Is it cheating if I ask for your help?

[Greencarvings]

I have done several small signs for a local church. Just hang on the wall church office, and other small things like that. Additionally did a 2ftX1ft 3d carving of the last supper that hangs in their dining hall.

Well today they approached me (actually knocked on my door) and wanted to know if I could do their main sign.

This is the rough idea he gave me. This is just a rough idea. Shape is up to design, font is up to design. Actually the whole design is open. They use the 3 crosses as a sort of logo and I would like to keep it in the design. They have cedar accents on the church so I believe this is a Mr. Crumley inspired western red cedar adventure. Following the golden triangle the sign will be 6ft wide. Supported on each side by cedar posts.

Anyone have any design Ideas other then the one given to me? The definitives are it must say "WELCOME" and it must say "CHURCH OF CHRIST."

No times or other info on it. He did write down a few mission statements and objectives the church follows if they would fit in the design.

I want to do this sign the justice required for a religious sign.

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb179/stoneyreef/001.jpg


This sign is on the other side of the church and will be staying:
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb179/stoneyreef/photobucket-1271-1335817968881.jpg

This is the three cross logo.
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb179/stoneyreef/photobucket-5165-1335817932599.jpg


This is where the sign will go, next to the tree in that area.
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb179/stoneyreef/photobucket-4367-1335817903952.jpg

[myxpykalix]

I love the quote on the signboard:D

[Greencarvings]

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb179/stoneyreef/church1.jpg
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb179/stoneyreef/church2.jpg

This is my first draft of the Church sign. The yellow I propose to be a nice metallic gold flake paint or gold leaf.

I am also considering replacing the scroll work on the bottom of the sign with a 3D praying hands motif.

Please give me some feedback.

[joe]

If I were you, I'd be staggered.

That's like a personal call from someone upstairs. You gotta do the best sign you've ever made. When you need assistance there are losts of folks who are willing to pitch in. The main problem, most guys on this forum have little or no experience with this kind of sign.

I'll be pleased to pitch in every now and again, but this is your project. Here's my first hint. Sit on your drawings a day or two before showing them to anyone. Second is to follow the leader by searching out good church sign designs.

church-sign.org/
This website is a yawn. They are showing their ability to use a V bit and gold leaf. Not one of these signs has any soul. They are technical exhibitions and dead dogs.

Your sign should be broken into panels. You have at least three different topic headings. Don't forget how important the posts are. It's hard to command any sence of stability or longevity with skinney little legs.

I'll be posting as we go along.

Joe

[Greencarvings]

Believe me, I was staggered. I was sitting here getting ready to bake some chocolate chip cookies for the girls when they got home from school and a knock on the door and a walk down the street later. . . . .

The sketch above is their sketch. Posts? In the sketch he is doing double 4X4 posts cut with an angle. I was thinking that would be quite stout, but I guess I was not sure on the just cut at an angle thing.

3 panels? What do you mean by that?

[rej]

i sent you a pm

[Greencarvings]

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb179/stoneyreef/church3.jpg

after a bit more inspiration

[joe]

Here are a couple of posts.

I used a 4X4 treated post and my surface materials. I often use Rough Cedar, MDO, Decking Materials, and other textured materials. My favorite is Rough Cedar.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e115/jcrumley1/IMG_0252-1.jpg

These were made from treated posts with fluted extira. Don't use Extira. It's way too soft.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e115/jcrumley1/IMG_0249-1.jpg

Joe

[Greencarvings]

I forgot Crumley 101! Outline all letters in black or white or what not so they stand out! :)

[bob_reda]

To me, that particular design does not look like it fits well between two posts. I would pocket out the area to make the crosses proud and also do the same with the church name and v carve welcome and the scroll work. Just my .02

Bob

[joe]

I agree with Bob,

I'm not too sure about V Carving with Gold. It's for sure flashy and crisp but is that really the look you are after. Your sign should, in my opinion, go with the architecture.

For me Church Signs are extremely special and I'm not a Christian. But I have a profound respect for what these places mean. And when I take one on, it's a project I don't take on lightly. Over the past few years I've turned down several church requests. That's because I can't find myself putting flashing lights or message boards on a house of worship. I won't do it.

Ok here we go. This may get me kicked off the forum. When I work on one of these sign I imagine what Jesus would like best. As a Carpenter what would he do? If he was standing besides me, how would he go about it That's where I come from. I feel the same way about signs I make for all my customers. What would they really like to see? I know, many churches display gold all over the place but I can't picture Jesus laying down gold. There is a much nicer, more humble way. Markers of this kind should be permanent and when they weathered should gain respect. I can't find it within me to put plastic or temporary materials on a house of God. And this comes from an Agnostic.

I'll post a little more later but it's time for my first cup of coffee.

Joe Crumley

[dakers]

design is subjective and there are so many options, since you asked, here is how i begin: i start with zoning to see setbacks and sign sizes allowed, in my city i would not be permitted to put a sign in front of the church due to set backs ,not much room directly in front of the church so it looks like it would go in a side yard in my zoning district. i drive up and down the street to see how the dimensions would look to make sure a horizontal design at the size they want will be the best choice or should i suggest a vertical design. then try to bring building colors, roof colors, and building architectural features into the sign design. i try to make the sign look like it is a cohesive design with the building if appropriate. i try to make the sign do what it needs to do as far as legibility for those driving down the street. sometimes i print on my desktop printer on letter size paper the actual size of the letters and tape them up for buyer to see. i try to use panels especially if in the future some copy may change. there can be many compromises along the way that prevent me from reaching all my goals including budget so i try to put my ego aside and go with the flow when i cant make the perfect sign for the customer.

However i do see merit in doing the nicer posts as Joe suggested as a foundation for the sign design and it is always nice to think about lighting, landscaping ideas for plantings, raised beds, etc. in the discussion.

[Greencarvings]

Keep the feed back and discussions flowing. I am learning a ton and enjoying the heck out of this.

[joe]

I almost always start my concept designs with Fonts. Sometimes a chosen font will control the whole design and set the tone.

After I've settled down on that I will often look for a supporting Icon or symbol. Next is the panel shape. Not all signs have a panel. Windows or vehicles must rely on the letter styles and Icons.

I plan on going over these idea's in detail at the Indiana workshop. There seems to be lots of interest in the concept and development process. There are lots of approaches other than the one I use. But you gotta teach what you know. Like everyone else I'm always looking for new idea's and methods.

Joe Crumley

[Greencarvings]

They do like the 3rd one. Since this is probably the most intense project I have ever done:

They do want it out of cedar. Thus, do you think a glue up of 2" thick rough cedar will be sufficient? How would you brace the back? The crosses and the Church of Christ words will be pocketed and shapes cut out and inlaid so they stand proud of the board. The welcome will be v-carved, I will get rid of the scroll and replace it with the Save the lost motto.

I think it is missing something though. Will the posts bring it together? How would you attach it to the posts? Powder coated angle iron?

Planter will be underneath it. Very few city ordinances on signage, and the few there are we can pass with flying colors. What do you think of a texturing tool path on the inside of the gold stripe?

[joe]

Cedar is an excellent wood for outdoors but is usually used in a casual way. I'd probably use cleats on the back since this wood is going to move around a lot. It's going to check but last a long time.

Your choice to pocket will look good if you leave a little glow line around the letters. I'd try to use all upper case if possible. That will look more formal. You don't want it to look like a camping sign.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e115/jcrumley1/z1.jpg

[Greencarvings]

Lets tone down the sign shape. I believe materials cost wise it will be a wash between hdu and cedar build up. I am going to investigate a couple designs around the praying hands model and the trinity on the cross model.

[Greencarvings]

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb179/stoneyreef/photobucket-5915-1336066412418.jpg
I am thinking of making the larger cross this model then it might have the flair factor I want

[steve_g]

Patrick

Please check... generally protestant churches do not display Christ on the cross,,,

Steve

[joe]

Looks like it's going to be difficult.

Good luck. I'm done.

[Greencarvings]

Did not know that about the cross as I am not religious.

[steve_g]

Joe



"Looks like it's going to be difficult.

Good luck. I'm done."


I'm not sure I understand your comment?

Steve

[joe]

Steve,

I'm always willing to assist with materials and designs. I'm not into wandering all over the place with what if. When I have a customer like this I do my best to quickly loose them.

Joe

[steve_g]

Joe

I understand... thanks for clarifying.

Steve

[Dana Decker]

type in google images, " signs of the Church of Christ "

none of the signs are to elaborate but to the point, not a lot of symbolism, really kinda plane as signs go

[Greencarvings]

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb179/stoneyreef/church6a.jpg
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb179/stoneyreef/church6.jpg
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb179/stoneyreef/church5.jpg

New less is more design?

[rej]

just my opinion - don't build that design.

please hire a designer for this. have them sketch a couple of designs for you.
paying for professional work gets you - professional results.
never skimp on design. it is what sets you apart from others. anyone can run a cnc. well, most can.
email jamie oxenham or sign amigo (do a google search for them)
you might spend a 100.00 or so, but worth every penny. they can even build the vector files