prt upgrade

[don62]

okay, i have a prt96 circa 2000. never been upgraded. works great. i am a retiree. have done a gazillion projects for church, home-based business, friends etc. recently closed the home-based due to cheap customers. was planning to just play with the machine. now i have a job to cut guitar necks and jigs - reliable customer who is willing to pay for what i do. i now have money to do one of three things: spindle, 4g or rbk upgrade. my first thought was spindle, but my guestimate is that it would take about 500 necks for the spindle to pay for itself - about 3 years. but upgrading the bot may save me headaches and redos as i cut necks and jigs. but what is best upgrade for me for the money: the 4g for 1600 or the rbk for 2600. know this subject has been discussed before - but now it is personal and what is more, if i do not upgrade then i can put that money in my pocket, but if i do upgrade, maybe i will have more retiree time to enjoy. thanks, don

[hh_woodworking]

4g was the best thing I did for the bot. You wont have the same machine as you did before.

[don62]

now the questions is: just 4g upgrade or should i do rbk?

[steve_g]

Don

Does the RBK upgrade offer any features or advantages that the 4G doesn't? In my mind the 4G is an upgrade that will make your resale value higher, the RBK is more costly but may only offer the same amount of added value.

SG

[don62]

SG,

the only thing that is pushing me towards the rbk is that it will replace the entire box - the 4g is just a motherboard replacement. my control box came with the bot so it is some 12 years old. other than that i see no great advantage for the extra 1k
don

[garyc]

Don...
Depending on your use there are a few more reasons than you may think. See attached

[jerry_stanek]

When I upgraded I received a new control box. I don't know what version box so you may get a whole new one About the only thing in the box that you will use is the power supply

[don62]

okay, i need to check to see exactly what would be included with 4g upgrade. thanks for the info on the rbk. the rbk looks like the right approach, but 1,000 bucks more is hard to accept. the item that catches my attention is: enables upgrade to more powerful motors. but soon the best solution becomes a whole new machine - if the desktop cut to 3-1/2" it would be perfect in many ways. but then i look at me being a retiree with no ambitions to recreate a home based business. this involvement with making guitar necks is exactly what i want to do, but if it grows as well it might i would probably go more to offering it to 100k garages than do a major upgrade (spindle, new bot). what is driving my train right now is that an upgrade to my bot will enable me to produce a better product - the neck warrants better finish then cutting signs or craft items

[jerry_stanek]

You will love the 4g upgrade. For the $1000 less you would be able to get your money back when you go to sell.

[don62]

i also think 4g is the way to go - just want to check with shopbot on Monday to see how much of the old control box will be replaced.

[Brady Watson]

i also think 4g is the way to go - just want to check with shopbot on Monday to see how much of the old control box will be replaced.

Just the main board (and small controller card sticking up from it) via 4 phillips head screws.

Installing 4G Upgrade on PRT Tools (http://www.shopbotdocs.com/SB-docs-template.html)

Unplug your motor cables from the board & serial cable. Completely pull off your input block (blue blocks and all - keeping the wires intact) and remove the 2 power plugs, one on the center of the board that goes to the MeanWell 48v power supply and the other one from the ATX power supply near the edge of the board that supplies 5 & 12 volts. Save the screws.

Calibrate the MeanWell supply to 48v via a test meter and the white voltage adjustment screw on the unit. It should be down around 44v right now. Those 4 additional volts will increase your top speed. Secure the new board, plug in the power supplies to the board, the input block you pulled off the old one (no need to rewire your inputs! - Easy Peasy!), and attach your USB cable. Zip tie the USB cable to the control box to provide some strain relief.

Install v3.6.44, Run it & pick your tool from the 'Older ShopBots' folder, with 4G designation. Be SURE to install the ShopBot drivers at the end of the installation. Only after installing the software should you plug in the USB hub you got with the upgrade, and the USB cable into the hub.

Run the TS command and setup your proximity switches and Zzero plate.

-B

[don62]

Brady, thanks, always appreciate your help and advice. okay, so it seems there is a growling coming from the power supply (aopen atx 250n) found one on ebay for ~50, but also found replacement - aopen fsp300 60atv for $30. what power supply would you recommend and when should i call it quits on this and go to the rbk?

if i may, another question - many moons ago there were discussions on spindles that included a source for a person who either rebuilt spindles or had used ones. cannot recall who this was and was wondering if you could point me in that direction.

much thanks
don

[Brady Watson]

Don,
It's a regular garden variety ATX power supply - so you can even roll down to BestBuy and get whatever is on sale - or order one via NewEgg. 250-350 watts is fine. Be sure to keep the old one around so that you can figure out the 2 wires that need to be jumped for the power supply to turn on. It won't, unless 2 wires in the long rectangular molex connector are bridged. I don't have one around at the moment to tell you...

Not sure about a used spindle source. I'd rather have something of known quantity that is ready to go with an included VFD, all cabling etc and be able to buy an adapter plate from SB to make installation as painless as possible. There is nothing wrong with your router since you are not doing production per se. I would rather see you go the route of Super PID (http://www.vhipe.com/product-private/SuperPID.htm) for $155 and a buy a brand new router, than spend the money on a spindle until you really need it.

-B

[don62]

very interesting. currently using the milwaukee 5625-20 3-1/2 hp which has variable speed. are you suggesting using the super pid rather than the control on the router.

can i assume that you are comfortable with me going the 4g route rather that the rbk?

why are we both on the computer on a Sunday!

much thanks
don

[Brady Watson]

Hey Don,
I took the day off. 1st one in about 8 weeks...I'm sitting on my butt today - I'm off 1st thing in the morning to integrate an ultrasonic welder on a PRS...

The Milwaukee is 'special' in the sense that it has electronic speed control built into it, with soft start and a few other features. If you are running the 5625-20 (http://www.milwaukeetool.com/tools/routers-and-sanders/routers/3-1-2-max-hp-fixed-base-production-router-with-electronic-variable-speed-feedback-circuitry-and-soft-start/5625-20) model, I don't know how much of a pain it would be to convert it to Super PID, since the setup would be more involved due to the internal electronics. You may be able to find some info by searching on the web.

A non-electronic speed controlled router, such as a PC7518 is ideal for a SPID swap and wiring is straightforward. The Milwaukee says that it maintains torque across the power band to prevent bogging, but I am not sure how well that actually works, since the electronics are more primitive inside the router than the SPID. What has been your experience? Also, the SPID will let you dial that router down to 5,000 RPM with some usable torque, whereas the Milwaukee in stock trim only goes down to 10,000. You'll have to decide what suits you best in that department - If it were me, I'd either keep the Milwaukee, or shelf it as a spare and get a new PC7518 + SPID for a wider usable RPM range than the Milwaukee.

In terms of the 4G vs RBK, I think Gary makes some very good points for going with the RBK & I agree with them. However, for your specific situation and budget, there isn't a $1000 performance difference between the two. Both will give you 2.5 times more resolution than you have now, higher speeds (although the RBK is faster) and decreased motor resonance. Either choice will make you giddy like a kid when you run it for the 1st time - no disappointments with either choice. If you needed more speed out of it later on, you can swap out that 48v PS for a 63v one.

-B

[don62]

this is my first milwaukee - very happy with it - been rebuilt once with supposedly high speed bearings. it runs soooooo much quieter than the pc. ibut i will look at the pc + spid, before i buy.

your comment on the ps - sound like if i replace aopen i should go for the 63 volt - got a recommended one to look at. now for the question that will show my ignorance - in my tower is another box that has written on it 40v = what is that box?

so much for your day off -

cheers
don

[Brady Watson]

Don,
Your PRT box has two power supplies:

1) ATX computer power supply that delivers 5 & 12 volts. This is the AOpen you mention.

2) MeanWell SP300-48, which delivers 40-48v for the motor drivers.

#1 is a computer store item. #2 is not, but can be replaced with a higher voltage supply later on down the line IF needed, later on down the line. Get setup with the 40v supply calibrated to 48v and go from there. Replace your ATX PS if it is shot - sooner or later they all get toasted from sawdust intrusion.

-B

[don62]

much thanks, sir. have fun with the ultrasonic welder - you knowledge and willingness to help are truly appreciated

cheers
don