back to chair making...

[Ajcoholic]

So, I have slightly altered the chair design I built a pair of, for my wife and I. Small changes, but I think it looks more proportioned.

I have a set of 6 to make and a table, for a long standing customer of mine. By hand (cutting all parts on the band saw, then sanding on edge sander, then fitting the leg joints, etc, this design took about 4 hours per chair.

I made files to cut out the legs, seat, foot rest and crest rail on the SHopbot. The only thing I do afterwards is taper the other two sides of the legs (easily done on the table saw) and rout a few edges with the hand router to allow the legs to fit tight in the sockets.

I can now make these chairs in 2 hours per unit. About one hour for cnc machine time (30 minutes to shape the seat, and about 30 more minutes for the rest of the parts including set up, cut time and bit changes).

So, I can charge less per unit, and still make more per hour - and have much more chance of making a sale due to the lower selling cost.

If anyone is interested, I will be selling these in solid birch, stained and lacquered, for $325 per chair. Based on $80 for materials and my shop rate at $60/hour.

I made one today just to test my cut files. I have widened the seat slightly, and gave the seat a slight back angle as well, and angled the crest rail back a wee bit more than the originals.

AJC

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_0121.jpg
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_0122.jpg
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_0120.jpg

[Ajcoholic]

To get the fit of the legs to seat, and foot rest to legs very tight, I cut a set and measured the clearances (they were too loose initially). I redid the drawing to add the difference, and the following cut had the legs fitting very precisely.

The cnc is a huge asset for this type of work. HUGE!

AJC

PS, I also stalled out my 4hp HSD spindle today. Seems trying to take a 1.75" cut in one pass, with a 1/2" spiral bit in hard birch isn't a good idea... ;)

[gene]

how did you figure out that a 1.75 deep with a 1/2" cutter in a single pass isnt a good idea? LOL. just kidding, They look great , very modern looking

[khaos]

So AJ. I love the chair you made for your wife but I think the men need a different seat. Perhaps this ergonomic one used for event in kilts. ;)

[Ajcoholic]

how did you figure out that a 1.75 deep with a 1/2" cutter in a single pass isnt a good idea? LOL. just kidding, They look great , very modern looking

On one of my files I forgot to increase the # of passes... :)

The thing is, it actually cut out most of one back leg, and started on the other one before it stalled. I was using a down spiral, if I was using an up I bet it would have made it! I think the chips packing down helped to bog it down. But, like I said it was a mistake. I did the files late the other evening after working late.

AJC

[Ajcoholic]

Ill take a shot today of the parts (the chair in the above pics is not glued yet).

Both back legs have a mortise on one side, and the front, the front legs on three sides along with the notch for the foot rest. All done on the router cutting from the side profile.

The more I fool with the machine, the more I get comfortable with it, and see how it will (as I had hoped) allow my one man shop to both increase my productivity, and allow my selling price to drop, and my profits to increase at the same time. All that with keeping the quality to an even higher standard!

There certainly IS room for a small cnc router in a custom furniture business...

AJC

[Ajcoholic]

here is the sample, ready to take to the customer. I still cannot believe how quick I cut it out, and how much time the Shopbot will save me :)

Even after 3 months now I am still in awe at this thing.

The second pic is beside another of my stools I make (turn the legs on the copy lathe). I used to make the seat flat. Now I have to redo it so the seat has a contour as well.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_0129.jpg
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_0130.jpg

[myxpykalix]

Andrew you do some real nice work:D

[Ajcoholic]

Andrew you do some real nice work:D

Thanks Jack... :)

I forgot to post a few pics of the parts... I do have a few small edges to radius with a rasp. But that took literally a few minutes.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_0125.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_0126.jpg

[khalid]

Looks cool Andrew. The price is too much for a single chair..You are lucky having rich purchaser in your community..:D:D

[Ajcoholic]

Looks cool Andrew. The price is too much for a single chair..You are lucky having rich purchaser in your community..:D:D

It is not expensive relative to what is available retail, for a solid north American made hardwood chair. You can buy a lot of garbage here, as well, for 60 or 80 dollars made of wood I cannot even identify, imported from China, etc.

What I build is made to last a lifetime. So it's a bargain. People here appreciate that, luckily, which keeps myself and other woodworkers in business

AJC

[wberminio]

Andrew very nice design and great work!

I think your chairs are a bargain at what is available out there.

[Leo van Witsen]

Hi Andrew,
I think its a bargain for good craftmanship.
Leo

[kevin]

Thats what I hate about doing furniture or giving prices even reading some of the coments ITS NOT EXPENSIVE .People are use to puting there furniture togeter with a screw driver
They look good you need a table with it

[khalid]

Andrew, Please don't mind my comments about the prices.. Actually 300 US dollar is a big amount in my country .. Sorry to hurt:(

[Ajcoholic]

Andrew, Please don't mind my comments about the prices.. Actually 300 US dollar is a big amount in my country .. Sorry to hurt:(

No problem. I completely understand your point. Everywhere in the world, the cost of things and the wage people make are vastly different.

Here, in Canada, we have a pretty good standard of living. In my area, there are many people who have good jobs and can afford to buy good quality items.

I have relatives living in Europe, who would have to spend two months' wages for one of my chairs. I understand where you are coming from.

And, I am seldom offended - trust me! :) No problems!

AJC

[Ajcoholic]

Thats what I hate about doing furniture or giving prices even reading some of the coments ITS NOT EXPENSIVE .People are use to puting there furniture togeter with a screw driver
They look good you need a table with it

Kevin, I will be making a table to go with the set.

The customer is a good one of mine, who I have done plenty of work for in the past. And before that, my father did a lot of work for his parents. That is the nice thing around here, most of my work is for people I have known for a while. Benefit of a small community I guess.. :)

AJC

[khaos]

Personally, I love the open clean design. But as I visualize usage I wonder is there enough front to back/side to side stability? I have some 250lb family and without any compression braces on the legs I have some fear. What do you think the safe limit is on the chair. I don't know and would like to get a feel from those here with the experience. It seems that if there were any lateral or leaning that the joint might fail. Can we keep the folks from rocking the chairs back or side to side?

It looks like 1/2" total lip and (dowel/pin/tenon/screw). Are there addl braces that aren't shown in the photos?

[Ajcoholic]

Since the front and rear legs are trapped in there respective lips ( for lack of a better term) the joint which appears to be weak is actually very strong.

Certainly, like every design, there is a compromise between appearance and strength. I build my stuff to take what I consider normal use, not abuse.

On a 24" seat height chair or stool, rocking back isn't an option as your feet aren't on the floor.

I feel in most hardwoods this will stand up long term. No way I'd use pine for instance. Also, if you are a larger person it might be wise to add some supports. But for the customers I'm making these for ( well under 200 lbs even the father) not going to be an issue.

I'm going to design a bar height (30" seat height for a 42" counter) based on these and there will definitely be some stretchers added between the legs.

My customers know I stand behind my product 100% and if anything happens down the road I'm good to repair or replace.

I've done repairs on furniture my father built 35 years ago, and haven't charged the people. How many furniture stores will do that or even have been around for that long? :)

AJC

[myxpykalix]

I've done repairs on furniture my father built 35 years ago, and haven't charged the people. How many furniture stores will do that or even have been around for that long?

I think that is a cool thing to do, and along with the goodwill attached, the word of mouth and extra business will more then make up for the time expended, plus you get to work on something that your father made, you were probably running around his shop playing in the sawdust at the time he was making it! :eek:

whats even cooler is that 30 years from now YOUR son can make repairs on these chairs or fix the ones "Grandpa" made!

[khaos]

Since the front and rear legs are trapped in there respective lips ( for lack of a better term) the joint which appears to be weak is actually very strong.

Certainly, like every design, there is a compromise between appearance and strength. I build my stuff to take what I consider normal use, not abuse.

On a 24" seat height chair or stool, rocking back isn't an option as your feet aren't on the floor.

I feel in most hardwoods this will stand up long term. No way I'd use pine for instance. Also, if you are a larger person it might be wise to add some supports. But for the customers I'm making these for ( well under 200 lbs even the father) not going to be an issue.

I'm going to design a bar height (30" seat height for a 42" counter) based on these and there will definitely be some stretchers added between the legs.

My customers know I stand behind my product 100% and if anything happens down the road I'm good to repair or replace.

I've done repairs on furniture my father built 35 years ago, and haven't charged the people. How many furniture stores will do that or even have been around for that long? :)

AJC

Sounds great. With the complete lack of accountability in the big box stores yours will clearly stand out. And I feel confident that quality over cost is always the way to go. Thanks for the reply.

[Ajcoholic]

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j307/ajcoholic/IMG_0146.jpg

So 6 chairs, and a table just before I took them into the spray room today. Yes, it's a holiday here but that doesnt apply to the self-employed :)

I cut ALL the parts for the chairs on my Buddy, and it took me a fraction of the time as I had anticipated. Parts fit was excellent.

Hope to have the set sprayed by Wednesday for delivery by the week's end.

AJC

[myxpykalix]

Nice looking set....you do good work!

[phil_o]

AJ,

I attended a craft fair this weekend. One dealer had chairs that were a bit different from yours but there are definite similarities. His price per chair is $2850. They are very comfortable.
http://blackwaterwoodworks.com/Prettyboy/page21.html

Phil

[Ajcoholic]

That is more like a Maloof inspired design, with more work for the joinery and spindles, etc.

I sold one of my own "Maloof inspired" rockers a few months ago for $3800. However that rocker took me close to 50 hours for the single chair, and had about $700 worth of walnut in it (retail).

I want to make a set of four Sam Maloof style dining chairs but I will work on cutting and shaping as much as I can on my shopbot. That should save many hours per chair.

Custom chair making is labour intensive when you start incorporating curved lines, intricate joinery etc. The chair I have posted here is relatively simple.