Ideal Control PC Specs?

[DanThomson]

Ok, here is my story.
I bought a PRS 48"x48" that was never used from a member on this forum.
Originally I had set the machine up with an older Dell PC with Windows XP, after a lot of comm issues I scrapped the Dell and was running it from my older Macbook dual booted into Windows XP, this worked pretty well until I upgraded my machine to a 2.2hp 220v Single Phase Spindle.
So I decided that I needed to bite the bullet and buy a PC specifically for the bot.

Not wanting to spend a lot, I thought I would try one of HP's Slimline Models,
I bought a HP s5747c with 4gb RAM, 500gb HD, 6-USB 2.0 ports and Windows 7.
When I hooked it up, still was only getting low 70's in the speed test with or without IOGear usb hub.
All in all was working pretty good other than the occasional comm error...fast forward about a week....then came the software freezing.

Basically when beginning a job, I would hit OK to start the spindle then boom software would lock up and have to be force quit.
After some troubleshooting I was able to discover that I could run any part file no problem if I ran it as an air cut with the spindle key disengaged.
It seemed that as soon as the spindle would kick on it was locking up the SB software.
Yesterday I spent a few hours on the phone with Frank from tech support describing my problem to him, in which he told me it sounded like an electrical noise issue, now I don't know much about electrical noise but I didn't think it would just show up all of a sudden.
He recommended a $195.00 input filter which I did not wanna buy without knowing for sure that it was electrical noise that suddenly was effecting my machine.
I did some more troubleshooting, moved the PC away from the VFD, etc. with no different results.
THEN, strictly to try something new I hooked the bot up to my old Macbook and VIOLA, all the problems I was having vanished and the bot was running better than ever.

Now this is where my confusion and plea for help comes in.
I do not understand how a Macbook from around 2008 can provide better performance than a brand new HP desktop with higher specs?

At this point I am willing to shell out the money to either buy or build a computer than is more than capable of running the bot. I have been leaning more towards the direction of having a friend build me a PC specifically designed to run the bot.

So I ask all of you what are the ideal specs for a shopbot specific computer?
I would like to put comm issues and low speed tests behind me as all of these problems are crippling my current workflow.

I apologize for the long winded post but any advice or recommendations are greatly appreciated!!

[COBOB]

Check this thread;
http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13340&page=3

Chances are the computer is just fine if you follow the Black Viper instructions and turn off all the unneccessary services.

Lots of good information in that thread. You are far from the first to have this experience.

[srwtlc]

Before going the new computer build route (which is a good thing), I'd give the input filter that Frank mentioned a try. It solved some problems I was having some time ago that although while SB3 worked fine when the spindle was turned on, other things weren't. You could very well be getting hit with some RFI problems once the spindle is turned on.

Check this thread....

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12732

[DanThomson]

Thanks for the info guys.

Robert-I actually had the HP computer setup to the Black Viper recommended settings when all of these problems arose.

Scott-The reason I a hesitant about the input filter is that I don't understand why/how RFI problems would just suddenly start after having the spindle running normally for about a month. Also if its was RFI problems how would simply switching to a Macbook solve the problem?

At this point I am just looking for what type of specs to follow for building or buying a PC that will be plenty capable of running the bot at optimal performance.

Can anyone recommend a PC setup that they are using that is working great for them?

[adrianm]

For what it's worth I ran my 'bot on a 1ghz celeron with 512mb of memory without any problems for months until I wanted to run complex 3D stuff which taxed the memory a bit.

I upgraded to Dell 745 with 2gb memory and a 1.8ghz dual core processor. Never had any problem with that one either and it runs large files without any issues.

Both run XP SP2 with only simple optimization such as no screen saver, no virus checker and no disk indexing.

[tlempicke]

Went to Sams and bought an ACER - just about the cheapest computer they had. Took it home and put the Shopbot software on it. Since I don't need it for anything else that is all it has on it. Ran perfectly from day one and still does.

That Dilbert cartoon -- he works for HP. Those guys can't write software for a consumer on a bet.

[srwtlc]

Dan,


this worked pretty well until I upgraded my machine to a 2.2hp 220v Single Phase SpindleThat's what made me think so. Sounded as if it started with the spindle upgrade. Also, a change of computer....there could be something about the motherboard or USB subsystem that is picking up some RFI noise that the Mac doesn't. Never know on that one until you try it. When you say that you can air cut without problems, that's another clue to the spindle and RFI. As stated in that other thread, my DSL was knocked out every time the spindle came on.

As far as building your own, you can't do much better (quality and bang for your buck) than NewEgg.com for an AMD Phenom II processor and Asus motherboard combo and ram prices are real low. I saw 8gb ram for $40 the other day.

[gerryv]

Dan,

The logic of your analysis seems sound and raises a few questions that deserve an objective approach just in case there is something else at play here besides (1) grounding (2) filters (3) grounding (4) weak USB (5) grounding (6) shielding/radio interference (7) grounding (8)more memory, or (9) something about Windows, Windows, Windows ... but still no clear silver bullet. Not easy to pin down :eek:

You may be onto something very helpful here that most of the folks experiencing this problem are not in a position to test, which is the fact that you're using a Mac running some version of Windows, I'm assuming through Bootcamp, Parallels or VMWare Fusion.

In asking "what's different here," a few questions come to mind such as;
1. Is the data stream coming from this setup via USB to the controller stronger?
2. Is it running at a higher pulse rate?
3. Is it more stable?
4. If yes, why? Perhaps one or some of the things that windows goes checking on or defers to is/are not passed along through Bootcamp et. al.?
5. Does the Mac simply have better shielding than other machines - not that we should have to worry about that.
6. Some other difference or combination of differences?
7. Relating those differences to when the problem begins and ends

(Yeah, I admit to having taken Kepner-Tregoe problem solving training) ;)

I'm intrigued by the fact that your setup eliminates this persistent problem even though it's not a processor or memory powerhouse and that there is a uniqueness about that setup that can be compared to what is much more the norm; that being a PC running some versions of Windows native.

I wonder if there is any such device(s) or test sets that can accurately analyze the speed, consistency and strength of the data stream coming out of setups like yours over time such that the information could then be compared to some number of systems that experience this problem? Analytically, that would be interesting to see.

Edit. The points Scott just posted are very helpful as well going down this road

[DanThomson]

Thank you everyone for your input thus far.

So this evening I had some free time to try some troubleshooting and now I feel as though I am back to square one.
I started by hooking the bot back up to the problematic HP slimline PC, I attempted to air cut files as well as jog the machine in keypad mode with the spindle on and as expected the control software would freeze and crash.
So just for fun I decided to uninstall the shopbot software and re install.
After that I restarted both the PC and bot and what do you know I am able to jog in keypad mode with the spindle on.

So now I am thinking that the problem has been solved but as a more thorough test I decide to put everything back the way I had it yesterday when this spindle problem arose. I hooked everything up exactly the same and even moved the PC tower back to where it was yesterday.
Now to test this setup I decided to try to run an air cut (with spindle on)of one of the part files that I was unable to run yesterday.
I loaded it up and the file begin to cut no problem, the file was about an hour long cut so I decided I would allow it to run the entire file as an air cut, it ran fine until at 36% the bot stopped and the screen displayed a comm error.

At this point I am feeling like I have no idea what the cause of these problems are or how to begin to remove variables from the equation in order to hone in on the problem.

My main concern right now is to determine if the HP Slimline PC is up to the task of running the bot as I am nearing the deadline of not being able to return it to Best Buy.
Is it worth picking up a PCI Express USB 2.0 card to try to improve my USB connection?

I have been thinking of just returning the HP Slimline and picking up a more powerful full size desktop tower that is borderline overkill just to be able to rule out the computer as a variable. Is there anything specifically I can look for in order to guarantee a good strong USB 2.0 connection?

Would something like this be plenty powerful enough to definitely run my bot?
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Gateway+-+Desktop+/+Intel%26%23174%3B+Core%26%23153%3B+i3+Processor+/+6GB+Memory+/+1TB+Hard+Drive/2632034.p?id=1218341069310&skuId=2632034#tabbed-customerreviews

Again, any advice or tips are greatly appreciated!

[danhamm]

I just went through something quite similar to what you describe, Gerry...
and the end result was that changing usb keyboard and mouse solved it.

It would either lock up or shut down.. the computer is and dual core AMD asus motherboard I built ages ago, has ps2 inputs for keyboard which I am now using..

[CNYDWW]

Take a look at Gary Campbell's black box control computer.

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13482

I've talked with Gary about building my own and if you ask nice he'll build you one.

Regards
Randy

[feinddj]

Are you running the bot on the usb without a hub? I had comm problems that were solved once I got the hub in line.

The other problem I had was insufficient grounding on my dust collector. I switched to a Kent Dust shoe and started having issues. Turned out that I needed to ground the hose near the spindle or the static caused rfi issues. I added a bare copper wire to the outside of the hose and no more issues.

D

[fsrdoug]

Dan
Before you spend any money go into Windows 7 and change the compatibility mode for SB to XP Service Pack 2. Worked for others and worked for me when nothing else would.
Doug Dodd
FSR Custom WoodWorks