Never built a cabinet before!

[crash5050]

Now, I have a PRS Standard, and have effectivley opened a cabinet shop. The question is which software do I use to design, nest and cut?

I have been using CNC for over 3 years just piddling with Aspire, doing carvings and such.


David

[gene]

Download the free trial version of cabinet parts pro that Ryan at shopbot sells. I have been using it for years and it does very good once you get the program set up. Very easy to learn , very easy to set up and very fast to build the cabinet boxes once you cut them. for the money you will not beat it. if you need help setting up the program i can help you with that also. Gene

[crash5050]

You recommend CPP over hte Ecabs Shopbot link?
I do like the price difference.

David

[bruce_taylor]

I have played with lots of programs have CPP and I prefer to designs my own parts in a program like aspire, partworks etc.. I use artcam alot so I am most comfortable with it. I do all custom work so it's a little different each time and I can design it pretty fast and know exactly what I'm cutting. I have been building cabinets long before the cnc so laying them out is second nature, alot if parts repeat themselves so it goes pretty quick. When I used plug in play programs if you have the setting no dialed in exactly you can destroy alot of plywood quickly. I know alot of people use software with success but I haven't had alot of success with CPP, I may try the link in the future but the learning curve will take some time which I don't have right now, I did cut about 20 sheets into cabinet parts today with no problem and will cut another 20-30 sheets tomorrow. I don't think the software will make you a cabinet maker if you don't understand it really well.

[michael_schwartz]

There is a lot more to cabinetmaking than cutting, and edge banding parts. The project I am working on now, involved about 2-3 days of CNC time which is rather insignificant since I have invested over a month of shop time in the job.

I really like E-Cabinets. The way the SB-Link automates toolpathing makes me want to own a Thermwood router. That is a bit of a pipe dream right now but maybe I will make that happen someday.

The only problem I have had involves an issue with the manual tool change routine, in the SB control software. According to ShopBot I am the only person who has had this problem. I still haven't quite figured this out but I think I may have found a workaround. I have been too busy to really explore this further.

My advice is to

Download E-cabinet systems. It is free so you have nothing to loose. Subscribe to the training videos. Start using it for layout, and design work. There is a moderate learning curve. It is more difficult to learn than aspire, but stick with it and after watching the training videos it will start to make sense.

Use CPP to cut boxes at first while you learn. When you know this is something you want to do, and you gain some experience I would buy the SB link.

If your going to cut nested parts vaccume hold down is the only way to go.

[crash5050]

Since I don't have 3 phase power, I am going to have to use some creative ways to do the hold downs. 2 or 3 shop vacs or something.

I am not looking to go into mass production here. I am looking to do a few jobs here and there to supplement my military retirement. I plan on marketing my services as a boutique service. I don't plan on competing with the only cabinet shop down the road, he imports his drawers and doors from china. I intend to build everything in my shop, and charge out the butt for it. If they don't want to pay, they can go down the street or to Lowes and buy that stuff, then go again in a few years and buy it again.

I make enough off my homemad router to sustain, signs and trinkets and such. But, when people retire, they die. It is a proven fact, I want to have a purpose in life, pursuing perfection, for a price of course, will give me that purpose. I want to live!

[michael_schwartz]

Since I don't have 3 phase power, I am going to have to use some creative ways to do the hold downs. 2 or 3 shop vacs or something.


The central vaccume style replacement motors are the way to go. They cost less than 1/2 the price of a single Fein Turbo Vac, and they preform better.

I run two Lighthouse 6765-13 motors and I have been able to hold pretty much anything I want. Cabinet sized parts are no problem. I have done 4x5 sheets of drawer parts without using the zone valves on my table. I do cut with an onion skin pass, but I cut completely through the parts at the end.

I would strongly recommend using 240v motors since they are more efficient. However I will admit that I am using the 110v versions, because I did not want to run a new circuit for various reasons. This limited my system to 2 motors, that I run on independent 20 amp circuits.

2 definitely works. I hear 4 are amazing.

Take a look at this if you haven't come across it already.

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11813

[crash5050]

I don't think I am smart enough to build that! Maybe I can get Gary to come over and help out.

[bruce_taylor]

David,
I know you can put it together, its really not that hard if you can figure out how to make your cnc work most of the other stuff if easy in comparison and you have a great forum as a resource. I hear what your saying about retiring and just fading away, what you want to do sound reasonable just don't be fooled about while you think your charging out the butt for it you can easily go the wrong way and loose your ass, most people don't realize the work involved in custom production and you will earn every dollar you bring in. Good luck !!!

[kevin]

Making cabinets or built ins are tricky .There a lot of things that can go wrong ,It take carefull planing as Bruce said you'll earn every cent
I use CPP only because I treat it as a opreration.I think some people try a one button solution without the understanding what there doing

I can do about 30 sheets a day .I'am comfortable I'll try the link soon

[nat_wheatley]

If you're doing cabinets with any degree of frequency, get E-cabinets and the SB link, you won't regret it.

[dlcw]

David,

When I got my PRSAlpha in 2009 I jumped right in to eCabinets. There is a learning curve you have to get up but Thermwood has great tutorial videos you can subscribe to. Yes the SBLink is pricey but you can do some pretty cool stuff in eCabinets and just cut it on the Shopbot. I only wish Thermwood would fix some of the SBLink bugs and put out a new release soon.

I've done everything from kitchen/bathroom cabinets and vanities to hutches and bookcases to a recently completed coffee table. eCabs is pretty versatile once you figure out what the different parameters do. Go to the eCabs forum and look at some of the incredible stuff people have done with the program. Another nice feature of eCabs is that it can be used as a sales tool (done it many times) where you can design something and show the client in 3D what the cabinets and room will look like when done.

I don't hae experience with CPP so can't offer anything there.

[twelchPTM]

I feel the need to interject just one opinion here, before you can truely understand any of it you should first build at leats one cabinet the old fashioned way. I know that the software can do alot for the design process but to really understand the product it helps to have an intimate experience. I built cabinets and display fixture for a long time, the first company I worked for that pretty much taught me the trade had a rule...no cnc w/o at least 3 months building product, and the designers had to work every step of the process 1 week per "station" before they ever got into the office.

[dlcw]

I feel the need to interject just one opinion here, before you can truely understand any of it you should first build at leats one cabinet the old fashioned way. I know that the software can do alot for the design process but to really understand the product it helps to have an intimate experience. I built cabinets and display fixture for a long time, the first company I worked for that pretty much taught me the trade had a rule...no cnc w/o at least 3 months building product, and the designers had to work every step of the process 1 week per "station" before they ever got into the office.

That is some excellent advice. First understand what it is all about. understand the materials, the process and the finished product. Design and build a cabinet with a typical joinery method like screws and see what the process is and what the final outcome looks like. Then try something like dowel joinery where you drill all the holes and get everything lined up. Then try M&T joinery using a hand router to cut the mortises and the table saw to cut the tenons.

All of this will help you appreciate what technology can do but at the same time give you a good grounding in woodworking.

[twelchPTM]

The day I really learned to appreciate the world of automation... I had just started working for a retail framing company that was just starting to get into larger fixtures. I was charged with building a shelving unit for a retailer who sold high end bean bag chairs. The shelf was spec out to be 10'H x 4'W x 16"D w/shelves every 12" the center shelf had bi-pass doors made from 1/8" smoked acrylic. The entire unit was built from 1.5" thick MCP. Every panel was cut on a table saw that had no scoring blade (score cut flip panel then through cut). If I wasn't wiped out by this point the unit was speced to be assembled using cam's and locks! Not to difficult when ataching the shelves to the first side but when it came time to put the last side on 86 cams had to fall into the corresponding locks and all the holes where drilled using a two head minifix jig.

[curtiss]

Are some parts of the cabinet still best cut with jigs rather than on the bot ?

Say the hinge locations in the doors ?

[bleeth]

"Hinge", like "cabinet" covers a lot of territory.
Eurohinges in common use on kitchens, etc can have the door part drilled on any drill press although there are specialty presses for them as well.

[Ajcoholic]

That is some excellent advice. First understand what it is all about. understand the materials, the process and the finished product. Design and build a cabinet with a typical joinery method like screws and see what the process is and what the final outcome looks like. Then try something like dowel joinery where you drill all the holes and get everything lined up. Then try M&T joinery using a hand router to cut the mortises and the table saw to cut the tenons.

All of this will help you appreciate what technology can do but at the same time give you a good grounding in woodworking.

I whole-heartedly agree! Having sophisticated equipment doesnt make you a woodworker, anymore than borrowing my wife's stethescope makes me a doctor :)

In order to design and manufacture a quality product, you really need to understand why certain joints are made, why different methods/fasteners/adhesives/etc are used and where, and a whole lot more stuff.

A good start is reading as much practical info as possible (college woodworking texts, trade mags, etc) and studying the ways various companies manufacture their product. There is a lot of excellent cabinets being made today, and also a whole lot of garbage. LEarn what makes a good, sound cabinet and take it from there.

AJC

[dlcw]

Folks need to remember that a CNC is just another tool in the shop like a jointer, planer or tablesaw. If used properly and in the right context it can do great things just like all the other tools.

When building fine furniture I still use hand tools (planes, chisels, hand saws, etc.) to fine fit joinery and get exact fittings. Power tools just can't do the job in many cases. Besides, when I work with hand tools I can take off my hearing protection and listen to music, which can be very relaxing. A lot of benefits with hand tools all around. But again, hand tools are just another tool in the shop and if used properly can do some pretty amazing things.

[crash5050]

I tried using a hand tool the other day, I wanted to just cut a board, it needed to be square. I took out my "square, and drew a line. Cut the board. Results, not square. I may be in the wrong business....

Ok, not really a business, it started out as a hobby (remote control airplanes) then I decided there has got to be a better way than cutting foam with a hobby knife......

Now, I think it has escalated from interest, to hobby, to habit, now to "Problem" stage. I need to find a 10 Step CNC Program...

David

[bleeth]

Working with wood is neither a hobby nor a business. It is an obsession.
Whatever you do in life that takes skill never comes out right the first time unless it is so simple a cave man could do it.
Try to cut the board square ten or twenty more times and then tell us what you did. If that seems like too much to do then give it up now!!
That being said learning to work with a cnc is the same in many ways in that you will make lots of mistakes in the learning curve but different as there are lots of guys who turn out some pretty nice things but can't draw or cut a straight line by hand.
As a lifelong carpenter I believe that one should have a good knowledge of woodworking if you are going to get a cnc for woodworking purposes.
Quite a bit of knowledge can come from publications like fine woodworking, modern woodworker, etc, but nothing beats hands on experience from trial and error.

[crash5050]

I am not sure I mentioned that I built a CNC machine a couple of years ago, it is 2 feet by 4 feet. I can do some amazing stuff with that one, signs and plaques and such. I bought the bot to "expand" my horizons and be able to cut full sheets. Initially I wanted to cut flat pack stuff, so the customer could build it, like you get at the big box stores, only made from real wood.

Now, after a bit of Market research, I find that there is only one Cabinet shop in town, and they build by hand. I have a couple of choices.

1. I can walk in there and ask them how I can make thier lives easier with m y bot, or I can compete. I really don't want to compete, but I really don't want to mass produce the stuff that you see in the new housing. I want to make full wall entertainment centers, tv stands, closet design, etc. A niche Market.

I actually wrote a business plan for a cabinet shop. If anybody wnats to review it and possibly give me some good numbers to work from, I woild be willing to send it to them for review.