double sided foam tape to keep it isolated from the gearbox.

[myxpykalix]

Stan,
If you want a quick and easy way to find center 0,0 here is what i did.
take a 2x6 and tap the flat side into the dead center on tailstock to mark that location.
Draw a line at that height and cut it at that height on your table saw.

you now have a jig that is at the 0,0 height in the center of your material.

take your jig and set Zzero plate on top and zero it to it and you are done.
I see you made a plate but this might be a good back up.

[br928]

Jack,

I can see how that would work well. I didn't have an extra ZZero plate to use on this machine.

How do you zero after changing bits using the jig?

[myxpykalix]

just repeat the same process. however you have to set the jig to the side of your mounted project.
Or you could make a offcenter jig like in the picture.

[br928]

Unfortunately, On a standalone indexer you can't move the Z off the B (rotational) axis. It is fixed along the Y axis. My 3 axis are Y, B and Z.

[myxpykalix]

see now thats the ONE THING i didn't take into consideration:eek:

i didn't look back at the beginning of the thread...did you say you use aspire? in the wrapping function does it have an option to Z zero to the material surface?

With the spiraling app i made i wanted to be able to zero to the surface of the material because my thinking at the time was i wanted to be able to chuck up differeing thiucknesses of material and zero and go.
That way i didn't have to measure each piece or rezero to the center constantly.

the issue i alway had with putting a plate on top and zeroing there was, how do you accurately measure the distance from the surface of the mounted plate to the center of the shaft of the indexer in order to input some type of offset?

I'm sure if you lower a bit to the center of the shaft (with chuck off) then ZERO it there. Raise bit up and over to your plate and lower it to your plate.
That measurement will be your distance from the center to your plate and therefore your offset distance.
Since i have never used offsets i can't tell you specifically where to input that on your fill in sheet.

if i understand your issue once you change a bit with material in the indexer you have no way to physically go to Center ZERO, right?

so you have to be able to put in various sizes material and within the software be able to rezero without doing it mechanically?

That was some of the issues i faced and what we wrote was a way to zero to the surface of the material, input the depth of cut, and have a variable clearance Z height setting.
Sounds to me like your problem is you have no Y movement.

Hang on for a bit while i go get my "Thinking Cap" out of the closet and dust it off to try to figure this one out:eek:


after going back and looking at your photos the one qiuck thought was, using the original jig i talked about, when you have to re Z for a different tool you can move your carriage down past the end of your tailpiece and Rezero with the jig there. THe net result is you would lose a couple inches of length in your axis

[meatbal80]

Couldn't you z to something on the build that is static, motor, tailstock, or base. This would have a simple correlation to the center of the work piece and the motor, right? I dont own an indexer, yet so i dont know some of the workings.

[Gary Campbell]

Stan...
Nice job. Makes pefect sense, as it it always the same offset from center. Fixed plates usually return better results than moveable.

[br928]

Here is my attempt at a YouTube video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7w_ylyRR2_0

I remember the days when people said 'draw me a picture'. Then 'take a picture'. Now they have to have moving pictures! I guess holograms are next.

[bleeth]

Yoiks-It woiks!!:D

[gc3]

Nicely done.....love the video!

[Brady Watson]

Yeah - great job. Thanks for posting the vid.

-B

[br928]

Here is a video of my first 3D rotary relief.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRJhtNGmR3g

And yes, the video is speeded up somewhat.

Final cut time is about 20 min.

[gc3]

Nicely done! Looks like it is working very well...

So do you plan on marketing kits for a "Frakenbot SAI".....

[br928]

Gene,

What is "SAI"?

Strictly a DIY project. Would be glad to help anyone interested in building one. I bet you have enough spare parts laying around.

[gc3]

Gene,

What is "SAI"?

Strictly a DIY project. Would be glad to help anyone interested in building one. I bet you have enough spare parts laying around.


Stand Alone Indexer.....

[jimboy]

Very nice Stan
Jim

[br928]

Oh.....duh....I couldn't find it in my acronym dictionary!

Thanks Jim


Stand Alone Indexer.....

[myxpykalix]

Stan you would really have something there if that was cutting in real time:eek:

it seems to work well on its maiden voyage!

love the soundtrack:D

[kevin]

As some one that has an indexing head .This is amazing

Thanks for the ideas

[James Schlatre]

Stan, Gald to see you go it going. Looks and works great.

[Woodie49]

Does any one have Plans/ Drawings for a Stand Alone Indexer?
Thanks

[br928]

Larry,

I have never seen plans or drawings for an indexer. You are going to have to search the web and look at project builds like this one and roll your own.

[Woodie49]

I haven't been able to fine too much, for one.
Thanks

[bgriggs]

New mounting holes in the T-Rail had to be machined for the 1 1/2" spacing of the extruded aluminum.

Can you tell me where you got the T-rails?

Bill

[br928]

Can you tell me where you got the T-rails?

Bill


Bill,

Those T-Rails were included as part of ShopBot's Indexer package.