com error, again.

[michael_schwartz]

After 3 months of running trouble free, I had another com error the other day. I also had a $100.00 sheet of material on the table, but I was able to recover the parts.

I really hope the beta version solves this issue once and for all.

I have done everything mentioned on this forum from bare bones XP, to grounding my dust shoe back to my dust collector. I have spent hours cleaning up wiring.

I am running a 1.86ghz core 2 duo, with 4gb of ram, and XP pro. Certainly far above, and beyond what was recommended at the time when I purchased my machine. This happened when cutting through onion skin, so cutting forces would have been very light. I don't think it was loss of steps.

I thought I had solved this. I am out of ideas.

I really doubt a copper wire running through the hose can prevent all occurrences of static discharge. Windows is also notorious for not being 100% reliable. Both are foreseeable problems and what is needed is redundancy.

[Brady Watson]

What are the 1st two parameters of your VR set to? Set them to .4 if they are not already there.

-B

[michael_schwartz]

Thanks. I checked and they were .4

I was cutting 1/2" plywood. I cleaned all the gear racks, and greased everything less than 5 sheets ago.

I just cut a kitchen, with more aggressive feed rates and speeds without any com issues.

[garyc]

Michael...
Your computer specs look OK, but assuming that the comm loss happened while cutting, static is just as likely a cuprit as anything. Static will be generated in any PLASTIC hose used for dust collection. There are a good number of conductive hoses made for this purpose that are much better than the plastic ones made for general (read as non CNC) woodworking use.

The beta software has a much better communication system than the current software. That said, it will not fix anything that is wrong with any system. It will most likely allow those computers that shouldnt be used for control to operate for a while, it may allow us to eliminate the USB hub from the control cable, and it will allow high resolution machines to operate faster. But again, if there is a static or ground loop issue it cannot help.

Here are the soon to be posted computer specs:

ShopBot Computer Requirements: -- You need a PC that is running Windows XP/Vista/Win7 (recommended version: Home Premium/ Business or higher). At minimum: 2 Ghtz Pentium Dual Core, 1.66 Ghtz I3 or equivalent, 1.66 Ghtz Core I5 and dedicated video RAM greater than 512K if using for 3D design.

Control Computer Minimum RAM Requirements: (more is better)

With Win XP:
with SB3.4.xx or 3.5.xx versions alone 512K
with SB3.6.xx alone 1GB (minimum), 2GB (recommended)
If 3D cutting, using Aspire or SB Link 2GB (minimum) (more will perform better)

Vista or Win7:
with 3.6.xx 2GB (minimum)
with3D cutting, Aspire or SB Link 4GB (minimum), 6GB will perform better

Cutting 3D files, adding an Indexer, or using the Control Computer for design work will mandate that you follow the highest recommended specs above.


Graphics display 1024x768 for the shop (this resolution optimally uses screen). For your design computer (if you use a separate computer), a resolution of 1280 x 1024 or higher will work well.

You will need at least 1 USB 2.0 port for the ShopBot USB connection. An additional port is required for a spindle speed controller. This is in addition to any mouse, keyboard, printer or other USB peripherals you may require ports for. You should also have an open USB port to transfer cutting files from the design computer if you will not be networked.

Adobe Reader is required to access the included Help files from ShopBot software, PartWorks and Aspire.

For control use, a “clean install” of the operating system is the best. This ensures that no 3rd party software has been installed that may interrupt the data stream to the ShopBot Controller.

[michael_schwartz]

Can you recommend a particular brand of hose?

I have a vague understanding of ground loops, but I am am not trained as an electrical engineer, or an electrician so
I am not qualified to address this. My electrician didn't have much to say about the subject.

[garyc]

Michael...
I dont know of any brand names offhand, but I see them in virtually every industrial (along with many university and high school) facilities that I have done service calls at. Most are black conductive rubber. In almost all cases they were installed by a mechanical contractor as drops off a spiral wrapped metal pipe collection system.

Please dont think we ShopBotters are alone with the ground loop issues. The National Electical Code (NEC) is being updated due to similar problems with computer controlled or networked equipment all over the country.

Spend some time on any of the "other" CNC forums and you will see that these same issues are prevalent to the industry of CNC rather than just our brand.

[michael_schwartz]

I do have my control box plugged into a dedicated circuit.

My computer, LCD, and USB hub are plugged into another, dedicated circuit.

This is the only thing, I can think of that might qualify as a ground loop.

I do have a second circuit available that shares a common ground with the circuit I use for my control box. I use it for a vacuum motor right now, but I could use it for my UPS.

[garyc]

Michael...
And if your ground potential is different between those 2 circuits (control box and computer), as mine was in the past, it can cause 10 to 15 "lost comm" messages..... PER HOUR! :mad:

If you have these issues in the future, dont spend any time thinking of what is right, use the energy to find what is not right.

Since I started working for ShopBot, and after seeing a number of professionally installed (read as more expensive) dust collection systems, I do not recommend any non conductive hoses be connected to CNC machines. This, of course, is a change from my previous position(s). Metal ducting and a length of conductive dust hose will virtually eliminate static as an issue. Considering the lost time that has been caused by static in just the machines I have visited, its a small price to pay.

[michael_schwartz]

I will try the conductive hose. I don't know if ShopBot has considered selling this as an accessory. I would buy it direct from, SB if it were available.

A quick google search didn't turn up a lot of information, so I will need to do some research.

The main duct line that runs to the bot, is metal.

[ron_moorehead]

I have a question as we are talking about dust collectors and hoses here I am just finishing installing a new cyclone dust collector system with all metal ducting. I am getting down to installing the hose to the shopbot and was wondering about a ground wire in the hose. I bought a system and the hose from Oneida. About a ground wire I plan on attaching it to the metal duct at one end what about he end at the shopbot were should it be attached and should the copper wire be ran on the inside of the hose or the outside of the hose . I also plan on grounding the copper wire that is imbedded in the hose to the metal duct work. Any ideas. Thanks.

The hose I got:

http://www.oneida-air.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=SCOLLECT8&CatId={418DE3CD-BD6F-4D57-8A56-44C817778904}

By the way something that helped with my system was to buy a UPS for the computer to isolate it from grounds and I also found that plugging in the USB hub power supply to the wall 120VAC was causing me problems so I removed the power supply and it did not make any difference in the communication speed to the control box.

[paul_z]

Ron,

I would strongly recommend against using the spiral wire that is in the hose for two reasons:

1. It is not directly exposed to the source of the static

2. It is an inductor and can make the results of a discharge even worse

Run a seperate piece of wire inside the hose or use conductive hose.

Paul Z

[jerry_stanek]

When I first got my PRS standard I bought a dust collector and didn't have a plan for the duct work. I was at Home Depot and happened to see some 4 inch aluminum dryer vent and figured what the heck I need something to get that machine up and cutting so I bought it. It has worked out so well that I am still using it no static and it is holding up after 3 years.

[michael_schwartz]

http://www.masterduct.com/store/products_display_property.asp?search=yes&searchText=15

Would something like this be appropriate?

[kevin]

Micheal

I bought mine at Lee Valley it has a wire in it .I grounded the computer to the frame .

I also found out the hard way you need a serios computer to run the Shopbot .Nice to see Shopbot owning up to this

I know someone is going to say I.am using a 486 .The bottom line is the faster the machine goes so does the computer

This is the kind of stuff that can drive you nuts

[adrianm]

I'd hardly call those specs serious computing power. PC's to that level have been around for donkeys years. You still don't need anything that costs more than a few quid from a refurbishment store to run the controller software.

Aspire is a different matter of course.

[jerry_stanek]

I am running mine on a refurbished HP with 2 gig of ram and a pentium cpu with no problems. I have an older computer with 1.5 gigs ram that will run it also. In fact I just ran a job on the old machine this weekend just to see if it still has it. I loaded the beta software just to see what it would do and didn't have one problem.

[kevin]

[QUOTE=kevin;130543]Micheal

I know someone is going to say I.am using a 486 .The bottom line is the faster the machine goes so does the computer


Rest my case

[kevin]

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2886154&sku=B69-0568&cm_re=Homepage-_-Spot%2007-_-CatId_13_B69-0568

A new computer with some b**ls is cheap .Its what I call stupid cheap I run a bussiness the last thing I want to worry about is computer problems

I alway made my own computer going back to the early 90's

[jerry_stanek]

I never said it was a 486 both are Pentiom 4's but both are old and I do not have any lost comm errors. Maybe it is the newer computer that you are using that is running a newer version of Windows. Both my machines are running XP pro with no service packs installed no internet and no Antivirus. so there are no programs that try to update or take over the computer when I am cutting. Running SB3 is the only thing these units do and they do very well.

[kevin]

What I.am saying is this can be a problem .But when I bought my machine 3 years ago they said no problem with a laptop I had lots of problems ..Its frustrating when I see these post I try to share my experince it worked for me .How do you measure static electricty? I mean no offence or step on toes

[michael_schwartz]

I could upgrade my control PC but given that I have run for 20-30+ hours with it at full speed before this occurrence I am hesitant to do so.

The one thing that has changed recently is that I cleaned out the filter for my cyclone. It had become badly clogged, with MDF dust from when I milled my plenum so I have been running with poor airflow for the last 15-20 hours. This could have excited any potential grounding issues that had been lurking.

[adrianm]

I've always been surprised that I don't suffer from any lost comm static errors on my 'Bot given that I cut 3/4" MDF pretty much all the time.

I had a think about how my bot is earthed and how it might be different to most and the only thing I came up with is where the earths are.

My 'Bot frame is earthed to a 4 foot copper spike just outside the workshop. the dust collector frame, motor and control computer are earthed via the earth line on the mains power which terminates over 100 feet away from where the first copper spike is.

No idea if that makes any difference at all as I only tend to learn about a subject when I have problems so I'm pretty clueless with the issue of static! Maybe it will ring a bell and help someone with problems though.