Illuminated Lobby Signs

[wcsg]

Here are a few illuminated lobby signs that I did recently. Usually I would do these out of Tri-Phosphor CCFL lamp grids to light them up. But since I had to travel about two hours away to install these I thought I'd use LEDs instead that way I don't have to risk any kind of breakage during travel.

The trick to LEDs is choosing the right modules. These particular LEDs have been tested in The Sign Syndicate's (http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/forums/index.php?app=uportal) "Project Tighty Whitey (http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/forums/index.php?/topic/5053-project-tighty-whitey-year-3-4-public-thread/)". A test where we specifically test every mid sized LED in the market, these tests are the only ones out specific for the electric sign trade.

These particular modules are made by AA LED's, the Blazer HD's. The chips are made from Epistar and the modules are Constant Current. Constant Current are the kinds of LEDs you want to use, not the cheap an inexpensive Constant Voltage.

In our tests so far for these modules that are just under 20k hours, they have yet to have any degradation in light. Their also one of the brightest LEDs in their class and they outshine all the major MFG's the normal supply houses stock. Their TRULY that scary!

http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/miscstuff/jobs/SHOPBOT%20Luckys/IMH11.jpg




http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/miscstuff/jobs/SHOPBOT%20Luckys/IMH12.jpg


http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/miscstuff/jobs/SHOPBOT%20Luckys/DSC_0350.jpg

Amazingly I don't have any pre finished shots to offer for this job, but these are my usual hand brushed aluminum panels that we brake a 1" return and clear coat with a Matthews Paint (PPG). The push thru's are 1/2" clear acrylic letters with vinyl graphic overlays. If you do a search on this site or on the SS you'll find some previous jobs that I've done.

The most important aspect to this job is the right acrylic for diffusing. This particular MFG like most will say to not use these to directly backlight a surface below 3". This spacing here is 2" just like i use for CCFL lamps but we used a specific LD white lens behind to diffuse the light, even AA LED was amazed that we used their LEDs with no hotspotting below their spec.

The sign is powered by Axiom LED Power Supplies, one of the best power supplies in the market, also in our testing which we have 26 of them operating since 2008 at just under 30k hours without one failure. This is one power supply that The Sign Syndicate (http://www.thesignsyndicate.com) just recently started distributing.

If you want to see more works like this or network with fellow electric sign tradesmen and women I suggest stopping by The Sign Syndicate.com (http://www.thesignsyndicate.com)

[joe]

Wow Erik,

That some high tech, high dollar lighting. Not sure that's the way I go about that kind of work.

I don't give a hoot about high output or how long the LED will last. To date I haven't replaced a single one. And it's been years. Too much light is as bad as no light at all. You gotta have a sence of proportion about this stuff. It's like the kid who has a boom box in his car. It's only good if it's making everyone on the block hate him.

On the job coming up we are using the GE modules. They make two kinds but Sloan has been our regular LED. Both sell for about $3 a foot. The job coming up is also exterior, installed a couple of story's high. Our last ones came down due to hail. The lights were fine. Not to worry the GE people have an excellent warranty. I never worry about that.

Here are a couple of examples.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e115/jcrumley1/Rw-lightsFrontcopy.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e115/jcrumley1/Reserve2.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e115/jcrumley1/Reservesprayingletters-1.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e115/jcrumley1/Reserveronwithcutoffsaw.jpg

One of the big advantages for boys like us, we can carve HDU, giving it beautiful detail, that the guys making can signs can't do. I can easily take a job away from these guys by showing a few creative examples.

I seldom post electrical stuff on this forum because no one does that kind of work over here. Stuff like what I'm showing ove here has some interest but strait and bent neon doesn't. We have a full neon plant in the shop that never slows down. But it's a neon.

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com

[bobmoore]

I always enjoy seeing your postings Eric. Always well researched and clearly communicated. I havn't done any LED yet but one of these days maybe.
Bob

[wcsg]

You might not care about light output, but I would never use Sloan or GE or any other "value" line because the $ spent for what you get in return is a joke.

You also might not have had to replace an LED yet because of a catastrophic failure, but I can guarantee your light choice LED is degrading pretty fast.

My signs come with a 5 year electrical warranty and guarantee the light output will not degrade below 70% from the original light output, in that time.

BTW, it's not a good idea to to enclose the LED modules that way and trap the heat. You should at least attach the modules to an aluminum backing to dissipate the heat. Like I said, you may not be replacing modules but your LEDs will degrade fast. If our signs were put up side by side and we take a light meter to them at the start to, say a year or two down the road someone would be replacing modules, or in your case splitting the letters or making all new ones.

Like any computer chip, LEDs, they need to stay cool, that's the key to longevity and keeping the light brighter, longer overtime.

Not only do you need to have beautiful curves for a sign to be impressive and look nice, but you need to mix it in cooing too, to make it last overtime. That's what keeps the client happy with the money they spent.

Any car can look nice, but it's important to have a good engine that lasts a long time before you have to tear it out and replace it.


Thanks for sharing Joe

[joe]

We're good to go over here. I'm staying with the big boys. If I ever have a problem I can get instant delivery on a new product. We use Reece Sign Supply.

There's lots of smoke and hooey going on with the short life LED's burn outs. Not to mention that shaky GE stuff.

[wcsg]

One of the big advantages for boys like us, we can carve HDU, giving it beautiful detail, that the guys making can signs can't do. I can easily take a job away from these guys by showing a few creative examples.



Forgot to add.


Joe, I don't know what sign guys you have in your neck of the woods but the "guys making cans" are the same guys who build the super sign structures so that later people like yourself, can later attach your "beautiful" HDU letters to them. The "Can" guys are tradesmen, of many skills and that also includes fabricating HDU letters. They can fabricate metal structures AND apply gold leaf too if needed. Just take a trip into Las Vegas or Disneyland!

http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/forums/uploads/1175446428/gallery_1049_57_369346.jpg

http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/forums/uploads/1283105978/gallery_3649_126_2443.jpg


http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/forums/uploads/1283105978/gallery_3649_126_2129.jpg


http://www.thesignsyndicate.com/forums/uploads/gallery/album_151/gallery_5089_151_1301321.jpg

Lastly....last I looked this was a "Sign" forum in a CNC ShopBot site, which is what I own and displaying that there is more you can do by utilizing it with electric lighting components and not closing yourself off to just carving letters out of foam. There is also a need to discuss "proper" component choice in a sign forum, but most importantly something that hasn't been hit on is installation of lighting components, proper utilization means giving your client or sign user more for their money.

So, I don't know what you expect to "take away" from anyone. I'm sort of surprised with that attitude and thinking.

One thing I would never do is take the word of a manufacturer or supplier selling a product like LEDs. You need to test it yourself and understand what it does and what it cannot do in your application of intended use. We live in the day and age where it's a race to the bottom. If you have an issue one year down the road with a few modules you won't just simply be replacing a few modules, instead you'll be needing to rip out everything you have installed and starting all over because the new 2.0 version of what you'll be replacing won't match the 1.8v

The big boys that you use aren't the big boys of technology or because they build quality, their only big because they got millions and millions of our tax dollars from the DOE for their own R&D, and they spend a lot of it on advertising and bullying in the market place.

It's so nice to live in a age where our government takes from Peter to give to Paul, and THEY decide who the winners and losers are.

Household names aren't always the best or nor can they do what you expect/want. Hense the Shopbot v Multicam. These days the little guys can outperform the "Big Boys", you just have to look, touch, and test.