4G upgrade?

[matt_raymond60]

I am thinking of doing the 4g upgrade since my current driver board may be causing me some issues and Shopbot doesn't repair them anymore but want to make sure that I won't have to make a whole bunch of other upgrades. The $1400 for the upgrade is about all I have to spend on this machine for now.

Currently I am running Windows XP with SB version 3.4.27. My motors are Vextra 2PH, .5 step model number A6497-9412KTG.

Does this sound like it would be a simple plug in upgrade or would I be opening a can of worms? I went and read as much as I could find here on the forum and everyone who has upgraded seems to be happy that they did it.

Thanks for the input and great forum!!!

[jerry_stanek]

Just being able to run the newer version of the shopbot software is a plus. I upgraded a PR and that was like getting a new machine I could only get about 1.79 IPS before the upgrade and after I could run all day at 4.5 IPS without a missed step. The cuts were better also.

[Mark Farris]

Matt,
I have a 2003 PRT with the same motors and am also using XP. I upgraded to the V4g in the last month and it has made a huge difference. The installation was quick and simple (although I made a bonehead error and cost me some frustration) and the results were incredible. You won't believe it is the same machine. I have been cutting between 3 and 4 IPS and jogging at 10 IPS (I didn't lose steps until trying to jog at 13 IPS. My cut quality is much better with my PC router, and I expect it to be even better when I can upgrade to a spindle. I highly recommend it. Don't forget that Shopbot will give you a $250 rebate when you return your old board in the same box the new one came in, they even include a shipping label. Hope this is helpful.

Mark Farris

[matt_raymond60]

Okay, you guys talked me into it, just got off the phone with Shopbot and should have it Monday. Be nice to see what she will do with a new brain!

[jerry_stanek]

You are going to love it. I had the same doubts as you but I would never go back. The only problem I had was getting the proper unit values for the new controller Shopbot gave me what they thought they should be but I had to take their numbers and multiply by 10.

[Brady Watson]

You are going to love it.

X2 to that! You won't even think you are running the same tool!

Get a fresh set of pinions, clean and grease your gear racks. The higher speed 4G puts more stress on the R&P gears.

-B

[matt_raymond60]

New board showed up today. Got it installed in the control box.

I have been a little bit concerned about the computer that I have been using to run it with then remembered that I had a real nice computer hidden away so I dragged it out and did a complete reformat and reload of everything. Still deleting all the factory installed junk off of it so it will only have the operating system and updated Shopbot software on it. Also still need to download the latest software from the website since they neglected to include the CD when they shipped my board to me. Does any one know if there is anything else on that CD that might be worth having?

Working on checking all the wiring and mounting my new router on it. May be up and running tomorrow! Got my fingers crossed hoping for the best!

[Brady Watson]

Download v3.6.44 from the ShopBot main site or direct download here (http://www.shopbottools.com/files/Setup_sb3_6_44.exe) Be 100% SURE to load the firmware via the UI command.

Close SB3 and run the SpeedTest.exe in ProgramFiles\ShopBot\Diagnostic folder. Make sure you plug USB hub into computer & have SB plugged into it.

No - you are not missing anything via CD & as far as I know, SB no longer sends out any digital media via CD anymore...so you got what anyone else would.

You NEED the following hardware:

A computer running XP or better OS, a USB 2.0 hub (if it wasn't included) and I highly recommend you install a PCI to USB 2.0 expansion card for your computer - which MUST be at least 1.5GHz or faster and have 2GB of RAM. Anything less, and you may not get all the performance the upgrade can deliver or may run into problems.

You should have received 4G installation documentation with your board. If not, go look at it here (http://www.shopbotdocs.com)

Keep in mind that if you only got the board (not complete control box), you will be using the PRT MeanWell power supply which is most likely calibrated to 44v. You can effectively increase the voltage up to about 50v, although 48v is a little more reliable on the MeanWell SP300 model (SP500 - up to 52v OK) to gain some upper end speed and performance. If your tool has 3/8" 'Boston' rack & pinion, it's best you keep the speeds below 8 IPS.

If your computer is old & 'questionable' you may have problems. A 3G PRT can practically run off of a calculator...a 4G requires a lot more computer. Also, make sure your dust collection system is properly grounded. Search "bare copper wire" on this board if you are not familiar.

When you load SB3, be sure you pick the right configuration file for your machine. If not prompted at startup, IMMEDIATELY run the UR command, hit enter 3 times and find your tool under Older ShopBots - PRT4G. This will set the correct values for your tool. If you have the original e-stop, the config file may say something like 'OldStop' in the name. If not, and input #4 flashes when you first fire up SB3, run the VN command and change input #4 to a normally open stop switch & you should be OK.

Installation is pretty easy...It takes me about 20min to pull the old board, calibrate the power supply, install the new board and setup the software.

-B

[matt_raymond60]

Thanks for all of the tips, I will make sure that I follow them!

The computer that I decided to use for the upgrade is only a couple of years old and I was using it to run Cabnetware and various other drawing programs on. It has 4g ram and a fast processor, probably overkill for this application. The previous computer I was using is best suited for a door stop in today's world. I am removing all programs and extra "stuff" off of the new computer before loading it up with the Shopbot software.

[matt_raymond60]

How do I tell if I have the 3/8" "Boston" rack and pinions?

[matt_raymond60]

One more question, my card came with a USB hub (not sure if that is the correct term or not) with 3 additional USB ports already plugged into the computer end of the USB cord. Do I need to leave this in place and run another cable from the computer to it or is it okay to just plug the USB cable straight from the computer to control box? I wasn't sure if this hub has a purpose other than just allowing more USB cords to be connected, signal stabilization or something?

[Brady Watson]

Your computer should be fine if you strip it down bare & remove anything going out looking for an update - and any superfluous software like games etc.

Yes - Looks like they gave you an IOGear 2.0 hub. Plug the hub into the computer, and the ShopBot into the hub. It is there to bolster communication - not because they want to be nice & give you a free hub. It is part of the COM system - so make sure it is always in line with the USB going to the control box.

-B

[matt_raymond60]

Got everything all done (I thought) and fired it up after loading the software. When I try to open the Shopbot program I get the message "No active port found". It also says "device driver not installed" so it leads me to believe that I didn't install it correctly. I used the installer program that came up when I clicked on the icon that was there after I copied the downloaded software from the thumbdrive that I used to put it on the bare computer. Is the UI command a different way to load the software? The green light on the USB hub that came with the board is let up green so it appears to be getting some information through it.

Probably something simple but I am only somewhat computer savvy, it doesn't take too much to get me befuddled....

Any more help would be greatly appreciated!

[Brady Watson]

OK - unplug the USB from the computer so the control box is not connected to the computer.

Then navigate to: C:\Program Files (x86)\ShopBot\ShopBot 3\Drivers\ShopBotControllerV201 and run the ShopBotControllerInstaller.exe program to install the device drivers for the 'brain' on the control board.

I would then run UI for the heck of it to make sure it sticks...Seems strange that you were able to connect to run the UI before, but now you can't.

-B

[matt_raymond60]

Being stupid here, what is UI?

[Brady Watson]

Utility Install Control Box Firmware Command in SB3 Control Software.

Just type UI in the yellow command box in SB3 & follow the directions.

-B

[matt_raymond60]

Another issue that I need to address once I get the basics going is my #4 light is red and my #3 light has a vertical yellow line in (looks like a 1).

Going out to give the UI a shot and see if that helps. I tried your other suggestions and didn't have a different result.

Maybe I need to give Shopbot a call in the morning before the shop gets noisy and see what they can walk me through. Hate to keep bugging you all for help...

[matt_raymond60]

Still no luck. Going to get away from it for a while. Once I start getting into port numbers and all that I am over my head quickly. I have 6 USB ports on this machine, I don't have a clue which one is which.

If all else fails I have a computer guy that we use to keep up our office computers, I can probably get him over here to look at it. All of this will probably make a lot more sense to him.....

[matt_raymond60]

I am taking the easy way out, the computer guru will be here in the morning to help set this up. If anyone has any further input that may be of help to him please free to post!

Thank you for all of your help!!!! Hopefully the end is in sight!!

[srwtlc]

Matt, If you happen to have one of these... http://www.iogear.com/support/dm/driver/GUC232A#display... you'll need to install the drivers for that too. They can be downloaded from the link above or should also be in the C:\Program Files\ShopBot\ShopBot 3\Drivers folder.

You may not have one though depending on your setup.

[jerry_stanek]

try reloading the software before you plug the shopbot in to the usb after it is loaded plug usb in and turn the controller on and see if the computer finds the shopbot. You can check your ports through the device manager go to control panel system device manager and ports.

[matt_raymond60]

The computer knows the controller is there somehow because the first time I booted it up it did the old "new device detected" thing but said it couldn't find the driver for it.

Thank you for the help so far, greatly appreciated! This forum is one of the big reasons I bought a bot instead of something else, looked like everyone would be very helpful! And you are!

[Brady Watson]

They usually put a red & white sticker on the USB of the 4G upgrades and new tools that says something to the effect of: STOP! Load USB Drivers 1st!

This is because if you just plug in the USB without first installing the drivers, things get borked.

So...unplug the USB & install the drivers from the directory I posted earlier for your v201/v204 controller card.

This is a super easy upgrade - so don't overthink things, regardless of your computer skills, but it is important to be deliberate and make sure you've got the right stuff in all the right places.

-B

[matt_raymond60]

I thought that I had loaded the drivers before I plugged in the USB cord following your instructions, evidently not. I am very careful to try to follow instructions with these kinds of things (but maybe not so well in other areas of life).

Our computer guru should be here this afternoon to straighten it all out. Still don't know where I went wrong but I am sure that he will have a much better handle on it then I do. Something very simple I am sure if you know what you are doing...

[matt_raymond60]

Life is much better now, the computer guru showed up and after I spent a short time describing the system to him (computer talking to control box, control box talking to servoes etc) he got me loaded up and the mighty Bot breathes again! Didn't really have time to do much with it other than move it a few inches in each direction using commands to make sure it moved as requested. We have our shop floor covered with cabinets in various stages of assembly that I have to spend time working on so we can get them out the door, a good problem to have.

I still need to complete the new router installation and figure out a way to make a new dust collector boot since the Porter Cable is way different than the Dewalt that was tack welded/bolted on when I bought it. I think that I am going to be very pleased with the updated machine! Once I get a few little bugs worked out on the Bot then it will be on to bothering the folks on the Artcam forum while I work on learning that program.

Thank you all once again for your help!!!!

[Brady Watson]

ShopBot sells the correct bolt-on mount for a Porter Cable router. They also sell the correct dust foot and mount that also fits. Call them.

-B

[matt_raymond60]

The second hand, unused router that I bought on here came with the Shopbot mount, it is MUCH better than the homemade one that came with the machine when I bought it. I think that some of my earlier problems with poor cut quality had to do with the homemade mount flexing slightly. I am looking forward to getting completely up and running again to see how the quality of cut compares to before.

I will check on the dust boot. Thanks!

[matt_raymond60]

One more quick question. The previous system setup started the router for both jog and move functions. As of now the router doesn't come on for either function. I am trying to figure if there is someplace that I need to tell it to turn on or not. It is also possible that I plugged the connection in the control box in to the wrong place, any hints on where it should be plugged into on the 4g board?

[Brady Watson]

The router can be 'activated' for internal commands within SB3, and to warm it up. You can enter the command SO,1,1 to set output 1 to on, or go into Keyboard mode (SK or K command) and toggle on Output #1. As long as it is on, the router can be turned on.

You want to make sure that your post processor outputs code to turn the router on & off. Just open up any of your SBPs and see if the SO,1,1 code is present in the first 10 lines of code.

-B

[matt_raymond60]

I was just looking at the connections. The connection that was already wired up that I used has the wire for the relay in the #4 output position. Looking in the book it seems that would activate the router anytime the machine moving. Is this not a good idea?

[Brady Watson]

Oops...Forgot you are upgrading a PRT...So, No - the router will not go on or off under SB3 command unless you bought a relay board in addition to the 4G upgrade board OR you bought an entire RBK control box from ShopBot.

I think the relay board is like $169 or something...

-B

[matt_raymond60]

So the relay that was used before won't work with the 4g board?

[Brady Watson]

http://www.shopbotdocs.com/Relay-Board.html

-B

[matt_raymond60]

Thank you!