The 64 thousand dollar question

[crash5050]

Do I keep putting money in the bot, or do I sell it?

My intentions were to stat cutting abinet panels for the builders and making custome wall sized entertainment centers. In order to do this, I am going to need a vac hold down system.

I have went and bought all the peices that should have formed the manifold, bought the best vac motors lighthouse had, and built the black box to house them. Nothing works, nothing fits. I also bought a 4K software program that while the folks who wrote it are noce enough, I just can't get my head wrapped around it enough to make it work.

Shopbot sells the PVC Piping for the router and it costs around 500 bucks, and I am going to have to have the light company come in and put in a 200 amp service to my shop to make enough amps to run everything. I have invested in over 1000.00 worth of bits, and then there is the dust collection and the kent dust shoes, and a brad nail completley thru my right index finger.

Would it be worth the investment to join Shopbot's production help program where they send someone out and make sure that the bot is set up right? another 1750.00.

Today has not been a good day, sorry for the rants.

David

[myxpykalix]

Let me try to address a few things for you...
I have went and bought all the peices that should have formed the manifold, bought the best vac motors lighthouse had, and built the black box to house them. Nothing works, nothing fits

First you don't have to have a vacumn system to start cutting cabinets. There are several different ideas here for holdowns from pin nails to T tracks and mdf jigs.

Also if things don't fit you have the perfect machine in which to make parts to adapt things to make them fit, the shopbot.

I also bought a 4K software program that while the folks who wrote it are noce enough, I just can't get my head wrapped around it enough to make it work.
Depending on what it is either go to their forum and ask questions or ask here and if you have specific questions someone will have an answer.

Shopbot sells the PVC Piping for the router and it costs around 500 bucks
If you are talking about regular pvc for your vacumn system, go down to lowes and buy what you need. I built a 4 zone system complete with ball valve shutoffs and all the joints, elbows, pipes for i think around $100.00

I only have a 50 amp subpanel running from my house that only has a 100 amp service and i have run dust collection a router and 2 feins shop vacs for vacumn off different circuits in the subpanel in the past and i've never had a problem.
I don't use my vacumn much, i prefer mechanical holddowns although placement of clamps can be a hassle sometimes.

Would it be worth the investment to join Shopbot's production help program where they send someone out and make sure that the bot is set up right? another 1750.00.

Unless you are willing to pay someone to run your shopbot for you all the time i'd say you need to keep your money and get over your frustration and take one problem at a time and come here and ask a question and someone will have an answer for you.

You are not experiencing anything that hundreds of other botters haven't gone thru so put on your "big boy pants" and get back out to the shop!:rolleyes: lol:D
We're here to help you any way we can so take one issue at a time and see if we can't get you on the right track.
Frankly if i can figure this out, you will get it in short order...good luck!

[bob_s]

David
Jack is right ( happens occasionally lol) you just have to get through the initial chaos and it al starts to make sense. I also have vacuum and rarely use it. Maybe try cutting some simple pieces without it using tabs if your software will let you. Generally the problems are simple if you take them on one at a time. The wealth of knowledge here is amazing and much of it has come from people being as frustrated as you are, then finally seeing the solution.
Shopbot tech is the best I have ever encountered, along with Vectric. Maybe ask if there are any shops near you that you visit for a day. I spent a day with David Buchsbaum when I started and it saved me a lot of frustration

Bob

[gene]

David
We all have days like that . on a suck meter of 1 to 10 yesterday was a 12.5. the best thing is to step back take things 1 step at a time and work thru the problems 1 step at a time . when i first got mine i questioned the decisions i made also , but with the help of this forum and the support from shopbot it has worked out . Some time you must step back ans approach from a different angle. all will work out .

[2006prt]

David,

Here is my 2 cents. I bought a used prt with the hsd tool changer spindle. I built a simple hold down system with the 4 vac motors we all use. I cut cabinets parts with ecabs and love it. The learning curve is definately worth it. FYI even with the big spindle, 4 vac motors, and a dedicated torit cucylone dust collector I am doing fine on a 100 amp service. I have never blown a fuse. I have been in production for about a year now and can't imagine working without the bot. Gary and the rest of the staff at SB has been an amazing. In looking back I should have scraped up the money to have Gary come to my shop and get me up and running more quickly. If I was in your situation I would have Gary come set you up and get you running and take a serious look at ecabs. This forum is a great community that has helped me out numerous times. I wish you the best of luck, you just have to start cutting parts either by yourself or with help from others.

Todd

[gerryv]

David, Try to first test sub-systems separately if possible to rule out what is not a problem. For example:

If you have the black box built, test to make sure it is pulling before hooking it up to the PVC piping.

If that's working then you can focus on making sure there are no blockages in the PVC piping and that the valves are set correctly.

If everything is a go to that point and you attach the pvc to the zones on the bottom of your table and you're getting no pull, the questions to ask may be (1) did you skim surface both sides of the MDF spoil board to allow air to pull through and (2) are you using a light weight enough MDF.

You can actually make sure everything works before cementing all the PVC joints even though it will be a little bit less efficient. That can save you some real frustration. I bought a table with a working vac. installed and almost none of the joints were cemented.

Just a few thoughts.

[jTr]

The following are prerequisite in order to excell at woodworking in general, but especially if you are utilizing any cnc:

1. An inherent drive to continue improving.
2. An equal amount of patience.
3. An equal amount of resourcefulness.
4. An above average intuition regarding mechanical workings.
5. And more...

How many hours have you worked on your other machines, dialing them in with calipers,etc. as close to optimal as you can get?
Are the blade and fence parallel on your tablesaw?
Hell, even the alignment marks on a $800 festool machine require a bit of tweaking to get properly aligned.

Just like any machine, there is much more to it than pressing a button and having perfection dripping out the other end.

The complications with a cnc and all the features you want up and running asap are exponential.
Conversely, the rewards for your patience and efforts are also exponential.

We all want you to succeed and be running on par with the rest of us, so that one day you'll be sharing the enthusiasm of your success. It is up to you to decide if you are able to digest what is required beyond the monetary investment.

"One cannot jump to the asolute - you must evolve towards it"

Jeff

[Brian Harnett]

I have had my bot for ten years and still end up taking jobs that put me in over my head. Step back and break the issues down into manageable bits, patience works.

[dlcw]

David,

The first 5 weeks I had my machine, I did nothing but break bits and cut things wrong. :mad: With a series of SB control software upgrades and hardware fixes, I was finally able to get my machine operating reliably.

I felt I had poured $10's of thousands of dollars down the drain for nothing. But Gary (before he worked for Shopbot) helped me through several issues and eventually I was up and running.

It can be very frustrating and sometimes you just want to throw the machine in to the recycle bin and purchase a CNC that has already been tested and is ready to start production as soon as it is on your shop floor. I was VERY, VERY tempted to do this. But I didn't and the money I saved on big iron has helped me to upgrade some of the other tools in my shop.

Like everyone has said, take it one problem at a time and resolve that problem. Then move on to the next one. I would suggest getting your vacuum hold down system up and operating first. That will clear the way to getting the rest of your system operating where you can start making some money.

Hang in there and persist. It will be worth your effort in the long run.

[shilala]

Step back and break the issues down into manageable bits, patience works.
This.
You bit off so much that nobody could chew it all at once.
Pick one piece and start studying. It's slow progress that takes months when you're teaching yourself, and you have to study, seek out information, and read every day.
Slowly your skills will develop.
When you need a break from studying, study up on the vacuum system you're putting together. Then study some more.

Dragging a tech in there at this point isn't going to solve all your problems. You're likely to confuse them. Get yourself in a good place first.
And don't nail your fingers anymore. That sucks. ;)

[crash5050]

Ok, After being verbally assaulted by My good Friend, which I really needed BTW, Thanks. You know who you are. I got down to business, I now have 4 operating Lighthouse motors mounted to the Bottom of my machine. Granted, this is not the optimal setting as I cannot use multiple motors on a single section of the teable, it is nice to hear all 4 of the motors running and the dust collector and the machine making air cuts, all on a 60 amp breaker. Whouda thunk it?

Well, I do need to apologize, I shouldn't whine on the open forums when I have a very smart guy just a phone call away. And yes, running a brad nail thru your finger is not very fun, although it was kinda interesting to see that thing in there, and it was more interesting when I pulled it out.

David

[curtiss]

60 amps should run most of everything all the time I would think.

Is the computer and control box on the same breaker as the vacs ? Separate that if you can.

Sorry about the finger. Somewhere there is a story about a guy who vacuumed himself to the ShopBot table for quite a while until he got free.

Maybe he will post the tale again.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmNTAvnSais

[crash5050]

The finger was the least of my worries. 4 foot 10.5 inch felmale spouse was about to take the saws all to the whole dang thing and sell it for scrap. She was getting madder at me than I was at the machine. I gave her a ruffie and she calmed down.

[curtiss]

The finger was the least of my worries. 4 foot 10.5 inch felmale spouse was about to take the saws all to the whole dang thing and sell it for scrap. She was getting madder at me than I was at the machine. I gave her a ruffie and she calmed down.

Goodness... this will help

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kfrgeGzKgc

[myxpykalix]

This ought to give you some perspective:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMpZ0TGjbWE

too bad you don't have a picture of that finger....lol :D

[crash5050]

And the Gods said, we need someone who while trying to work on a futile project, will use a high powered air gun to jam a nail thru his finger, they created me.

[rb99]

At least you didn't nail your thumb to the table when the bot was running...

You did good!

[crash5050]

I just thought I would post an update. After toiling all day long yesterday getting my motors mounted and wired up, today I threw my Trupan on the table to see if I could surface it, it had a bit of a bow in it from standing in the corner of my shop for 3 months. WOW! I hit those vac switches and the board laid down as flat as you could possibly want, and I don't think you could have moved it with a crow bar. Vac Systems are the shizzle!

David

[gene]

now youre getting somewhere ! Just remember when everything is comming youre way youre in the wrong lane

[crash5050]

Strange you mention that. The other day I was coming home from work and my wife called me saying that there was some idiot driving the wrong way down the interstate. I told her there wasn't just one, there was a lot of them!

[myxpykalix]

those last 6 words caught me offguard, laughed out loud!:D