Warped

[joe]

Yesterday I spotted one of my signs laying face down on the sidewalk. I couldn't believe it. This was a “Joint ID” sign for attorneys. It's 1.5” HDU 2'X8' painted both sides with same paint. It was installed using 1.5” masonry studs.

The power of the warp was strong enough to pull free.*

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e115/jcrumley1/IMG_0084-2.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e115/jcrumley1/IMG_0081-1.jpg


Joe Crumley

[mario]

Joe: What would be your policy when something like this happens? Can this be repaired or a new sign is more likely? Would your client get a special discount for a new sign?

[knight_toolworks]

temp difference between a black face and the brick around it? I had a edge glued plywood sign (ripped ply in 1" wide strips and glued them face to face. Then I sealed it both sides with three coats of epoxy so no woodwas bare so it was moisture and water proof then clear finish to protect it from uv. they had it inside in a window till they got it hung and it warped. so cool one side hot the other can do wonders.

[michael_schwartz]

That would be my worst nightmare. It sounds like nobody was hurt, so hopefully your able to get it taken care of, and keep the customer happy.

I am sure it must have taken quite a bit of force to pull all 4 anchors out. My guess is that that may still have happened, even with a lighter gauge steel supporting structure. I would be on the phone, with the manufacturer of the foam. Of course the other possibility is maybe it didn't take very much force and something was wrong with the anchors. Did somebody else install?

Lately my thought has been that for liability reasons I am going to start explaining to customers that exterior installations (with exception to minor projects) need to be engineered, and approved by an architect. Then I would sub installation, to a commercial contractor.

However in my area most of my potential customers would laugh at the idea, of spending money to have that done. This is one of the reasons I am focusing on interior signs at the moment.

[joe]

This is another example where HDU should not be counted on for structure. If this panel was in a steel angle iron frame it would have been OK. I'm still learning.
The lesson here is, HDU WARPS and can not be trusted with standard installation techniques. It should be considered in a completely new way. This material does not like nuts, bolts or screws.

Joe Crumley

[letterman7]

What is the weight of the hdu that you are using, Joe? It's got to be a regional issue with daylight or something. I just can't figure why you're having such an issue with it.. here's one that's been hanging for 8 years facing north/northeast and mounting with pads similar to what you have:
15074
1.5" 18# foam... and the only touchup I've had to do to it was a scratch by the building maintenance people.

Recently I've moved up to 20# Duna board. I like the way it carves better than the SignFoam. I feel the thicker densities are more stable... I have had 15# sandblasted pieces warp a little bit, but nothing like your illustration. Weird...

[ken_rychlik]

Rick, Could the differnce be that yours is just Vcarved and Joe carved away the whole board face except for the letters?

[letterman7]

Dunno, but I don't think it should matter. HDU is closed cell all the way through, so there isn't a "grain" so to speak to open up. However, that said, as I mentioned I did have a small - I mean small (12" x 24") sandblasted single face edge warp similar to Joe's years ago. If memory serves it was very light weight - 10 or 12# or something.

I wonder if it (Joe's) sign would have done the same thing if it were bolted through the face at the corners? Very hard to say.. might be the finish having something to do with it. I've always used enamels and more recently two part urethanes. If that's a latex finish the paint might move more and contribute to the problem.

[joe]

I think Rick is correct about light weight density HDU having a tendency to warp more. My sign faces the sun all day long and during the summer it probably reaches 150 degrees or more. Even so I've never has a long skinny piecethat didn't bend. Since it has no fibers it's inherantly weak. There's nothing inside it to lock it together. Which means you should use a density

This photo was taken at Roswell, NM. I'll be riding my bike back there this summer and will take more photo's of their entry signs. They are all coming apart.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e115/jcrumley1/DSC00124.jpg

Duna is in a class all it's own. Second best is Sign Foam. Odd as it may seem Duna isn't that expensive.

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com

[tuck]

Joe, I think you can salvage that sign by laminating a 2' x 8' x 3/4" MDO piece to the back of it with some Gorilla Glue and reinstalling it.

[joe]

Tucker,

I think you're right. One of the best techniques I've used with HDU is 3/4" MDO. I'm hoping they don't call. I'm way too busy to monkey around with this kind of work.

Joe Crumley