Purebond Plywood Questions

[gerryv]

Has/Is anyone using Purebond (zero VOC) plywood by Columbia Forest Prod. to build kitchen cabinets? I'd really appreciate your input on the following:

1. Cost per sheet vs. pre-veneered cabinet grade ply vs. pre-veneered particleboard. We're looking at about 20' of cabinets - uppers and lowers - less a 5' window and a 30" hood. Doesn't need to be exact, just trying to get an idea if it would add closer to $500, $1,500 or $2,500 more to build them.

2. Does Purebond have better value zero VOC equivalents?

Can it be used in the door panels as well in place of solid wood panels to reduce paint cracking. These will be painted cupboards, shaker style with a small, routed bead or bevel on the stiles.

Thanks kindly,
Gerry

[gerryv]

No one build low/no VOC cabinets?

[mark_stief]

Gerald
I use low VOC cabinet grade prefinished maple It's only maybe a buck or two higher than the regular stuff really like the prefinished cuts nice and helps alot time wise for big projects

[michael_schwartz]

I paid a $87.00 per sheet at the time of my last order for 8 sheets of columbia UV-2S B-1 Rotary Birch NAF VC plywood with Pure bond. (UV2S = Pre finished both sides) That included free, rural, delivery.

5 sheets yielded.
13.8 feet of upper cabinets (6 boxes) with 3/4" backs.

1 36" inch sink base. ( I used columbia 1/4" C1, rot maple, prefinished 1 side for the back. This ran about $31.00 per sheet, and was also purebond)

I used less expensive shop birch I had on hand (also purebond) for the two drawer bases, and sprayed the interiors. This ran about $50 per sheet off the top of my head, but I did not buy much quantity.

The cost of plywood, was pretty much insignificant compared to the rest of the job.

The pricing that I get is based on increments of 5 sheets. It is always better to buy wholesale, as the markups found at lumber yards and hardwood retails can be pretty high. Free delivery is also a perk, and they usually sell a whole lot more than just sheet goods (think hardware, solid surface, laminates, edge banding, and anything else you could ever want)


Michael Schwartz -

[kevin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G0A18wSfLQ&feature=related

I'll post my answer later but add between 1,500 to 2,000

[kevin]

I was going to use prefinished plywood but backed off dut to the fact its been around for a couple of years.I've talked to a few salemans on this issue that the laquer could fail maybe 5 years down the road .Still thats your reputation.We spray are interiors with water based polyurthane it adds a day and a half 2 men

We I had a small shop I use foam brushes never stained

The selling feature is you can say no chemincal a green product no gases being released in a closed cabinet

I used silver backed maple at 59 a sheet .Close to getting baltic birth a 45 a sheet

We do a lot of cabinets .I still offer melamine to stay comptive I would love to lose melamine

www.kdunphy.com (http://www.kdunphy.com)

[michael_schwartz]

I've talked to a few salemans on this issue that the laquer could fail maybe 5 years down the road.

www.kdunphy.com (http://www.kdunphy.com)

I have never heard any mention of this.

It would be interesting to know if there has been an actual documented case where a finish failure has occurred with UV coated products where the cause of failure has been determined to be 1. caused by a deficiency or defect in the original product, and 2. a defect or deficiency that is widespread, and not due to an isolated incident, such as a bad batch

I would be hesitant to jump to conclusions as there are many different manufactures of UV coated panel products. Some are not made to the same quality standards as others. I would not be surprised to see this happen with certain substandard imports provided the veneer didn't fall off first. There are also many other factors that could be of consideration such as exposure to incompatible chemicals, improper storage, material handling, or damage that occurs post installation.

[kevin]

The point is Mike they won't stand behind there product .I've seen lots of laquer failure .The beauty of coating it your self is you know what your putting on in my case water based polyuturne I know it won't fail

I was on the fence the Mcfaden saleman came around teasing me with 60 dollars a sheet [I was thing of all the labour i would save].Then raise the price to 80 dollars .I sat down with the guys we talked it through we also live in the community we install kitchens .

We all ageed that if you have uv coating failure its a diaster .They will blame you

I know people will say there using the best but it hasn't been on the market that long .I gave me case 2 saleman thats why there looking for cheaper price on plywood if I get plywood at 40 to 50 dollars a sheet there no differnce in price.
Having a green product is a huge selling point

Plus with my system 5 or 8 years down the road you clear coat the bottom of the cabinets to keep it fresh

[beacon14]

I get the Purebond 3/4" Birch plywood at Home Depot for $45 per sheet. Never used it to make a set of kitchen cabinets though, we always use melamine or pre-finished plywood.

My understanding of the pre-finished plywood is that it's not a sprayed on product like lacquer but a clear melamine layer (comes in sheet form like clear paper) that is permanently bonded to the surface. It's been out for well over a 'few years', we've been using it for close to 10 years if I'm not mistaken, including on my own kitchen cabinets.

I have seen failures of the core - delamination, **** in the core, etc. - mainly when we tried using cheap Chinese imported pre-finished plywood. I've made it a rule to never use Chinese plywood in my shop (that and pressure-treated wood are the only materials I say 'never' to). The domestic versions have run between $60 per sheet, up to almost $80 per sheet, and they are nice quality. The difference in price usually depends on the cut and species of face veneer (white maple is higher than natural maple or birch) and whether it's pre-finished on one or two sides. I have never seen a failure on the domestic pre-finished plywood, although I've seen many substandard jobs where shops have tried to hand finish the interiors of plain plywood on the cheap.

[kevin]

Dave one question do you have experince with baltic birtch ?I mean they use it as standard on yahts
The saleman told me its sprayed 2 coats prefinised that if you scratch you can touch it up .But McFADEN IS BAD FOR BUYING ON THE CHEAP

Its a good subject did Gerry get his question answered

[bill.young]

I'm sure it's different in other locations, but I can't get any Baltic Birch ply locally...either 5x5 and 4x8 sheets...that is exterior. Doesn't matter for cabinets but I'd be awfully nervous about putting it in a boat.

[gerryv]

Thanks for the comment Kevin. there is some good discussion here so let's leave it open and if someone has something on my question just add it to the mix.:)

[john_hartman]

I pay $64 per sheet for 3/4" 2 sided pre-finished. I have been using this product for ALL inside cabinetry for 6+ years with no finish failure. Its a UV cured finish that's tougher than anything you can spray in your shop. I use this product as much for my own health as the clients and will not use anything else even if its requested. Pure bond is a great choice hands down on many levels. The ply's are not full of void's which can otherwise telegraph through the veneer and the surface is not lumpy/wavy. I use it as a sales tool as well. I take a sample of other pre-finished maple ply with me on appointments and let them smell the difference. Its makes for an easy sale even though I'm higher in overall price.

I use it for door panels a lot as well.

[gerryv]

Thanks everyone, the information is much appreciated.

[beacon14]

I do have a bunch of experience with Baltic Birch plywood, most of our shop fixtures are made of it (going back to when it was pretty reasonably priced). You can't beat it for stiffness or lack of core voids. The original BB plywood was all exterior grade, it's original use was for flooring in shipping containers (driven over by loaded forklifts, exposed to rain and seawater, etc). Now many suppliers bring it in for the building and cabinetry trades and it's not exterior rated - but neither is regular birch plywood nor most (if not all) pre-finished plywood.

[kevin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpitQcqcCfA

Here is how prfinished is made .In Canada it hasn't been around that long to my knowedge.I think prefinished is creeping up in price is the high cost of equiment
For me as long as I can stay 30 dollars less spraying is as cheap as prefinished there no differnce in price .The other advantage of spraying {in my case}is we use soild wood edgeing 1/4 inch which is left over material

[kevin]

I forgot one other point I see in my area and in Montreal North America .No one really cares how the cabinets are made or what used for the interior[every one is focused on the outside} .I think its a huge selling point to sound look like you know what your talking about .A cabinet shop down the road is saying there using rock maple ahh .Which mean there using a laminet sheet on particle board but the name sounds industrial