adding routing bits

[Greenie]

I have the starter kit of cutters, however I would like to add round nose bits - a .3750 for example. Up until now I've been amending the tool information of the supplied round nose 1/8" to .3750. I'm hoping that by adding information about the .3750 performance might be improved.
The Vectric custom form tool creation (the ten step process) seems to be very complex and problematic for what should be a simple addition of a .3750 round nose. Is there an easier way, or should I just keep amending the 1/8" round bit information that came with the machine?

[tmerrill]

Bill,

When you open the Tool Database you will see a button labeled New. Click that and then select the type of tool you want to create in the drop down menu. Fill in the data and you are good to go.

The Help Contents contains more detail with diagrams if you need it.

The option to create a Form Tool is for situations when you need a tool profile that isn't included in the standard ones. For example, an ogee edge tool.

Tim

[curtiss]

If you are creating a new tool similar to another, you can make a "copy" of that tool and then edit it as needed and re-title the tool

[Greenie]

Thanks for the help. I am trying to produce routed state park signs on 1 1/2" white pine. The lettering is 2" high and about 3/8" wide with rounded sides. Getting that appearance from PDF (originally from CAD files) has been tough. Small rounded bits carve steep walled channels, 3/8" round nose should work but the Partworks program usually just gives me a few dots and dashes.
Yesterday I tried creating a round nose .3750 bit (which was in the spindle) added that as a new tool, then set the cutting depth to .003, then lowered the bit .10, changed the bit diameter to .75.
By doing all these adjustments and frigging with settings the appearance of the shopbot created sign is acceptable.
There's got to be an easier way to make relatively simple signs on a $22,000 machine.

[tmerrill]

We can help you. It sounds more like an issue with the design file you are working from, not a Partworks or ShopBot issue.

Can you post one of the PDF files and the Partworks file (.crv) so we can see exactly what you are working with. Without that, it is pretty much a guessing game on our part.

Tim

[CNYDWW]

I think what you're looking for is Single Line Text. If you're importing text from a pdf. it may come in as an actual font. If the bit wont fit inside the lines of the font it won't mill it. Check your font tool in partworks. There are two options, one for true type and another for Single Line Text. Choose the single line option and create a sample. Play with the different fonts till you come up with one that matches the original best. Once you get the font. Use the 3/8" ball nose along with a profile cut and choose to profile on center. This will make the bit follow right on top of the line at the depth you specify. All of the state signs we have up here are simple, straight block lettering. Nothing fancy.

Best of Luck
Randy

[Greenie]

I don't think that I have the ability to alter the font( single line) ; I work from PDF, which seems sort of like a black and white photo of the sign. Most of the files are the correct size (if a sign is 24" by 36" the imported PDF will fill the area) but some need to be enlarged to fill the blank on PartWorks.
I'm away from work (and the files) but I will send a file as soon as I can next week.
I really appreciate the offers of help!!!!

[CNYDWW]

Another thing you can do in the mean time is take a look at the vcarve tutorials here http://www.vectric.com/WebSite/Vectric/support/aspire3_vcp6/aspire3_vcp6_tutorials_tut_design.html

Vcarve Pro and partworks are the same program.

Regards
Randy

[Greenie]

I can't attach the CRV file, I get this: 213-1.crv: Invalid File
CRV files it appears can't be uploaded.
The PDF I was working from is too big to upload, I get this message: 213 Trees, Shrubs etc.pdf:
Your file of 47.8 KB bytes exceeds the forum's limit of 19.5 KB for this filetype.

Any other ideas?

[Greenie]

Here's a smaller sign PDF...

[Greenie]

Here's the sbp file for the sign if it helps...

[Greenie]

????????????????

[ssflyer]

If possible, zip the crv file and upload.

[bleeth]

The PDF is not a single line text. Obviously no ball nose will create square corners so I assume the corners being radiused 1/2 the diameter of the bit is not your concern. Your "THIS" SBP file looks like the lines of the letters were cut on the vectors but you seemed to have 2 passes and the font is quite different than the one in the PDF.
I have attached a quick "Mens" in Franklin Gothic Medium (similar to your PDF done 2 ways.) 1 is cut along vectors with a 3/8 ball nose and the other is v-carved with a 120 degree bit. As we have all learned the easy part is turning on the machine, the hard part is learning how to program it.
If either of these resembles what you are after let us know and you will get more help but at the moment your its a little tough (at least for me) to know what your are trying for as an end result.

[Greenie]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-i8qwvCuPkl0/TvMYiN8Q-5E/AAAAAAAAACk/UcIl5LnGkp0/s144-c/December222011.jpg

The second image you offered is closer to what I'm trying to replicate except the letters would be U shaped rather than V shaped. For years we've hand routed with round nose bits and I'd like to create signs with lettering that matches what is already in use.
Hopefully the photo I've added shows the appearance I'm after. The letter is 2" high and approximately 3/8" wide.

[tmerrill]

Bill,

I just reread your posts and in your post #7 you say the font can't be changed. If this is really the case, you are going to be limited and won't be able to copy the results from using a hand held router. In the picture below the top line is your font from the .pdf you posted and I could get close using a pocket toolpath with a 0.375" ball nose with cut depth set to 0.1". The sides have a radius but the cut does flatten out at the bottom. You can play with different cut depths and preview it, but the distance between the lines is not consistent, so neither will your results be.

Recently in another forum it was mentioned that Corel Draw X4 and newer has the ability to find center lines. I don't have CD X4 so can't test, but this may be an option where you would open the PDF in CD X4, find the center lines, then export to V-Carve Pro and use a ball nose bit with the Profile-On toolpath to get exactly what you are looking for.

The bottom line in the below picture is using a Single Line font that is supplied with VCP and a Profile-On toolpath with a 0.375" ball nose with cut depth set to 0.1875". You end up with the same radiused cut you would get with a hand held router, but as you can see the font shape will be different than the PDF.

Tim

Added: Found many links but this one looks like a good short description with examples:
http://www.engrave.ca/archives/452

[bleeth]

Here is a shot using the same Franklin Medium Font, a 3/8" ball nose bit, a depth of cut of 3/16", a stepover of 10% of the bit and a toolpath strategy of area clear (as in pocket) done in offset direction. You just have to make sure that the size of the legs is at least a little wider then your bit.

[Greenie]

Thanks, Tim & Dave. I have a couple of choices to try now. The Corel Draw X4 (or later) might make it a lot easier with center lines.
I can get pretty good results by altering the bit size and lowering the tool in the chuck (fooling the program) but results aren't predictable and I end up wasting sign stock. Thankfully, the white pine sign stock is cut, sawed, and processed by us so the cost for all my mistakes isn't as high as it could be if I was using more expensive sign stock.
Thanks for your help, Merry Christmas!

[bleeth]

If you wish to cut deeper then you have programmed then with z room under the bit (like right off the end of the table or off the workpiece if you zero to the top you can move the router down below zero where you want (AS in MZ -.25) and then hit the z key twice )Zero Z). This will give you your new zero height at a controllable number.
Getting used to using a cnc means learning to think differently from using hand tools. What you are actually trying to do doesn't require "fooling" the machine but does require learning the software more fully. Lots of guys use their Bot to make signs just like you are trying to do with repeatable results every day.
And Merry Christmas to you and the rest of our community as well.

[MogulTx]

I have used Dave's technique many times to deepen a cut that was close - but not quite deep enough.

Just be sure of ONE THING: Make sure the "safe Z" height will then clear your stock, or you are gonna route a great big ol line through it!!! The safe Z on my machine was set at about .23".... not very much room if the stock has an irregular surface or if you fiddle around with the Z Zero setting.

(yes. I know this from personal experience).

Merry Christmas! Happy Boxing Day!

Monty

[Greenie]

What you are actually trying to do doesn't require "fooling" the machine but does require learning the software more fully. Lots of guys use their Bot to make signs just like you are trying to do with repeatable results every day.


I just ruined a sign I was trying to make from a PDF. Two weeks ago I did get good results with Part Works set to an imaginary 3/4" round nose set .001, today with the identical same settings I got wide, ugly letters. It's just too hit or miss for me.
I can make great signs from scratch, but the PDF just doesn't work reliably. You say lots of guys use PDF files to replicate signs, I'd like to meet one and see what the secret is.
Anyhow, there is a problem with PDF and it's not me not knowing the program. I purchased a Corel Draw X4 today, maybe using a center line rather than trying to rout between lines is the answer.

[adrianm]

There's PDF and then there is PDF.....

I get PDF's as the source for customer supplied artwork but it's usually in vector format. Sometimes people send me PDF's of bitmaps which aren't much use for anything unless you want to spend a lot of time tracing and cleaning up.

People often assume (wrongly) that creating a PDF automatically converts their artwork to a vector format.

[bleeth]

Wherever the lines you import come from you need to check them out very closely in PW. Adrian is very correct. All PDF's are not created equal. I have seen some that when imported are perfect as is and others that could only be used for tracing.

[Greenie]

Wherever the lines you import come from you need to check them out very closely in PW. Adrian is very correct. All PDF's are not created equal. I have seen some that when imported are perfect as is and others that could only be used for tracing.

When imported to PW the lines for letters look OK, usually no missing vectors, tool paths look OK, the preview look great and then the final result does not. What am I looking for when I check them?
Symbols, that's an entirely different story. The wheelchair and hikers symbols imported from PDF either rout just a little or take out the wrong material... but that's obvious before I even attempt to start with the Shopbot. I always wind up importing those symbols from the internet, then they come out looking great. Letters and words, when imported from PDF look great until the bit spins... It's like Las Vegas (gambling & losing)

[bleeth]

I just went back through this thread and looked at the SBP file you posted earlier. The deepest z is only .03. Something is definitely not set right in your programming in PW as I assume you wanted to cut deeper than that.
If you wish to e-mail me the pdf that that was based on and the type and size tool you used for toolpathing I'll put it through my software and see what I can see.
e-mail me by left-clicking on my name and selecting "send e-mail"

[Big-Tex]

To simulate had router 3/8 ball end. Use single line font use profile cut on line desired depth.

[Greenie]

The single line fonts that came with Partworks 3.0 don't match the signs we have in the field. I talked to Chris at Shopbot and he suggested buying a single line font. That's my next thing to try. Coreldraw X4 didn't find center lines in the pdf.. at least I wasn't able to do it.

[joe]

Gees guys.

Joe Crumley

[Greenie]

Is that your way of being helpful, Joe?

[bleeth]

I sure can't speak for Joe but based on the 3 pages of this thread at this point I can make the following statements on my behalf.
1. Although you have referred to matching a sign you do by hand there is still no picture (s) of one to see what you are talking about.
2. For your "hand route" you haven't said whether you were free handing it, using a template, or a pantograph.
3. There are a multitude of single line fonts out there and not happening to have one that matches what you want from the fairly limited number that come on a computer or with packaged software is not surprising.
4. Between what has been posted by others previously and the advice you got from Chris I don't know what else can be said except:
5. A CNC is not the same as hand carving. There was a guy in the northwest who was roughing out parts for an Indian tribe to finish by hand so they could sell them as hand-carved. The many things you can do with a cnc can take your hand routing to a whole new level not obtainable by hand. Take a look at what Eric does and you have a perfect example of beautiful rustic work that is heck by hand or hand router and sells like hotcakes. http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11993

After all, why would I use a calculator to add 2 plus 2?

Not trying to flame you here-just pointing out some of the realities and possibilities with your machine.

[Greenie]

I came here looking for help - I am surprised by the attitudes. If this is a forum for showcasing your work and not for helping those starting out there ought to be a disclaimer warning newcomers to go elsewhere.

[bleeth]

Sorry you take it as an attitude. As stated below my intention is not to flame. When only partial information is given by a person asking questions those trying to help are not showing an attitude by asking for more complete information.
If you are looking for an excuse to blame the community it is pointless. If you are sincerely seeking help then read back through the thread and answer the questions asked by several with the experience to help. Forget your ego. We don't care about it. We will help if you will listen. We have all been frustrated by learning what was at one time a brand new thing that we never anticipated getting into. Over time we learned from the patient help of others and try to pass it along in our spare time while we work to earn a living. The main lesson is you can never give too much information when asking for help and when it is given you need to respond to the information.
Please try to reread my last post and if you don't understand respond specifically to the points you don't understand. I and possibly others will respond to that. Otherwise I wish you well but will not respond further.

[joe]

Bill,

This forum is known for it's generous support. I've been participating for years and you are the first complaint I've seen. Dave R. even offered to run your file on his system for you. Tim and others have tried to figure out the problem. Thanks fellow.

Most of us don't run PDF's because they can come in several forms. Chris, from SB, gave you good advice, which was buy the proper single line font.

Who knows what you're trying to duplicate. Why didn't you post a photo of your previous signs so we had a clue. Do you know how to post photo's? Probably not. Insulting the Sb'ers or running down the equipment won't work in your favor.

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com

[steve_g]

Dear ..........................

Credibility doesn't come free. Neither does experience. I'm afraid that your understanding of the problem was a lot shallower than anyone realized, since you were given good and accurate information early on but were unable to recognize it. Lashing out at those trying to help has alienated myself and likely others. If you want help in the future, I suggest reregistering under a new name and attitude.

Steve

[Greenie]

To all,

I have no doubt that the Shopbot is a quality product. Everyone I've spoken to at Shopbot have been patient and helpful. I'm learning and am getting better at reproducing signs that have been hand routed for many years.
Hopefully I've expressed my thanks to those that offered suggestions. I've tried most suggestions with varying results.

[Nancy]

Thread closed -