Need to resume cut-file tomorrow: how to do it?

[dhunt]

After several tries using Search and terms like resuming cut file
-with zero luck!..
I feel the need to start a new thread to solve my problem!


I'm using SB software 3.4.27 on an 11 yr. old PRT-96.


Present cutting time elapsed on this file I'm now using is 2 hrs. and 40 mins.
but I need to leave work in less than that time, so it won't be finished by then!
It's cutting right now! -about 20 mins. into it..


How do I resume the .sbp cut-file after it's run itself about two-thirds of the way thru
and then start back at That Line Of Code, first thing tomorrow morning??

Can I resume?
.

[Brady Watson]

You can do one of the following in preferred order:

A) Hit the S-key to pause file. Leave control box and computer ON. Turn router, monitor OFF. Tomorrow, turn router on, and press R to resume cutting.

B) Hit the S-key to pause file. WRITE DOWN the line number where it stopped. Exit the file. Leave control box ON. Open file editor with FE command. Open the file you just ran and navigate to the line you stopped. ABOVE THAT LINE, you are going to enter 2 more lines:

1)MS,2,1 (or whatever your move speed should be for this file)
2)Select and Copy the line you stopped at, and change the Z value to your SafeZ height, let's say 1" - E.G.:

Line stopped ---> M3, 25.4625, 16.258, 0.87614
New line just above line stopped & below the MS,2,1 line: J3, 25.4625, 16.258, 1.00

Next WRITE DOWN the line that has the NEW MS command.

Then save the file, and use the FG command. Type in the line you just wrote down (the one with the MS command). Click on the Goto button. Make sure router is ON. Click on, Run from here.

---------------

I prefer the 1st option...but either will get you there. If you turn off the control box, you may lose XYZ position in relation to your file. Also, even with the control box on overnight, you may still have a transition line that goes across your entire relief where you started up the file again. The reason why this happens eluded me for a long time, but it can be chalked up to either material thermal shrinkage or material movement from stress relief as the material is machined away. Few realize just how much a part heats up, and if you stop the tool and let it sit, the material shrinks as it cools. Not much you can do about this....which is why for most projects I simply do not stop the machine.

-B

[dhunt]

Thanks for your input, but I thought there might have been something considerably simpler in the software itself!


Option A occurred to us, but we decided not to.

Option B remains an option, filed for possible future use.


Thanks again.
.

[garyc]

David...
What could be simpler than hitting [PAUSE], then [Resume]?

The only way to have a chance at returning to the exact same spot is to leave computer and machine running. Most important for the machine to be energized and holding its position and reporting any movement (or failure) to control software.

Monitors and peripherals not so important, but I have never made an effort to kill them. Unless there is an impending electrical storm, there is no real reason to turn off the control box or computer. Ever. We all do, but not because its needed.

[dhunt]

What could be simpler than hitting [PAUSE], then [Resume]?

The only way to have a chance at returning to the exact same spot is to leave computer and machine running.
Most important for the machine to be energized and holding its position and reporting any movement (or failure) to control software.

Monitors and peripherals not so important, but I have never made an effort to kill them.
Unless there is an impending electrical storm, there is no real reason to turn off the control box or computer. Ever.
We all do, but not because its needed.As it turns out, I left the boss in control for the last 20 mins. of the cut file, when I left work.
It finished without incident, I'm pleased to say.


But to address your thoughts re. simply leaving things turned ON until Resumption the next day,Gary
I quite agree -and it may come to that some days/nights over the next 2 wks. or so
while we cut this hard-as-nails Iroko/African Teak stuff! :eek:

Our 'problem' is that electricity costs on a small Caribbean island are ever-mounting
so we have got into the cost-saving habit of turning things off at 4:30 p.m.
and then firing things up again at 9 a.m. but bad habits are there to be broken, right? :D
-plus our ambient temperatures in a shut-up office are warmer than yours are


Speaking of killing motors..
Would it be possible to MO Motors Off overnight, with the cut-file paused like that?? :confused:
.

[srwtlc]

Dave,

If you do an MO, you risk having an axis bumped and loss of position as an MO will disengage the motors.

Note: While MO is still in the menu on the current software (twice actually!?), I believe it is now obsolete on current tools.

[dhunt]

If you do an MO, you risk having an axis bumped and loss of position as an MO will disengage the motors. ===> Hmmmmm.

Note: While MO is still in the menu on the current software (twice actually!?), I believe it is now obsolete on current tools.I'm glad it still works on our PRT-96 using SB 3.4.27 because I use it quite a bit, now I've become accustomed to it
and think I would miss it if we ever upgraded.


Why did they drop it? Maybe ShopBot thought it was un-necessary, given how bullet-proof the motors are?
.

[myxpykalix]

To add to Bradys tips, if you decide to use the second method, if you have a digital camera it might be a good idea to take a pic of where the carriage and router is relative to your piece so that you can manually move the router to the vicinity before you restart file as you stand the chance of ruining the piece if you restart it from the 0,0 position (don't recall if that was said:confused:)

[garyc]

David...
I am sure that you may have to balance the costs of few Kw of power to keep the machine positioned overnite against what you ruin the first time you try it.

My experience goes back to our shop in the FL Keys where summertime temps were over 90 in the shop in the AM before the sun got a chance to bake everything. In some cases had to keep fans on our Alpha box, door open to keep it from overheating.

The MO works on the old software, but will be no better than turning off the control box. Either way you lose position. The current drivers cannot have the power turned off to them.

[Brady Watson]

David...
I am sure that you may have to balance the costs of few Kw of power to keep the machine positioned overnite against what you ruin the first time you try it.


X2...

The cost of leaving before the job is done...
The cost of ruining the part because you turned it off...
The cost of electric because you left it on...

EVERYTHING has a cost.

Welcome to Earth, my friend! :D

-B

[letterman7]

Sounds like a nice, small Honda generator to keep power to the computers would be a worthwhile investment here. Even the 3000uI models have engines you can barely hear at 5'...

[bruce_taylor]

During long cuts in the summer afternoon thunderstorm season I start each sheet by plunging a reference cut at 0.0. location or any other place on the sheet that is not in the way. That way if I loose position or power I can go back to 0.0. to lines back up. This has saved me more than once with erratic electric. I've been able to get from almost perfect to perfect. Depending on what I'm cuttin. Simple enough?

[dhunt]

During long cuts in the summer afternoon thunderstorm season
I start each sheet by plunging a reference cut at 0.0. location or any other place on the sheet that is not in the way.
That way if I loose position or power I can go back to 0.0. to lines back up.
This has saved me more than once with erratic electric.
I've been able to get from almost perfect to perfect. Depending on what I'm cuttin. Simple enough?An excellent idea I need to get myself more into the habit of doing!

--------------------------

I'm pleased to report that Brady's simple Option A was the overnight solution!
Returned to work today after turning off the monitor last evening
to find things intact.
No charred embers, no smoke, no fire damage :D

Thanks for your help and all the suggestions!
.

[Brady Watson]

Glad it worked out.

Where are the pics??? :D

-B

[dhunt]

Where are the pics??? :DYou'll find a new album called Holey Door at
http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/album.php?albumid=55
with a modicum of explanation via captioning.


And there info about Iroko at Wikipedia here..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroko_%28hardwood%29
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[Brady Watson]

One nice thing about being in the islands is you guys have access to all that beautiful African wood we can't get anymore...

-B

[dhunt]

One nice thing about being in the islands is
you guys have access to all that beautiful African wood we can't get anymore...Some years ago one of our local wood suppliers had "White Mahogany"
-a Peruvian hardwood, probably not a true Mahogany at all.
We were getting thru a lot of that stuff for awhile there..

We did lotsa White Mahogany panelling for a large room in a millionaire's mansion
the artists came in and painted flowering vines and birds and butterflies
-and then the beetles broke out!
Seems they lay their eggs in/on the trees, and they stay there in the wood for years, before busting out when the time is right.
Mr.Millionaire was not pleased and all that lovely panelling had to be torn out!
Not sure what it was replaced with, but I doubt he went with White Mahogany again! :D


I cut some Poplar the other day
(no big deal to you guys but unusual to us down here). It cut like butter.

Purpleheart we get too (ex South America, not so far away from us).

We get Ash and Oak too. And Cedar.


Mahogany counts fer nothing down here, we have Mahogany growing wild all over the island.
I have a huge one right outside my back door!

We get Teak from nearby Trinidad, but also from Burma(very expensive,the latter)


Life generally is very different, down here in the tropics! ;)
.

[dhunt]

If any of you guys are on Facebook
and if you care to see what we do at Island Furniture..

please visit our Facebook page at
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Island-Furniture-Ltd/248019275218566?sk=wall
.

[steve_g]

like þ

Steve

[khaos]

David, I do enormous 3d files that take 20+ hours to run.

This is what I do. It seems to be a mix of what Brady and Bruce have offered up.

I always z-zero in a predetermined spot on the work which changes per piece. The other thing i do is I find a place on the work to make a shallow vertical cut with my 1/2 inch 4 flute. Then i have put a piece of masking tape on the router with the zzero and the x,y zero. This allows me to reset after a [pause] or a fail. I get the line number if possible and record it. Whenever I am ready to cut again I keyboard the cutter to max z then send the cutter to the pre-defined x,y zero location. Then I turn off the SB software and the control box. In that order. I lower the cutter into the shallow cut slowly by hand. I leave it in the hole, turn the control box back on then start the SB program. I move z above the work put my proper bit in zero at the predetermined location per my masking tape :). zero and then basically use Brady's option two and continue. The good news is that if you couldn't get the line number you can start the file all over again. I know it sucks but at board foot costs a few hours of air cuts are better than accepting the $$$ loss for the wood.

[dauntless]

Unless there is an impending electrical storm, there is no real reason to turn off the control box or computer. Ever. We all do, but not because its needed.
That's not really true, Gary. I use a higher end PC running XP Pro with 16 GB of RAM and a fast processor and large HD, and I still find that preplanned hard shutdowns preclude accumulated errors on long runs. Microsoft's operating systems are not designed to stay powered up indefinitely and benefit from periodic hard shutdowns (by "hard shutdown" I mean turn it completely off, wait a minute, then turn it back on...not just do a reboot).

Like Joe Johnston I also do long runs of 20-plus hours spread over several days. As noted in several posts above, the key to perfect multi-day runs is to maintain machine position. To do that I use the S-key to stop the 'bot, then quit, exit SB3 and shut down the computer. I leave the control box powered up. THIS IS THE KEY IN MY EXPERIENCE. I don't re-zero the 'bot, move it to 0,0, or anything else. The next morning I power up, warm up, and use FG to restart the run. It works perfectly for me.

During the day I also reboot the computer at lunch. To do that I follow the "overnight" routine I just described, only I restart the computer after turning the computer completely off for one minute. In years past losing position between reboots was an irritant that I had to deal with, but since settling on my current technique I have never been disappointed.

Oh...one more thing. I never zero off the work piece, since I often carve its entire upper surface. Instead, I always zero off the waste board at a position that I write in my log book for each piece. That way, no matter what happens I can run C3 to get a consistent 0,0, then go to the exact same X,Y time after time to z-zero after tool changes. Also, ditch the 0.121 aluminum z-zero tool...its CoTE is large enough to produce noticeable marks in the work piece after zeroing just a few hours apart (as the day heats up or cools off). Instead, use a .25 or even .5 or 1" steel z-zero tool...it is much more thermally stable.

[dauntless]

It seems that my previous post upset some folks enough to warrant sending a PM/email to take me to task, so I thought I'd address some of their concerns. First, my PC doesn't have 16 GB of RAM. While preparing my post I looked at its specs and thought it said the computer has four 4 GB DIMMS. I was incorrect: it "has four connectors for installing dual inline memory modules (DIMMs) that provide up to a maximum of 4.0 GB of system memory." My bad...sorry. My point was that my PC is not memory deficient, which could be an explanation for why it might need shutting down periodically. Thank you for catching my error.

Second, some of you think I was disrespectful and incorrect to differ with Gary's statement that we should not have to ever shut down our computer. Well, I don't know how I can disagree more tactfully than the way I put it ("That's not really true, Gary."), but I won't argue the point. Instead I'll just suggest you do a little digging over on Microsoft's support website (support.microsoft.com), where I found the following statement:


Performance, architectural limits, and RAM

On any computer system, as the load increases (the number of users, the volume of work), performance decreases, but in a nonlinear manner. Any increase in load or demand, beyond a certain point, causes a significant decrease in performance. This means that some resource is in critically short supply and has become a bottleneck.

At some point, the resource that is in short supply cannot be increased. This means that an architectural limit has been reached. Some frequently reported architectural limits in Windows include the following:

2 GB of shared virtual address space for the system (kernel)
2 GB of private virtual address space per process (user mode)
660 MB of system PTE storage (Windows Server 2003 and earlier)
470 MB of paged pool storage (Windows Server 2003 and earlier)
256 MB of nonpaged pool storage (Windows Server 2003 and earlier)

This applies to Windows Server 2003 specifically, but this may also apply to Windows XPI underlined the significant part...your computer's memory gradually fills up with retained information to the point where performance is significantly degraded. This fact is inherent in Microsoft operating systems and cannot be avoided. The practical solution is to periodically do a complete shutdown to ensure the memory bank has time to bleed down (in an electrical sense) before restarting with a full reservoir of memory. Merely clicking "restart" doesn't always bleed down memory completely, and so your computer can end up starting up with part of its RAM already full and not available, which kind of defeats the purpose.

Don't take my word for it. Don't take Gary's word for it. Take Microsoft's word for it...your computer needs to be shut down periodically to continue to function normally. Moreover, this is exactly what Shopbot's technical support personnel told me several years ago when I called asking about how large a program I can run on a computer with a fixed amount of memory. When I bought this computer it had 512 MB of RAM, and would lock up after several hours of cutting. I was routinely running toolpaths of hundreds of thousands of lines of code, and Shopbot's recommendation was to max out the RAM in my computer and to periodically do a shutdown and restart.

There were other points of disagreement, but this is enough for one night. As I noted in my post, which after all was intended to assist the OP asking for help, if you have to stop your computer leave the controller powered up and the tool in its paused position, do a hard restart when you're ready to work again and use FG to resume where you left off. This technique works very well for me, and I trust it will for you, too.

[myxpykalix]

I didn't read every word, just breezed thru so i don't know what was or wasn't said re:differing opinions, so i'm not taking sides but in my experience on my in home computer, i use it during the day then i just put it to sleep, wake it back up work, put it to sleep. It does use up memory and even after you close a task there is residual fragments taking up memory. If you have a boatload of memory it won't affect you but if you have a limited amount you will notice it.

Every 3-4 days i have to shut it down completely so that the memory dumps itself and things run faster and smoother.

[adrianm]

Stan, don't forget that the use most of us put our ShopBot PC's to is very different to anything most Windows users do.

Most 'botters run the control software and nothing else with the PC stripped right back.

Compare that to "normal" users who would be opening and closing several different programs and doing all sorts of varied operations every day.

Also you're misinterpreting what Microsoft are saying. They're not saying you need to do a hard restart to gain that memory back, merely reduce the number of users attached to it or the amount of work that pool of users is doing. Not to mention that the way a server operating system handles it resource pool is very different to a desktop one.

Most people who experience "ram drain" are running programs that have memory leaks and/or don't release memory problem when shut down.

Flash is one of the worst offenders for this which is why people who browse all the time have to shut their PC's down every few days to get the memory back. There are other ways of doing it but a shutdown is by far the easiest.

[chiloquinruss]

The issue is not your total memory or disk capacity, the issue is pesky little fragments of non-useable memory. The non-useable memory is not permanently non-useable just non-useable while the system is currently running. In example 1 all of the useable memory is packed in pretty good. In example 2 Program B has terminated and left a good size hole in the available memory, but the next program to run is Program E but it won’t fit in the space so it gets loaded up higher in memory, like example 3. This leaves a fragment of memory vacant. In example 4 the next program loads into the small fragment space but creates an even smaller fragment of unused space. Over a period of time the available memory gets eaten up with more and more of these little unused fragments. When you turn your machine off and then back on to restart the programs they get reloaded like example 1 and there are no fragments to start with. The longer the machine is on the more fragments will get created. This also happens on your disk drive and that is why you should frequently DEFRAG your disk drive, to use up all of the little fragments of empty space. Defrag of the disk drive is similar to turning your computer off and then back on. The defrag disk process is actually re-writing the data from front to back to use up all those spaces. I hope this makes since, thanks for listening. Russ

http://hobby-tronics.lenzus.com/content/21775739/r/s_17007165.jpg

[dauntless]

Stan, don't forget that the use most of us put our ShopBot PC's to is very different to anything most Windows users do.

Most 'botters run the control software and nothing else with the PC stripped right back.

Compare that to "normal" users who would be opening and closing several different programs and doing all sorts of varied operations every day.

Also you're misinterpreting what Microsoft are saying. They're not saying you need to do a hard restart to gain that memory back, merely reduce the number of users attached to it or the amount of work that pool of users is doing. Not to mention that the way a server operating system handles it resource pool is very different to a desktop one.

Most people who experience "ram drain" are running programs that have memory leaks and/or don't release memory problem when shut down.

Flash is one of the worst offenders for this which is why people who browse all the time have to shut their PC's down every few days to get the memory back. There are other ways of doing it but a shutdown is by far the easiest.

You're correct, Adrain. The Shopbot control software's load on the machine is very different to virtually any consumer software. I run a stripped down version of XP on my computer with no consumer software on it at all, except for Adobe Reader. No browser. No email client. No wordprocessor, spreadsheet, CAD/CAM...nothing. Not even a LAN or internet connection. (I have to "sneaker net" my toolpaths from another computer to it.) It's also true that server OS's are very different to consumer-grade OS's, even though they often will readily run the same programs. They have better memory management, among other things. XP, Vista and Win7 are designed with the consumer experience foremost in mind, while server OS's have different priorities. The bottom line for both is that they can use up their memory to the point that performance degrades, as articulated so clearly by Russ. For me the solution has been to periodically do a hard shutdown and restart. I always start each toolpath from a freshly booted computer, and do a pause and shutdown every 4 hours or so on long runs. This has saved me a lot of headaches and ruined pieces, and I trust it will work as well for anyone else who needs to leave a toolpath incomplete for whatever reason.

[dhunt]

I couldn't imagine running a Shopbot from anything other than a dedicated computer
standing in complete isolation from the internet and other browser/email/etc software!

So you have to sneaker-net the cut file from the design computer to the SB computer.
We do that via USBkey, but the untold hardship is worth the while. :D
It involves moving all of about four feet to the right of where we make the cut-files.


Our SB computer runs the pared-down Mini-XP used by developers
(ideal for running the SB.....no frills) and it has no other software
apart from CCleaner utility, Eusing Registry Cleaner and Perfect Disk v.11 for file management/defrag.
.

[dauntless]

So you have to sneaker-net the cut file from the design computer to the SB computer.
We do that via USBkey, but the untold hardship is worth the while. :D
It involves moving all of about four feet to the right of where we make the cut-files.


Our SB computer runs the pared-down Mini-XP used by developers
(ideal for running the SB.....no frills) and it has no other software
apart from CCleaner utility, Eusing Registry Cleaner and Perfect Disk v.11 for file management/defrag.
.

Yes, I operate by sneaker-net...only I have to walk about 30 feet! :) But my OS is not as early as yours. I use a Service Pack 1 XP Pro package from 2002 on my computer. It's incredibly stable given that I am not exposing it to the interwebs... ;)

[dhunt]

I had a similar situation where I again had to stop a long cut-file overnight.

I halted the operation at Line 7363 and turned everything off for the weekend, leaving the machine right where I halted it.
This was Friday at 5 p.m.

Came back Monday morning, after having re-read all of the above entries over the weekend and doing some thinking..
someone mentioned Command FG, and that 'rang a bell' vaguely.

So I came in this morning, fired the whole thing up again ..to find my X,Y and Z coordinates exactly where I left them on Friday p.m.
hit FG, identified the file I was cutting, followed my nose further, typed in Line 7363 and then Start from Here or whatever it was
-and I've just saved myself about 2+ hours of having to retrace Friday's cutting from 0.

Success!...feels good ;)
.