View Full Version : Apprenticeship
It all started 4000 years ago.
Apprenticeships for artists left us around the turn of the century. While it was a tried and proven method of getting one's skill level up to professional quality, it's almost gone today. There are A few trades who still have journey men status but the historical apprenticeship has faded away.
In the west we have adopted the idea artists should not copy other artists work. You should be completely new and fresh with your thoughts. I believe this is the most inefficient method of learning the skills of a trade. During the 15th 16th and 18th centuries young aspiring artists would spend years studying, and duplicating the arts under the directions of senior craftsmen. The job was to copy, copy, copy etc. Once you learned how to draw hands, next was heads, ets. The net effect was very positive. If you didn't have the right stuff, but was fairly skilled, you were put on as an assistant. And that would be your life. Those with exception skill went out on their own.
I don't think there is anything wrong with finding a skilled artist and learn to copy. Just like artists would do under historical tutelage. Find an artist you admire and follow their lead. Follow it in every way. Don't worry about your work looking like someone else. It never will. You are you and it will never look the same as the fellow you are imitating. The main advantage is it will cause you to practice. Practice is like putting money in the bank. Mistakes are your building blocks to success. By choosing a method and staying with it you will gain skills faster than any other way. I wish I had been given this information when I started out.
Even now when looking at my Leonardo books, I'm humbled.
I encourage a person to copy and copy often.
Joe Crumley
_________________
WWW.normansignco.com
Joe, it's interesting you bring up this subject. A year or two ago I was approached by a couple of parents who had kids in the local high school woodshop class who were really interested in pursuing a career working with wood. They asked if there was a way I could put an apprenticeship program together to work with the kids. No pay, just educate them. I was really excited about the idea. Being able to pass on to antoher generation the skills, knowledge and experience I had gotten over the years. I've always considered it a better idea to pass this on instead of taking it to the grave with me.
I talked with my lawyer and my insurance agent. Each one said to call the state labor and industries agency. The state weenies said I would have to pay unemployment and workers compensation in the amount of $13.50 an hour to have an apprentice in my shop. If I didn't and the kid was hurt, I would be responsible for all doctors bills, workers comp claims and long term disability claims.
The government was the killer of a great way to work with kids and help give them a leg up in the world. It is really sad that we can't help kids learn valuable skills so they can be productive citizens in our society. But I guess this is the way for government to keep solid control over the cradle-to-grave nanny-state.
Thanks for posting Don.
Like you I would like to share the knowledge I've acquired. I figure I have a bout ten years, if I'm lucky fifteen years but I can see the future coming up fast. Can't imagine doing classes at 90.
I can't blame the govt. for your problems with setting up a little trade school. We live in a legal society, jam packed with lawyers. It's the natural flow the govt has to follow. I don't know who's to blame bud I'd think they are also the victims.
One of the best apprenticeships I know of today is the one physicians follow. My baby daughter finished medical school a couple of years ago. Now that's classic apprentice work. Sign shops are opening up all over the place without any knowledge of what they are doing. You don't need experience and there isn't any accredation. No license requirement. They just need an Apple with lots of fonts.
This forum is about as good as it gets with regard to sharing information.
Joe Crumley
SterlingDevelop
04-22-2012, 12:55 PM
Insert angry rant re: freedom and limited gov't here.:)
Ajcoholic
04-22-2012, 12:55 PM
Joe, it's interesting you bring up this subject. A year or two ago I was approached by a couple of parents who had kids in the local high school woodshop class who were really interested in pursuing a career working with wood. They asked if there was a way I could put an apprenticeship program together to work with the kids. No pay, just educate them. I was really excited about the idea. Being able to pass on to antoher generation the skills, knowledge and experience I had gotten over the years. I've always considered it a better idea to pass this on instead of taking it to the grave with me.
I talked with my lawyer and my insurance agent. Each one said to call the state labor and industries agency. The state weenies said I would have to pay unemployment and workers compensation in the amount of $13.50 an hour to have an apprentice in my shop. If I didn't and the kid was hurt, I would be responsible for all doctors bills, workers comp claims and long term disability claims.
The government was the killer of a great way to work with kids and help give them a leg up in the world. It is really sad that we can't help kids learn valuable skills so they can be productive citizens in our society. But I guess this is the way for government to keep solid control over the cradle-to-grave nanny-state.
Here in Canada (at least in the province of Ontario) I have had a lot of high school students over the past 20 years I have been working, as co-op students. A few even stayed with the trade and are now working as professional woodworkers, one even owning a business similar to mine in a nearby town.
With the Co-op program, the school pays for the workplace safety insurance, and you do not pay the student as he/she is in school, ie, learning. It is a good way to give young people a realistic idea of what it is like to work in the industry without having a cost involved other than the time taken to instruct them.
Dont know if anything exists like that in the USA?
AJC
Your post made me smile, Joe. On the first day of class for me at the Art Institute of Atlanta many years ago, the instructor said something like: "I know you've all been told all your lives not to copy. But I'm telling you right now..., copy, copy, copy!" That was some of the best advice I ever got in regards to my own artwork and style. And least us not forget, imitation is the highest form of flattery.
Most of the great musicians started out imitating whomever they admired most and traditionally the visual artist do the same and then find their own way and style. We are all influenced, whether we realize it or not.
In my 2 years at the art institute, I don't recall any instructor ever discussing the sign industry and the need for graphic artist therein. It's something I more or less fell into but it sure has changed, some things for the better and some for the worse. Computers are a double-edge sword that streamline our work and drive machines that make things much faster and easier for us, but at the same time encourage people to go into the sign business without any knowledge or skills. The sign business, like so many other businesses, has been "dumbed down" to a degree, and the old world artist/craftsmen like yourself are becoming a rarity. Yes, you use computers, CNC, etc., but you use them with skill, talent, thought and experience.
Back when computers started changing the industry and all of the "mom & pop" sign shops started springing up (franchises, etc.), some fellow wrote an article for Signs of the Times magazine entitled "Please Don't Squeeze The Helvetica!" It was a hilarious look (with photos) at ineptitude run amok designing signage. With the title of the article, you can only imagine.
There needs to be a sign school, "The Institute for Sign Design and Fabrication". There will always be a need for signs. After all, the sign business is the world's 2nd oldest profession. ;)
Mark,
That would be great. A school dedicated to signs. There is only one problem, that is we don't make enough money. Sign artists are artists through and through. It's an honorable craft. It's up to us to keep it that way.
Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com
Back in the 1970's there were still a couple sign making schools in the US.
The one I went to was called The Institute of Lettering and Design.
It was located in Chicago IL.
Depending on if you paid your own way or if you got in on a State funded program, the length of time for the courses would vary. I was there for a year and a half, 5 days a week, 8 hours a day. Being on a State funded program, the course was probably stretched out for as long as possible.
For example, my first MONTH was spent doing nothing but speedball pen and ink lettering. But that's about what it takes to learn great eye-hand control. Learning good layout techniques came next. Then using tempra paint and sable brushes to do showcards! How many people these days even know what a showcard was?
All supplies were included AND minimum wage was given for the time attending school. This program was called CETA - Cooperative Educational Training Assistance. Unfortunately the majority of the students on this program just showed up to get a check and never went on to become sign makers. There were probably between 30 and 50 students who came and went during the time I was there. I know of 4 or 5 that got into it.
After I got out of school I worked at a sign shop that specialized in paper signs and showcards. Everything was hand painted and screen printed. The silk screen stencils were all hand cut. After two years there, I felt I was ready to open my own shop and even though I THOUGHT I was a good sign painter, looking back on some of my work from then, it was STILL amateurish looking after basically being at it for 3 1/2 years. That was my apprenticeship and I continued to learn by doing things I had never tried before.
To be able to hand paint any number of typefaces correctly out of your head is a skill that takes a long time to master. Now it's no longer necessary and few kids today have the patience to stick with it to even try it. It seems that now it's all about learning how to run a machine and software and less about what makes an effective, eye catching design.
As a bare bones business there's not many businesses you can get into and make money with just the start up cost of a couple quarts of paint, some brushes and rollers. I know there's a few "old timers" left that do nothing but window splashes (in PAINT) exclusively for car dealerships and stores in cities that still permit it. Don't get me going about sign regulations and only being able to cover XX% of your windows for signage!
I could go on for hours about all this but that's probably best done at another time and place. But it's been a fun ride and I'm still having fun with it - just in a different direction at the moment.
Mayo,
Thanks for posting about your past. I remember the Institute and met some of the fellows in 1981 at Mike Jacksons Letterhead Bash.
Today the hand lettering guy are stonger than ever. It's now international at http://creativesignmakers.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=6394
We will be meeting in Arcola, Illinois for a Walldog bash. Please let me know what you think of the artwork.
Joe Crumley
Joe -
I just got access to the CSA web site.
Which artwork were you referring to?
And registration for Arcola is closed - I assume that means they have as many painters as they need? I could always show up as a walldog crasher with fitches in hand...
It's about a 4 hour drive from where I'm located.
Mayo,
Well I've been searching all over that forum and can't find all the artwork. It may have been removed. I'll keep looking because it's special.
Here is the Walldog forum website. http://www.thewalldogs.com/
My schedule is filling up fast. I spoke to Mark F. yesterday about a last minute attendance. He said there will be approx 110 registered artists and ten or so walls. I'm sure if you bring a fitch or two everyone would let you pitch in. There a friendly group of guys.
I may saddle up the hog and do a ride by. It's two days from here. It would be fun to sling some paint with you. These are stunning events. The food and catering are all provided by the city of Arcola
Joe
chiloquinruss
04-25-2012, 11:06 PM
Last night on How it's made, they showed making shotguns in England. 25 very skilled craftsman and 4 apprentices. The Apps work for 4 years before they allowed to make a gun, then it must pass the scrutiny of ALL of the skilled craftsman, it it passes they then are allowed to build ASSISTED guns for the next 2 years! Wanna bet they get good dollars for their products! :) Russ
Greencarvings
04-26-2012, 09:58 PM
I think I would give my 3rd born child for the chance of an apprentice ship with Mr. Crumley! Hmmm, I am about 25 miles from Mike Meyers in Mazeppa MN. hmmmm. . . . .
chiloquinruss
04-27-2012, 07:40 PM
Well there seems to be more and more regional ShopBot gatherings, maybe if we all chipped in some $ we could put "Joe on Tour"! :) Russ
Russ,
You're such a good guy and what a nice offer.
It's fun, every once in a while, to attend a router gathering but I'm not up for much more than I've done in the past.
What I may do is to offer a One Week apprenticeship for a couple of guys. Putting on a full fledged workshop is hard work and expensive too. I do best with limited topics and smaller gathering.
A battery charger for me is to attend events like Arcola Wall Dog event. It's 100 of our best artists painting the downtown wall with themes. Now that's a hoot.
http://arcolawalldogsproject.com/about-the-project
Joe
chiloquinruss
04-27-2012, 10:50 PM
OK here's option two! How bout' we getya' one of them der ball caps with a video camera in it and you can just wear it around the shop when you're doin' one of yer goodiies! :) :) :)
Seriously I have really enjoyed your posts and have learned much! Thank you sincerly! Russ
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