Ripping/Jointing Long Planks

[gerryv]

A Hypothetical Question:

In the absence of options like an 8'+ slider, a panel saw or a Festool (or equivalent) track saw, is it practical to use the Shopbot for ripping and/or jointing the edges of hardwood planks.

If no, I'm wondering why?

If yes, my questions would be what are the longest, available "stock" cutters?
- I'm assuming that the jointing operation will require a single, full depth final pass. This also assumes that I'm willing to put up with quite a lot more material loss due to the much wider kerf I'm likely to get than I would ripping with a narrow kerf Forrest blade.

Finally, it's assumed that this would not be anything approaching high volumes - say less than 50 planks a month, but it does require that the jointing quality would come close to matching a convention jointers output - maybe with a touchup stroke or two from a hand plane.

[beacon14]

Personally I think you would be better off with a small jointer, but in the absence of anything better I guess it could be done. Hold down is going to be an issue, if you distort the plank at all whilst holding it down, it will revert to its relaxed shaped when released.

[knight_toolworks]

You don't really want to use a thin kerf blade unless you don't have the horsepower for a regular blade. they tend to flex.
you can joint boards though it is not fast. I just did some for my last sign as they would just too big for my 6" joiner I jsut screwed on each end and did a climb cut manually.

[kevin]

When I first started I used a router with an offset I had little money it works really well

In theory a cnc with http://www.beso.com/toggle-clamp/search?rf=bbq
would work the trick would be the right bit

[bleeth]

Onsrud Chipbreakers would be a good match for jointing if you had to.
http://www.onsrud.com/xlink/xlProductDetail&xlProductDetail_xcrit1=60-307

If I needed to joint 50 boards a month I wouldn't think twice about getting a decent middle of the road tool like a DJ-20.
The length limit for jointing on the bot is a real factor since so many times the quality of lumber is better available in longer boards.
When without a jointer I have made up a long board cradle using the holddown clamps Kevin pointed out and straightlined them on my table saw. In theory you could do this on the bot as well.

[michael_schwartz]

I wouldn't sell my jointer. I just walk over, turn it on, and use it. It also does a perfect job every time with no setup, programming, fixtures, or a need for hold down. Trying to flatten out a board on the shopbot is also time consuming. I have a 30 year old powermatic 60 8" jointer I bought used. I added a Byrd Shelix cutterhead so I haven't even had to mess with knives for 2 years.

I do use the Shopbot to cut out solid wood parts that are curved, have complicated angles, or have had other milling done to them. Otherwise my table saw still reigns supreme for ripping. My bandsaw however goes unused for weeks at a time now.

[bob_s]

I have used a 48x96 bot for surfacing and joining 8' long boards with good success. I agree it isn't fast, but if you shim the board before you surface it, then joint it with a surfaced side down it works very well. It also works very well for boards that would be hard to handle on a small or mid sized joiner or a table saw. I have done a few that were over 200 lbs with out help and a semi bad back.
I use 3/4 baltic birch spring board type clamps and cams, my vacuum won't work for this type of process.

[fozzyber]

I know you are trying to do this on a bot, and it can be done,
it is just not the best tool for the job,
Just like rowing a bout with a 2x4, it can be done......

I have the festtool saw with a 9 ft rail and a 4ft rail and I just can not say enough about this tool, I love it.

[gerryv]

Thanks all for the very inciteful comments pro and con.

Here's why I asked this hypothetical question.A small group of us were discussing the state of the economy (leaving politics out of it) and the question came up, "If things collapsed forcing us into a tiny shop and we absolutely only had room for either our Felder 741SPro* or our 4'x8 Alpha, our two core machines, which would we give up? That raised the question about flexibility rather than volume being king. Not being a cabinet shop it makes for an interesting question.

*European combination machine with 8' slider, 12" table saw, 16" jointer, 16" planer, 9" tilting arbor shaper/router and morticer. (Please don't compare to a Shopsmith) ;)

[gc3]

Thanks all for the very inciteful comments pro and con.

Here's why I asked this hypothetical question.A small group of us were discussing the state of the economy (leaving politics out of it) and the question came up, "If things collapsed forcing us into a tiny shop and we absolutely only had room for either our Felder 741SPro* or our 4'x8 Alpha, our two core machines, which would we give up? That raised the question about flexibility rather than volume being king. Not being a cabinet shop it makes for an interesting question.

*European combination machine with 8' slider, 12" table saw, 16" jointer, 16" planer, 9" tilting arbor shaper/router and morticer. (Please don't compare to a Shopsmith) ;)


what?????

only room for the combo or the bot???

bot out does the over priced combo 10/1

kinda a lazy way to put the real question on the "table"

[danhamm]

Hey, guess I'm mixed up...I have a jointer..8x36..and a planer..small..sold the biggy..cause I turn the lam wood on edge and plane with the Hippo, my cnc.. just put lots in there and use the short lam clamps..and table planer, does a very good job, and quick..so......

[michael_schwartz]

Well in that case I would ditch the Felder hands down, and keep the Bot. I would want also want a hybrid/contractor saw, bench top thickness planer, miter saw, and router table at the very least. Add to that a couple of handheld routers, cordless drill, compressor, pin/brad nailers, and some festool stuff and you would be able to do quite a bit.

I have had a chance to work with Felder. For ripping I think a well tuned western style saw is just as good. Once you have cross cut with a slider well nothing is quite the same. My plywood sled is just as accurate when I want it to be but it is nowhere near as elegant. I cut most of my sheet goods on the bot. One of these days when I get the space I want a used SCMI Slider or something similar.

[bleeth]

If things collapsed that bad you are out of luck with any of the tools unless you are creating electricity with wind, sun, water, or geothermal!!

[fozzyber]

I was thinking the same thing, if it gets that bad better start watching the Wood Write shop.....Plane, Hand saw, and ax.



If things collapsed that bad you are out of luck with any of the tools unless you are creating electricity with wind, sun, water, or geothermal!!

[dan_nelson]

ripping on a bot no, jointing maybe, straight line ripping now that is a time saver that we use alot. we dont always get s4s delivered to the shop so rough sawn sometimes is the only choice. we used to snap a line cut with a skil saw and then joint. what a pain trying to joint a 10ft piece always a little off. now we write our straight line rip programs in half inch incriments and let her go.fly cutting does work for surfacing one side also and then off to the planer. the bot is just another tool in the box. Dan and Bridget Nelson

[gc3]

you can't do carvings on a jointer.....why do you want to use a cnc to do a jointers work?

traditional tools do have their place in a shop with a cnc router

[gerryv]

Don't actually want to Gene :-) But...

It's more a hypothetical question based on IF I was forced to only keep one of the two key machines, which would it be.

Sure I could go to some "little" portable jointers, planers, contractor saws to save a bit of room but, in a sense I'm trying to see just how flexible the 'bot can actually be when push comes to shove and everything else in the shop is gone to pay for the kraft dinner. (I'm lucky enough to not be there yet!)

Thinking outside the box...? What's actually possible using a variety of bits, fences, jigs, riser blocks, etc??? I'm assuming that some fine-tuning with, hand planes, sandpaper etc. is not much of an inconvenience as it's done anyway - even with the Felder's level of output.

The economy doesn't look at all promising for some so it struck me that this question that we were kicking around just might be of interest to others as well - plus I/we get to learn what's possible and what's maybe not as well.:)

[michael_schwartz]

If S*it really hit the fan that bad you might as well just stick with hand tools. No electricity required and you could carry them with you. Just imagine hiking into a remote wooded area with a couple of saws, an axe, and a hammer and building a house. Spend the summer and fall hunting, and chopping firewood and build furniture when your cooped up all winter. I guess back then a couple of planes, a few good saws, and set of chisels would have cost as much or more than a shopbot does today :eek:

I live in a house that was originally built with not much more than a hammer and a saw with no electricity. Every time I go to do a project I have to wonder if they even had a level because the floor and ceiling will be an inch or so out of whack. No codes, engineers, or hot dipped galvanized structural connectors, but it is still standing today.