"Downgrade" a PC from Win ME to Win98?

[gerald_d]

Between the 5 PC's that we use, only one has Win ME while all the rest have Win98. The ME machine has driven me to the point where I am considering to "downgrade" the machine to Win98.

Can anybody give me tips on the practicality of this, without re-installing all the other software already on the machine?

[billp]

Gerald, One option could be "Partition Magic 7.0" a program costing about $70 (US). Their claim is that it will allow you to establish seperate partitions on any hard drive, and install different operating systems on each. There is also a sub-program called "Boot Magic' which comes with it that will also allow you to choose which drive you want to boot up to. This would theoretically allow someone to run Windows 98, and ME, or Windows 2000 on the same machine without interference, or 'bleeding"from the other drives.I'm sure if you go to Google or any other good search engine you could research it in it's entirety.
Best part of their claim is that NO reformat is necessary to do all of the above..Bill P.

[srwtlc]

I agree with Bill that Partition Magic will split up your drive and allow you to boot to the OS of choice, but I think you will still have to install your software because it won't be installed or in the registry for the new OS. I may be wrong, or there may be ways around it. You would also need to have enough drive space to do so. Going from ME to 98se would be an upgrade. If your not going to use ME any more I think I would just fdisk/reformat and start with a clean slate. Just be sure to backup everything you need to and then some.

[sheldon@dingwallguitars.com]

Gerald, It might be easier to upgrade to XP.

[gerald_d]

Sheldon, yeah I agree that XP could be easier. But I keep hearing stories about how heavy it is on resources - meaning that I will find that I have to continue the cycle and upgrade all the hardware as well.

Also hear that XP is very difficult to transfer from one machine to another. There are 2 of us using 5 machines and I don't plan on buying 5 XP licences. . . . . . .

Bill & Scott, the partitioning route seems to require a complete new installation of all software into the new partition with the new OS. I don't plan to run both 98 and ME - only 98. Might as well then type format c: and start from the beginning in any case


When we went from win95 to win98, we only slipped in one CD and everything (printers, mouse, international keyboard, ISO paper sizes, etc) stayed correct. Can't we just shove in a Win98 disk again and go just one step backwards?


Reloading software is easy, but customising each package back to our preferences is the pain - simple things like paper sizes, drivers for peripherals, Cad toolbar locations, e-mail account settings, and many others . . . . . .

[danhamm@abccom.bc.ca]

Gerald I to have 5 computers, the shopbot and my main shop is located about 500 meters from the
house and my lasers and engravers are in the basement.. awhile back I lost 2 hard drives within
a month of each other, and a lot of logo's and
ireplacable files.. I have to keep going with win98 I tried winme and 2000. but winme is to buggy and win 2ooo won't work with the laser
drivers.. so this long winded spiel is about a program called (ghost) it will ghost your OS to
a partition which you can make without any magic
and once you have your OS working good just ghost it to the partition then if you have a problem
from the cdrom you can restore it and your back in business...time it takes is about 3 to 5 min..
I have a separate old 545 meg hardive with it on.
I have done it with each computer it comes back clean..

[garlicking@charter.net]

Gerald;
FYI I have a dual boot system using Partition
Magic. 1 hardrive; win98 on partition 1 for sb and most software; 2000\NT on partition 2 for other software that require NT.
For what it's worth
Keith Otero

[donchandler]

I use MST boot (search for it on the net) It is only $14 and works perfect. I have Dos 6.22 and Win 98 and can boot to either one. If you don't respond to the prompt when It is booting,, it will boot up to the last used system. When I turn on the shopbot it boots to Dos, If I need Windows , I just reboot.

[sheldon@dingwallguitars.com]

Dan, this sounds like a solution to my problems as well. Could you explain this in a little more detail "then if you have a problem
from the cdrom you can restore it and your back in business"?

Thanks

[gerald_d]

Maybe I should be more blunt in saying what I want to achieve. I want ME removed completely from the 5th machine because I have many hangups on this machine and none on the Win 98 machines. But I want to avoid hitting the format c: command because there are many customised settings already.

Since Win 95/98/ME are from the same generic family, I was wondering if there was a simple "downgrade" process. Nobody has mentioned this possibly yet and so it looks like we are heading for a format c: command.

[bill.young]

Gerald,

As a last resort, after you've backed up all the stuff you can think of and right before you type Format c:, why not just stick your Windows 98 CD in and try to run Setup from the Run command. The worst thing that will happen will be that it won't work and you'll have to format your hard drive, but it looks like you're heading in that direction anyway.

If you try it, let us know if it works...I've got a laptop with ME that I'd like to "downgrade".

Bill

[danhamm@abccom.bc.ca]

Gerald, It is probably possible to downgrade "but"
you will have to force it to replace...but all the
api calls won't make the existing connections to your existing software workable...

Sheldon, Ghost is made by symantec...norton utilities.. it will work in a variety of ways.
example backup your whole operating system ..all files.. partition to partition.,disc to disc.
disc to image.,. and you can access from..floppy,
cd, C:\prompt.. wherever to restore.. example
if you wanted to backup your entire system to a secondary hard drive once a week..or just selected
files.. or a combination..

[gerald_d]

Found this page (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;q272159) on the www tonight - looks like I must check if I have a fat32 file sructure first. If this machine is fat32, then a downgrade is out of the question already.

*mumbling to myself* "where do I check this fat32 thing . . . . . . . "

[sea_nc@bellsouth.net]

Gerald,
I encountered that FAT32 question recently, and the suggestion was to go to My Computer, right-click DriveC, and click Properties. On my ME system the properties window says "File System: FAT32". I encountered that tip on the web as I prepare to reformat/reinstall a Dell Windows ME system that has gotten unstable (Dell's drastic alternative to troubleshooting). Reformat/reinstall is a PITA and I wish I could "downgrade" my computer to Windows98 without disturbing existing setup as you are wanting to do. I don't know what brand of computer you have, but if you have a Dell or "Dell-like" system you may have an alternative. Dell apparently hides an image of factory setup on hard drive that can be accessed through a batch file named "zztop". If you have such an image on your hard drive that is not yet overwritten and your initial factory setup of WinME was stable, then you can reset computer back to day one using the disk image. That wouldn't preserve all of your settings, but it should save work vs. reformat/reinstall (and settings for some programs might be restored from exported settings files if you have them as backup).

As an alternative, have you considered using one of the programs designed to help you transfer files and settings from an old computer to a new one? I haven't used any of them, but several programs (such as PCSync http://www.laplink.com/products/pcsync/overview.asp) appeared in a quick Google.com search for "new computer transfer settings".
Good luck,
David

[rgengrave@aol.com]

Gerald I would not do it any way listed above IMHO, I would do a new install but if you want a simple way to do it at your own risk? back your stuff up first, and buy you a new hard drive and use the 1 you have now as a slave, you will not loose any of your files and you will have more room for storage.

Now if you wanted to you can use both drives and boot the 1 you want, or you can use partition software, NOT MY FIRST CHOICE.

Here is a site I send ME and XP users to, it is worth the read

http://www.tweak3d.net/articles/win2kdualboot/

Just remember 1 thing, first there was Win 3.1 now you have Win XP, half or more of your programs will not work when installed on another O/S.

Best rule is to have an old computer around and use that for testing new O/S, if your stuff don't work? you loose nothing.

Just me 2cents worth
RonV

[gerald_d]

Thanks for the extra input guys! So far the FAT32 issue seems to be a red herring, because my Win 98 machines are also FAT 32's.

David, why is it that you, Bill Young and I all want to remove Win ME from laptops . . . . ? Your suggestion of trying to find the initial "stable" factory installation sounds good. I have found older stable versions on this laptop before and I will check if I can go back to day zero and rebuild from there.

[gerald_d]

And I have just discovered another reason to be wary of hitting the format c: command - this laptop was supplied with no CD's or diskettes with the OS or the drivers for sound card, touchpad, CD-Rom, display, etc., etc.!

[david_fisk]

Wouldn't it be nice to have a linux version of the software. Linux is stable it dosn't change when a company decides it dosn't like it anymore. It was designed to operate the computer not make profits for its designers. I despartely want to make the switch, but need my software to be compiled for linux. We would have a long term stable platform to workwith if our SB software just worked with linux. How hard would it be to port the software to linux? Or does it have the same kind of trouble as win2000 does in operating the hardware?

[danhamm@abccom.bc.ca]

I have been watching a Company called Lindows..
they are working on a version of linux that will
use windows platform programs.. www.lindows.com

You can run your shopbot software in a dos window
from linux now, but its pretty shakey at least the one I tried was..

[Wdyasq@yahoo.com]

"Wouldn't it be nice to have a linux version of the software. Linux is stable it dosn't change when a company decides it dosn't like it anymore. It was designed to operate the computer not make profits for its designers."
***********
Thanks for the news............Now for the truth. There are many "Builds" for LINUX. The US federal government spent millions of our tax dollars configuring EMC (Enhanced Machine Control) for real time machining in LINUX. They use ONE "RED HAT" build.

The LINUX system might be stable. I hear it is and I have been thinking of building an internet box using LINUX alone. I would think supporting LINUX could be a nightmare. As one can see, there are enough problems with only a handful of WINDOZE versions........AND when Joe, Mike or Phillip build their own version of LINUX - well, I'm not one to try and figure out WHY it won't (choose your problem here). And since the designers are not making profit from the system, are THEY going to support it?

I'll stay with DOS. I have been running DOS systems for almost 15 years. It is stable and it works. When it is required to run ShopBot in a WINDOZE environment I guess I will learn to live with the Blue screen of death on a more consistent basis.

Ron Brown - wdyasq@yahoo.com (mailto:wdyasq@yahoo.com)

If Stupidity got us into this mess,
then why can't it get us out? - Will Rogers

[danhamm@abccom.bc.ca]

Hmmm, I'm not going to defend Linux "but"
I am curious as to what you use for a Cad program
on Dos. autocad 3 ?..
I have one computer running on it with redhat and
coreldraw, which was made for corel linux,but works fine with redhat or suse I havent tried
mandrake..I know there are those running the shopbot on linux computers and I would pretty
much bet that they won't change..
Your argument about linux support is missing the point..The linux Kernal is free but programs
made to run on it aren't..and the different ver.
are compatable at least the programs that run on them are..
I recently took a coarse on linux we have a couple of servers that run on redhat apache
and we were hacked, by individuals looking for credit card numbers from Quebec..they left their
calling card..I am much looking forward to the day
I can toss windows, the computer with linux on it
has run flawlessly since the day I loaded it..
my 2 cents..

[ron_cleaver]

There is no such thing as a stable operating system (OS), and there never will be. Operating sytems are like any other software - they either evolve or die.

As software evolves, inevitably bugs are introduced, and even remain in released products (as we all know). No programmer is immune from bugs - that would imply perfection.

Preferences for an OS can reach the level of religious fervor. I prefer to take a more practical point of view - i.e., whatever works.

I've found that it's best to devote a single computer to a single type of task. If you use your general purpose computer for your CAD/CAM work, sooner or later you have a problem, perhaps just by installing some software that suddenly prevents your CAD or ShopBot software from working.

Today's low price for computers makes that approach possible. I just bought an Athlon XP 1800+ for the CAD/CAM work for about $600, and I'm still using a laptop with DOS and Windows 95 for the ShopBot.

If you don't upgrade a system that's working, you will have fewer problems, at least until the hardware dies.

[david_fisk]

One of the troubles with Dos and windows is the baggage that they retain from the original limitation of microprocessors. Operating systems like Linux or Unix were built from the ground up to handle multitasking. These types of OS have the advantage of experience. Its no wonder there are so many Linux based servers out there. A little more reliability is what a lot of people would like to see. Not a "perfect" utopian OS, but still a lot better then the alternative(s).

[bruce_clark]

...not make profits...

I don't care about the operating systems, but HEY, what is wrong with making a buck? Haven't you read Ayn Rand? Don't you charge for the work you do on your Shopbot?

While Shopbot is a GREAT company, they are still there to "make profits". Without the "profit" motive, you would not be able to purchase a Shopbot, nor would it be at good as it is (profit=$$$ for research and improvements).

My $.02.

Bruce Clark

[Richard Saylor]

Back to the original question about 'downgrading' to Windows 98 from ME. Is ME the original OS installed on this hardrive, or is it an upgrade from an already existing OS? If the latter is true then you can use the Add/Remove Programs app to uninstall it and default to the original OS (hopefully Win98!). If the former is true then you might as well start over again and reinstall Win98 to a formatted drive.

[dhunt]

I recently added a new drive to my computer, and now have Windoze XP installed on that new drive.
Windows XP is as NICE! as Windows ME was Micro$oft's NIGHTMARE operating system !!
I tried (several times) installing the ShopBot machine-running software on this XP drive, but with no success.
No,I don't intend to drive the ShopBot via this XP drive, I just like to have a copy of the machine-running software on my Design Computer for the occasional File Edit function, or to read the manual, via command HC.
Is it just me? or is it that the machine-running software is simply too old to get along with XP ?
Users stuck in the Win98 rut should be aware that Micro$oft no longer 'supports' Win98, and our inability to progress beyond the thinking that Win98 is THE system for running this thing can last only so long. Sooner or later, we MUST have Win2000 and XP versions, as life evolves along with Operating Systems, if you see what I mean...

[gerald_d]

My original problem with Win ME on my laptop solved itself - the laptop got stolen while in luggage in the care of a large airline. Bought 2 identical mini-towers to replace it and still got change out of the insurance claim. Of course they are running Win 98 and running twice as fast because of better processors.

This morning I brought one of them to Germany, and now I don´t have to cart a laptop up and down again The 2 PC´s will be synchronised over a Virtual Private Net.

[cochisea@yahoo.com]

I just bought a dell notebook from my company.
Of course it was part of a network. The curren operating system is NT. I want to uninstall the NT
AND install windows 98 or XP.
what I need to know is what is procedural steps to achieve this. Thanx in advance

[bjwat@comcast.net]

Anthony,
You should be able to insert the 98 CD into the drive and format the existing NT partitions to 98 format. You may need to use FDisk, which is on the 98 startup floppy...or make a startup disk from an existing 98 machine.

It is possible to make the machine a dual-boot NT/98, but I would advise against it since you need to modify the NT boot.ini for it to work.

If you have problems, Partition Magic is a quick and easy way to wipe the NT stuff and setup the 98 stuff. In some cases...you have to use this program to get it to work depending upon which version of NT you are running.

I would recommend Windows98 Second Edition (SE)...Don't use the regular version. I'd hold off on XP for now if you are going to run the Bot off of it, IMHO.

Hope that helps,
Brady

[Paul & Julie]

Hi this is the procedure to put win 98 on your NT machine
1 insert a dos boot disk and start in Dos
then go to a: PROMPT and type fdisk
then follow the menu to delete the NOnDOS partition

2 create a dos partition using Fdisk

3 format the drive

4 use a win98 boot disk to load cd rom drivers and put your 98 CD in the drive go to whatever drive letter your Rom is in and type setup and you are away..


this is just to try and make it a little more simple for you

Regards

Paul