New Shopbot User-Questions

[sebago_signworks]

Hello all. I purchased my ShopBot 3/4 years ago for my shop. I also have Artcamm pro. After all this time I have decided to get it going. I have a local guy who knows CNC and how to set files up. I am really looking forward to getting it online. I have a 48x96 w/ a spindle. I do not have a vacuum table, but I do plan on making one as soon an I get the basic's down. I have a few questions related to the CNC.

1) Best way to hold down sub-straights, especially if its a double sided sign

2) I want to start w/ V-Grove as its easy. When CNC'ing a V-Groove sign, I was thinking that I should paint the HDU first, then Premask, Router, Paint? Any opinions?

3) I charge $125 sqft for V Grove signs, what should I charge for "3-D" signs similar to the Child Care sign that is posted in the forum?

4) Do any of you market the ShopBot outside the sign business for extra revenue?

I have many more questions, this is a good start. Thanks in advance - Devin

[bleeth]

Devin:

I suggest that you spend some hours going through the various thread topics that already address the questions that you ask. That will give you much information to go on and allow you to move forward to more specific questions whose answers will help you finalize your next direction.

[sebago_signworks]

Dave,

I have used the "Search" tool in this forum. I am struggling finding information on pricing & Extra revenue for sign shops. There is a wealth of information here, its very impressive. However digging through it can be a challenge. Always looking for fresh advice.

[bleeth]

Pricing is a discussion that gets hit and miss results on this forum. I just brought it up a few days ago in the sign section for a job I proposed and got a little feedback but not a lot. My feeling is that pricing is very variable by maker as well as region and many consider their guidelines to be proprietorial.
On the project I am working on I am underpricing it a bit but I have my own reasons for doing so as discussed in the thread.

Two sided or not vacuum can work as long as the outer edge is not lower than other elements of the sign and there isn't a large area removed. Something like v carved letters, for example, should be fine. That being said, due to the long machining times and/or the sound factor of many signs quite a few guys prefer clamping methods.

Note that my primary use of CNC is cabinet parts and signage is something I do very little of and on the side. Most of what I know I learned from this forum.

[myxpykalix]

1) Best way to hold down sub-straights, especially if its a double sided sign

if it was me i would have a mechanical clamp down method that you can register your parts so that when you turn it over it is EXACTLY in the same position as the front face.

I made a jig out of flat piece of 4'X4' piece of mdf and attached a strip of mdf in the corners to make a 90 degree corner. I line that up with the 0,0 Lower left corner of the table and butt my material into the 90 degree corner and screw holder pieces to hold it in place (see pic)

2) I want to start w/ V-Grove as its easy. When CNC'ing a V-Groove sign, I was thinking that I should paint the HDU first, then Premask, Router, Paint? Any opinions?

3) I charge $125 sqft for V Grove signs, what should I charge for "3-D" signs similar to the Child Care sign that is posted in the forum?

The problem you face is that your vcarving whether by shopbot or by hand router by the guy down the street isn't any different for the most part. What sets you apart is your ability to do the 3d carving. The problem is, is that it takes longer to make the 3d carving. The issue is lets say you have a square foot 3d carved emblem in the center of your sign. That element might take you 6-8 hours to carve.

for example a 4'x4' double sided sign at 125./sq ft nets you $2000.00
lets say you spend 8 hours on a 3d element per side x2=16 hours of 3d carving
lets say you spend 2 hours per side vcarving=4 hours total 20 hours
$2000.00 divided by 20hours=$100.00/hr

So i think its reasonable to charge 100.00-125.00/sq ft for 3d carving since you are *overcharging for the vcarving and *undercharging for the 3d carving.
(* overcharging is not the right word but i couldn't pull the right word out of my head )

4) Do any of you market the ShopBot outside the sign business for extra revenue?

I think probably a vast majority who started out buying the bot with intentions of doing one particular thing, once people found out you have a cnc ask for things to be made that you never thought you would be doing.
I have been asked to make molds for solar hot water heating systems, 3d columns and beds and many things i would have never thought of.
The dumbest thing you could do is limit yourself on what you will do.

I have many more questions, this is a good start. Thanks in advance - Devin[/QUOTE]

[sebago_signworks]

Jack,

Thanks so much for the advice, and the detail. All good stuff. Thanks for taking the time.

-Devin

[beacon14]

"The dumbest thing you could do is limit yourself on what you will do."

Well, to a point yes, but I find that most people who are successful with CNC have found a niche and gotten really good at it. When I first started out on the SB I told people I could make guitar bodies, signs, cabinets, whatever. Made about $1/hour on my first couple of signs and realized that since I'm not a signmaker, I was a little lost when it came to designs, materials, and finishing techniques. The guitar bodies were kind of fun but took too long and distracted me from my core business.

Yes it's fun and interesting to stretch your boundaries once in a while, but the real benefit of CNC is efficiency. You can't be efficient if you are doing something completely different every week. Especially when starting out, I suggest concentrating on what you love to do, want to do, and can do (hopefully they are all the same!) and get really good at it.

Then once you are comfortable with your production techniques you can branch out if the opportunity arises, as long as it doesn't take away from the day-to-day business of making stuff and making money with the CNC.

[myxpykalix]

The dumbest thing you could do is limit yourself on what you will do."

David,
I was speaking figuritively, not literally!...(or is it the other way around?) LOL:D

You are absolutely correct in that if you want to make a business of carving lithopanes for $50.00 you will go broke soon. My point was that even on some jobs that come your way that might not fit his pricing structure by doing them he will gain experience that he might be able to apply to other projects.

After all how many of us have taken jobs that we "thought" was going to be a quick buck only to have to work through problems we encountered? It turned into a learning experience.:D

"Your journey begins with the first step young Grasshopper....":rolleyes:

[beacon14]

You are absolutely correct that once you own a ShopBot you will find yourself using it to do things you never dreamed were even possible before you had one. I just wanted to point out that too many "learning experiences" and not enough "earning experiences" will take a lot of the fun out of it.

Of course if you aren't trying to use your 'Bot to pay the bills, well, never mind. Have a blast.

[myxpykalix]

I just wanted to point out that too many "learning experiences" and not enough "earning experiences" will take a lot of the fun out of it.

true dat....:p

[sebago_signworks]

Great Stuff, thanks. I have a project for my sons Cub Scouts. We are creating a tree topper for the local tree lighting using the cub scouts. Good first project. thanks for all of the advice.