Can you compete with Chinese RTA cabinets

[bruce_taylor]

As I responded to another thread I wondered if you guys were able to compete with the Import RTA plywood cabinetry. I get a pretty good discount and can't hardly buy the doors and materials to build the cabinets for what I can buy them. I know I build a much higher quality cabinet but most people don't care about quality to the point that they care about price. So what is your take on this. I do mostly higher end custom stuff and am blessed with some longtime repeat clients that do appreciate the quality and skill I bring to the table, Still I wonder about the production side and would like to here more points of view.
Thanks

[kevin]

Thats the 50,000 dollar question

I.am shure your hit by low housing prices which effects your price

I know the fustration talking to clients who think they know but have no clue about quality also Contractors, designers are in the same boat

The problem with low end your always fighting a battle to get cheap labour low overhead somebody always behind you

Highend more time to reach the top but finical better paying but if you do lowend its almost impossible to get in to highend
I wrote a blog read http://www.kdunphy.com/desgn.htm

[bruce_taylor]

I hear you Kevin, I sell the rta cabinets to the people that want the low end stuff and do well with the installation and countertops. Still curios about if anybody is building anything that they can compete at that level. I make the markup on the cabinets and the installation and tops and it goes real quick. I build higher end specialty cabinetry wall units etc. that can't be had at those low prices. The last little kitchen I did in the rta cabinets I priced out custom doors and they cost as much as the cabinets cost me ??? But there are some great minds on here and I'm thinking maybe I'm missing something. I see its says senior member on my post now so maybe I'm having a senior moment you never know???

[MogulTx]

I think that we need to stop TRYING to compete with those crappy import products. There are some customers who will always go for the lowest price. You can't do much about those people. For all the others, there is hope. You can't just tell them that the cabinets are better- you have to show them how a custom built cabinet is a better choice. They have to see how they are going to get 20% more storage space because the cabinets are set up to fit the space tehy are going into and that you can add features that make them more utile. You have to show how your finishes can be customized to the exact color the customer wants and how the special attention to finish is going to make the cabinets last for the next 25-30 years vs the cheapo cabinets are going to be a 5-7 year proposition- but that the doors might sag in 3-5- and so they will want ot be rid of them before they can really afford to do so. The whole deal is that we are NOT hurting a customer by charging them a little more for the cabinets IFF the customer is getting more value and we are the ones providing it.

For the record: I do NOT do cabinets. But I do business in a couple of niche markets that are unique. They will NOT likely get exported. There will be others who will surely pop up and do this overseas- but they will not be able to steal most of the work that I do...

But people need to always be selling to the attributes that you offer to the customer. Otherwise, the cheap **** looks pretty good and comparable to them, and who could blame them for making the cheap choice if no one bothered to let them know the difference? And I get LOTS of push back from people who say that they DO sell to the better quality, longer life cycles, greater features that save the customer time and money... but it is usually just a half baked seller who never really learned the way to sell the product- and they are more of an "order taker"... IMHO.

MGM

[kevin]

Bruce I was born and raised in Toronto I saw the collapse of manufacturing

You can't compete with low end unless you move your shop to China

Look at Mercedes they don,t try to compete with North American

Get publised in a mazine etc .Market your self as an artis

Toady Sunday Iam in the shop doing a new lines of 3d legs .Iam willing to work smarter than the next guy .
Remeber you have sopbot that can do amazing carving last time I check no China **** has carvings

[kevin]

Forgot one other point the other thing thats hurting cabinet indusry is show on HGTV that have cheap painted cabinets with 20,000 worth of applinances granet counter top

[bruce_taylor]

I don't try to compete with anything that is a production item. I do mainly custom work, lots of custom countertops. I know that alot of production guys on here cut alot of cabinets. I just trying to get a feel of where they compete in the global market. Hoping that someone somewhere has a better way of doing things. As I stated before I sell rta cabinets and make a nice profit doing so. It is here to stay whether we like it or not. I just wonder what everyone else is doing. I really enjoy the customer who doesn't mind paying for a nice custom job !! But they are less and less.

[michael_schwartz]

Forgot one other point the other thing thats hurting cabinet indusry is show on HGTV that have cheap painted cabinets with 20,000 worth of applinances granet counter top

and then they talk about how the entire kitchen remodel took just 2 days and how the cherry cabinets with some kind of expresso mocha latte glaze were only $1000

[gene]

The USA has one of the higher cost of living , the high cost of materials and the higher cost of wages and average it on a global scale against a country that is known for sweat shops , and low wages it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this one out. you better enjoy what you do and be greatful for what you can do or you can sell out and sell china s--t and be happy with what you make. Imports are killing this nation. often their goverment will subitize their industry to undermine another countrys industry. without the jobs in place it disrupts the taxable income of not only the people who were laid off but the suppliers and all effected by the waterfall effect .

[gc3]

NAFTA ring a bell.....it kinda started with that, the internet...it's a global economy so best figure out a way to use it to your advantage or continue to complain about how unfair life is....

how many of you guys use vectric, 3d model club, vectorclipart3d, vectorart3d.....all based overseas...

[Xray]

vectric/vectorart3d are UK based, so we are not talking about 3rd world sweat shops here.
They have great product, speak English not Engrish, and excel at customer service, something that can rarely ever be said about Asian wares.

[gene]

Doug,
Very well said.

[bruce_taylor]

Some interesting views for sure, Not looking to debate the world economy. We all live with it everyday. Just looking for opinions on the whole rta cabinet deal and how different people handle it. Do you sell it, hate it, love it, discourage it, live with it or use it to your advantage somehow. Do you have a budget line and if so what is it. Thermafoil doors, painted, laminate, prefinished plywood flatpanel. Cardboard doors papermachete. Is your budget price 20% more or 80%. I have got to comment that the quality has come up alot since they came here a few years back, not high end by any means but for the money not a bad value. I saw a kitchen that was 5 years old and in good shape. Trying to be realistic I'm not pro import, but I am pro profit and I would loose a fair amount of money if I didn't offer this to low end clients, Mainly because most every other shop in town does and to compete in the market that is where its at. let er rip!!!!

[michael_schwartz]

I have a couple of inexpensive RTA cabinets hanging on the wall of my shop. The thermfoil doors look nice, but are easily damaged during assembly, or use. The included backs were cardboard. I could make something better for less in material cost, but not when you add in labor.

Otherwise the cam lock fittings actually make a box that is reasonably strong.

I could care less how inexpensive some of this stuff is. People who are in the market for something cheap will find it. I think its actually a good thing because people will regret buying allot of this stuff when it starts to fall apart.

[gc3]

http://woodshopnews.com/component/content/article/283-february-2012-4th/501854-biesse-acquires-manufacturing-facility-in-china


my point is it's a global market and living where I do I use it as such. I would like to see some links to the 3rd world cabinet sweat shops talked about here...cultures are different...what you call a sweat shop from the USA terms is the norm in other countries. same was said about products made in Japan until??? how many of you guys own/use foreign products Hafele...Blum.... Toyota how many USA tool makers are overseas my children at 6/8 years old now speak 3 languages...if you have a problem with communication you can use google translate so if it's espanglish so be it or broken hungarian so be it or english hey that's great take a look at 100kgarages....ponoko....esty