Log slice humidity?

[sbd1]

My neighbor recently chopped down a large spruce tree & I managed to cutoff a couple of slices with nice growth rings.

I'm not exactly sure what I'm going to make with them yet, but I was hoping to work with them on the Bot & possibly seal them with epoxy (hoping that will keep them from cracking & give me a nice finish). I won't be able to get to them soon so I wanted to ask your advice on storing them. It can get pretty dry up here in the winter.

They are about 5" thick & 27" diameter & I do not have a moisture meter. Should I just place them in a garbage bag with a damp rag?

Thanks

[gerryv]

Darren, there is no doubt that you will get some good input here but be sure to get on WoodWeb as well as it's also very highly respected, very active and populated by a large number of hardwood and softwood experts, whether raw processors, kiln operators, sawyers, or makers of every type - Krenov to CNC. It also has an excellent database of "rated" discussions past and current.

[feinddj]

If you want to preserve these logs without cracking, well, good luck. The reason wood cracks is because of differentials in the moisture content of the cells. Wood loses moisture on a cut end faster than a side. To prevent the majority of the cracks, seal the ends of the log with Anchor seal ( a liquid wax type product) which will slow down the process. Cutting the pieces into slabs and sealing will help more. The rule about air drying is 1 year plus a year for each inch in thickness. ie. a 1 inch piece will take two years to dry under optimal conditions.

Covering the wood with rags, sawdust, or plastic may actually cause mold growth. The water simply ends up on the surface of the log, not away from it. This can be desirable but if its not don't wrap it up too tightly.

David

[Ajcoholic]

The 1 yr per inch is a rule for regular sliced lumber.

When you have a slab, ie, a slice of a log it doesnt hold. Firstly, the end grain (which in this case is the whole face) gives off moisture very rapidly. It is nearly impossible to dry a slab that is the entire circumference of a tree without some major cracking. If you put it into a bag, youre probably going to see mold and discoloration occur. You cant seal wet wood, or youll have the same issues.

Best thing IMO is to let it dry, stickered and in a place where it is not getting any direct heat (like next to a heater or in the sun, etc). Deal with the checks & cracks afterwards.

You can try and soak treat with the PEG stuff, but it is very waxy and has its own set of issues (fooled a bit with that stuff years ago).

AJC

[Brian Harnett]

Spruce has a high sap content and from the picture already has cracks most spruce I get has center cracks in the tree.

As said the bag will give a lot of mold spruce and pine have this issue because of the high sap content, dissolved boric acid in hot water applied to the wood will cut down the mold issue considerably, I do that for wood I mill in the spring though summer when the majority of sap is flowing.

Sticker with full air circulation.

A full round will crack most of the time no matter what you do.

[kurt_rose]

I'd seal it with wax or even a latex paint. With a piece like this the problem is the pith of the log (the center) It will start cracking from there and is imposable to stop especially in spruce. Just use it as a design feature. Add some butterflies to stabilize the cracks. Let it be what it wants to. I do a lot of turning and some of my best pieces are cracked and warped. Just act like that's the look you were going for.:D

[myxpykalix]

I'd start like they say with anchorseal on the faces of the blank. I'm not sure about covering the bark because i don't know how you'd remove it from the bark when you wanted to.

Do a search for "turning live edge bowls" and there should be some info on how to preserve the bark from falling off and how to hollow the insides out.

I would make a nice candy dish or nut bowl out of it. I have a beautiful hollowed out log slice made into a bowl complete with nutcracker holders in the center. I will find it and take a picture. I've been out of town, got back last nite and someone broke into my van so i have to deal with that.:mad:

I went and found the bowl and took some pictures. I didn't make this, it has been in the family for around 100 years that i can account for. We have never done anything to it for finishing other then wipe it out and clean the nutshells, maybe a damp rag once in a while but it looks as if it has some type of waxy coating on it even after all this time? And all the bark is still intact.

You can see the nutcracker holder in the center is part of the bowl all one piece and it looks like carving rings where they hollowed it out on a lathe.
Whatever they did, they did it right.

[kurt_rose]

The bark has the best chance of staying on if it's cut in the winter time when the sap is low in the tree. If cut in the summer the bark probably won't say on.

[khaos]

The bark has the best chance of staying on if it's cut in the winter time when the sap is low in the tree. If cut in the summer the bark probably won't say on.

I have to ditto this live edge info! I also agree that keeping those pieces from splitting will be an effort. 5" is a 5yr dry time. Just anchorseal and put them away in your garage 'find' them later. If you can get a longer piece from him youd have a better chance keeping the checks out.

Wish we all had better news.

[sbd1]

Thanks for all your feedback guys. I've never worked with a log slice before but I really admire seeing the growth rings in them. These ones are not cracked yet, but there are some streaks that look like craacks in the pics. I didn't know there was this much to working with these actually. I'll have to check out the WoodWeb forum.

Thanks for the pics of that awesome bowl Jack. Sorry to hear about your vehicle.

[hespj]

I don't think anybody's mentioned the big problem here - wood shrinks on the tangent more than it does radially. When a log has been processed into planks the planks have some ability to bend (cup) when this happens, but a fully round log has nowhere to go and will almost inevitably end up with radial splits.

John

[sbd1]

Wow, lots more to consider than I originally thought. What do you think would happen if I machined them right away & then encased them in a thick epoxy finish (before they dry)? As long as I totally sealed them wouldn't they remain intact with the same moisture content, or would they still shift? Just wondering if anyone's done this before.

[Ajcoholic]

Wow, lots more to consider than I originally thought. What do you think would happen if I machined them right away & then encased them in a thick epoxy finish (before they dry)? As long as I totally sealed them wouldn't they remain intact with the same moisture content, or would they still shift? Just wondering if anyone's done this before.

Won't work...

[danhamm]

Cut them in half, dry them to 6% then glue the halves back together.

[genek]

Go to lowes or home depot... Get some wet lock or a paint that is used to seal block in basements.. Coat both ends do not coat the outside... Of the log... It will take five years to dry... Place it in a bag of saw dust.. Change every month with fresh.. This will help to dry it without it cracking...
When i turn bowls out of wet or fresh cut wood. I place the bowls in a brown paper bag and fill it full of fresh saw dust each week i take it out and change the saw dust... So far i have only lost one bowl...

[danhamm]

Eugene, your making bowls out of spruce, and its taking 5 years each... and they are not cracking.

[genek]

not making bowls out of spruce... i make them out of walnut, maple, cherry, and other hard woods.. and it does not take five years for them to dry... when they are turned the walls etc is about 3/8 inch thick or less, so drying time in bag is about two and a half months.. most start out fresh cut or with high enough water content that when i am turning they sling out water..

[kurt_rose]

I know what you speak of. I have a powermatic 3520 that I have to keep the bed well waxed your it's rusted even before I finish a bowl.

[genek]

wax is a good thing for bare metal power tools table saws, planer etc... stops the sweat from rusting things also... I use canning wax that I get at the local Krogers... rub it on and then buff it to a good slick finish.

[Ajcoholic]

Guys,
The thing is, as was stated previously... you cannot dry a full slab without some checking. Since the majority of the drying/shrinking is tangentially (in line with the circumference of the growth rings) the further out you go from the pith, the more the wood will want to shrink - which causes the spits from the bark inwards.

This is ALMOST impossible to prevent. Drying slowly wont do it. Might make a lot of little checks VS a few large ones, but it will still check.

The only way is to soak the slab in some sort of preserving solution, like the PEG stuff, that displaces the water, and fills the cell walls with something else that wont evaporate, thus allowing the slab to stabilize without checks. But it is a PITA to do, I have done it.

WHen you cut a section of a tree, and turn it, you arent using a whole slab (the whole circumference). You are generally using a bowl blank cut from 1/2 of the trunk. And the grain orientation is also different. COmpletely different animal.

And, as I stated previously even though the slab is 5" thick is will NOT take that long to dry, since the end grain is what is on both faces. I have dried slabs of spruce much thicker than that (I was experimenting with wood for guitars) and it will take no where near 5 years... maybe 5 months. Or less. To get to air dry. If you had a 5" thick flat sliced board, sure, 5 years + for a good air dry. But again, this is completely different.

AJC