CPU Speed

[rayman]

I have a question, I tried to download the new software VERSION 3.8.4 three times, I have a Buddy 48 PRS, whenever I run the software on my machine after a few seconds my machine starts to buck and shake.I talked with Frank, he said my cpu might not be fast enough, not sure how fast it has to be, I have a
AMD Phenom Quad-Core Processor 9750, AM2+ 2.40 GHz, 4 GB of RAM. Any suggestions? I m not a computer whiz when it comes to cpu's.....I ran a speed test and got a 76.4% rating which he said was good as long as it was over 70%....had to run the speed test on the previous version can't run one on the new version....:eek:

[rayman]

OK may have found the problem but unsure how to correct it, ok ran a speed test it is showing no port, how to fix that, usb is hooked directly to computer? :mad:

[adrianm]

Your USB should be connected via the hub supplied with the 'bot not directly.

[coryatjohn]

I had no trouble hooking up directly to the PC and not using the hub. In theory, there should be no difference between the hub and the PC ports. To the computer, they are exactly the same.

Again, this is in theory, if you have enough ports on your computer you should be able to bypass the hub.

Is there some mystery stuff going on in that particular hub? It looked pretty stock to me.

[srwtlc]

It's been mentioned in other threads that the old speed test is no longer valid for the new version. You need to give the machine a move command of say X,20 and then go to Utilities/Diagnostic Information (UD) and look at Packet_ET. 20 or less is good.

I'm running a AMD Phenom II X4 945 @ 3.00 HGz and am getting 15 -16.

A search on 'USB Hub' brings up much information....

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15547

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6435

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11671 Post #2 from Ted

[jerry_stanek]

I just loaded 3.8.4 on my netbook HP intel Atom 1.60 cpu 1 gig ram and hooked it up to my PRS Standard. I used the hub and I surfaced my table at 10 IPS with no problems. You need the hub to force the computer to use enhanced USB

[coryatjohn]

I have a cheapo Dell, but brand new (about $500) desktop style computer running Home Premium Windows 7. I have it hooked up as the directions indicated with the USB hub connected to the control cable and the spindle USB connected directly to the computer.

I read about the circle test in one of the forum postings linked in the previous post being a good indication of comm speed.

I just tested the 48" circle at 10 ips and it ran as fine. I tried it at 11 ips and it made a kind of dreadful noise but didn't have a comm error. I aborted it about 270 degrees in because of the sound. I tried it at 12 ips and it had the comm error within a second or two.

What would be a maximum (ips) speed to do the 48" circle test (PRS Alpha)?

[rayman]

ok I appreciate all of your help but I have downloaded this software 3.8.4, 4 times twice with a clean boot and it still does not work, sounds like a washing machine unbalanced, my computer speed is good, checked everything 2.0 port all good, it just won't run the software so back to the old version and work. Spent all day talking and trying and nothing, I have to get this china cabinet finished. Thanks and good luck...Hopefully they will figure this out.

[Brady Watson]

FYI - If you are running a 2.0 USB port (which is a requirement for v3.8.x) you should NOT be using a USB hub inline with the control box USB, UNLESS you are going more than 10' - then just put the hub in the middle, in between the 2 cables to boost the signal.

I know there was an issue with ATOM processors, not sure on the AMD ones, but the last service patch should have fixed this on those machines.

Are you sure that you loaded the firmware correctly to the SB control board using the UI command?

-B

[GlenP]

I tried the new version with my machine and got same sound as you...bump and grind. Went back to old version also. I have a new pc built with the help of another botter. Can you give specs of the exact motherboard, cpu and ram. I am going to look at mine in morning. I think I have the same motherboard as you but with 8 gigs of ram. Perhaps if we have same motherboard there is a issue with it?????
My situation seems same as yours so hope we can figure this out. I would love to run the new software but am using 3.6.38 with no issues.

[GlenP]

Here is my pc components to compare. May be nothing to do with the issue we both have but worth comparing and perhaps some of the computer guys on here can chime in with ideas or advice.

MOTHERBOARD
ASUS M4A89GTD PRO/USB3 AM3 AMD 890GX HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard

CPU
AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor HDZ955FBGMBOX

RAM
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-8GBRL

HARDRIVE
Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 ST31000528AS 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

I run windows 7 ultimate. Ideas??

[Brady Watson]

Glen - that's combo is serious overkill for running the bot! Be sure to send SB support an email with that info, along with the issues that you are having. They have up to date info on how to remedy these issues and what may be causing them. Keep in mind that SB Support does not monitor the forum for support issues, so be sure to email them.

-B

[GlenP]

Hey Brady. Yeah way more than needed but the price wasn't much more to go big. I buy my computer parts at newegg.ca and man prices are good. I have emailed with support but never called in. I have also been emailing back and forth to Scott Worden and we have tried few different things with no sucess. I use a externally powered usb hub as well. My machine is connected to the motherboard usb so I am going to order a usb card and see what that does. Machine is working fine just can't update to new version.
Cheers,

Brady or others- Here is newegg website for usb cards. Can anyone suggest one over others?
http://www.newegg.ca/Add-On-Cards/SubCategory/ID-73

[Ernie Balch]

I noticed that you have usb 3 support in your computer.

I was having comm errors every few hours when running long jobs. Even though the speed test was ok. I decided to get a faster usb port so I put an aftermarket usb 3 board in my computer. Running the speed test in version 3.6 I found that the usb 3 port was much slower running in usb 2 mode than my standard usb 2 ports. This was the case both with and without a hub.

My problem was solved by replacing the 201A control board with the latest 209A board and cable. My old cable had a inline usb to serial converter that could have been causing the comm errors.

Upgrading to version 3.8 has been trouble free.

[Brady Watson]

Hey Glen,
I am wondering if it has something to do with the newfangled USB3 ports. I don't think they have the drivers 100% worked out for them yet. Here's what they say:


Realize the True Future!! - TRUE USB 3.0 Support!
Experience ultra-fast data transfers at 4.8 Gb/s with USB 3.0–the latest connectivity standard. Built to connect easily with next-generation components and peripherals, USB 3.0 transfers data 10X faster and is also backward compatible with USB 2.0 components....or so 'they' say :rolleyes:

The only PCI to USB card that I have used or recommended has been the Belkin brand. I've never been a fan of Baal-kin and always thought the majority of their products were dumbed down...but the PCI/USB2.0 has been good. It looks like they no longer sell it as USB for around $40...now you are yoked into paying $70+ for a USB/Firewire you don't need...and there is no telling if it is any good. Got a good product? People love it? Take it off the market & redesign it so it sucks and is expensive! Ha!

Anyway, here's the Belkin (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815108013CVF&IsVirtualParent=1) one. For the price, it would be worth it to test out one of the StarTech or RoseWill ones (I think they are like $12 - cheap!). I guess I will have to buy a few myself and test them out to see what works. $70+ is too much to spend on a USB card, but then again you are talking about running a robot that makes you money with it. At any rate, I think getting the Bot on it's own USB channel is always a good thing.

-B

[rayman]

I am sure I downloaded the upgrade properly everything worked fine for about 3 minutes then it went to hell, I get no support from Shopbot, I have emailed 3 times and no answer yet, that was two weeks ago, I have called 3 times and they can't even remember talking to me, go figure, their answers are vague and unwanting, so, I will get my son involved and see if we can figure it out and I will let you know what we come up with. Here's what it does, when I start a cut the counter on the computer starts but the axis x or y does not move until it gets to 5", then if I am moving to my y axis end, 48", the counter is at 48 but the axis is at 45 and the x axis starts to move before y has ended, understand that? Hope so. So WTF...:mad:

[steve_g]

Microsoft did an "important" update on my Bot computer even though I have it set not to... Ever since, I've been having continual communication issues and I'm not even on the latest SB3... This is a new phenomenon for me... I'm going to start with a new USB card assuming there is a connection with new update and fairly old card.

I can't help but wonder if some of the issues many have been experiencing are related.

SG

[bleeth]

As far as PCI to USB convertor When I upgraded my computer my current one didn't work with the latest Windoze. I got a new one from Radio Shack and it worked fine. Don't know who makes them for them but haven't had any issues with it at all.

[jerry_stanek]

Have you tried resetting the shopbot through the UR command and then reload the firmware.

[Brady Watson]

Ray,
My recommendation would be to start by getting a PCI to USB expansion card. Install it. Leave the USB hub off and plug the Bot directly into that. Then reload 3.8 and reload the firmware using the UI command. See if that gets you going again.

One of my machines has USB 3.0 ports on it as well, but I use a PCI to USB 2.0 card, because I don't have awe inspiring confidence in what ASUS/ABit/Shuttle or any of the newer MoBo manufacturers say when it comes to their 3.0 ports.

You have to keep one very important thing in mind here...you are using the PC to drive a robotic tool. This places very different demands on the system compared to loafing around on the web or checking email. There's a lot going on. I'm sure that you get this, but sometimes we need to be reminded...

-B

[GlenP]

Hey. My PC does have 3.0 usb port but not using it. I am using a 2.0 port with a external hub. I am using the on board port and going to try a usb card to see if that helps.

[Brady Watson]

The card would get it on a distinct channel/bus and rule out any MoBo issues. Also, if you have a v201-v209 card (2007+) then ditch the 2.0 hub and try that. Just a direct plug in deal from the control box to the computer.

You are not running an IOGear USB to Serial converter by any chance are you?...If so, you don't have a v201+ board & you'd need to upgrade to a v209 to run v3.8. I say this more for the lurkers...

-B

[GlenP]

I have a ver 2.04 card. I have ordered a new usb card to put in the computer so I can get off the motherboard ports. I will post if it works or not.
I don't want to high jack this post on the original poster. Raymond is there any changes or updates or if you have had better luck?

Cheers,

[rayman]

I talked to Frank at Shopbot yesterday and sent him a couple of files I ran with my machine bucking and grinding, sounds like a rodeo, they said I have a communication problem, I don't understand, how can I run my machine now with no problems whatsoever but I upgrade and now we are not communicating, What am I missing here?
So if I understand correctly I tried what they suggested, hook directly to the computer bypass the hub and run it in easy mode. Did not work, having same problem? So if it is a communication problem this means I have to fork out money to fix it, I know it's not a lot of money but still I am dazed and confused? So I go and purchase a pci to usb 2.0, think that is what was suggested, and if it doesn't work then what? I don't think I am the only one having this problem, are we all having communication problems, something is not right anyway will try. Just sayin don't anyone take it personally....If you don't throw up flags no one will ever look and see....

[Brady Watson]

Ray,
Nobody is forcing you to run v3.8.x - If your machine runs fine with an earlier version, then restore it to that version & just leave it alone. There is certainly nothing wrong with that, and it won't cost you a dime.

My *money maker* runs 3.5.16 perfectly. I have no intention of updating it because I have run that machine for 170+ hrs straight with *zero* problems EVER! "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" is the name of the game in my book.

-B

[coryatjohn]

Raymond,

After over 30 years in the computer business, I've seen one thing over and over again. Bad cables. It could be that the previous version's communication protocol didn't tax the cable but the new version, perhaps because it's faster, has a tighter tolerance for bad cables.

If possible, I suggest replacing the cable. It may take care of the problem.

[rayman]

Thanks John best suggestion yet.I have checked every usb slot I have and it does it on all 5, so, suppose to be 2.0 anyway. Now where to get the cable?:D

[srwtlc]

This cable was recommended during the beta testing.

http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-U026-016-Certified-Extension/dp/B0002D6QJO

I was going to try one myself as I'm running a hub over 16', but just haven't taken the time yet, although I'm not really having trouble with what I'm using now.

I agree with Brady on the USB 3.0 stuff. I have two 3.0 ports on my setup, with the chipset drivers installed for them, and they're the only two ports that don't come up to speed for the Bot.

My setup is almost exactly the same as Glen's while using a powered hub from Wally World and 16' of cable. My hub that the bot is on is on an enhanced controller, where Glen can't seem to get his to show up on one. A good way to check this out is to use the USBview.exe program in the C:\Program Files (x86)\ShopBot\Diagnostics folder. With that, you can see where things are and if the hub/Bot are on an enhanced controller and whether or not something else might be on the same one with it.

If you can't find it, I've attached it here.

Another thing to check might be in your computers BIOS. With the motherboards like mine and Glen's, there is a setting in the BIOS's 'Advanced' section for USB configuration (or something similar) and in there you can set the USB 2.0 ports to either Full Speed or High Speed. You want them to be set to High Speed. You can generally enter your BIOS by hitting 'Delete' during boot up. If you watch the screen during boot, it will usually show what you need to do to get into 'Setup' such as delete, F1 or F2 etc.

[rayman]

Ok did a lot of searching this weekend testing and such, here is what I found, I checked all my ports and all worked the same, same reading, each port was tested using the speed test with the hub, checked BIOS it was set at high speed, all settings on the computer were where they need to be, now scratched my head and thought I might check the ports without the hub, well well, when the hub was connected I got a return of 76%, without the hub I got a 65%, think my cable is failing as suggested by John, it is a high speed cable and the rate should be as fast, at least I would think so? I am using only the cable from the Shopbot no extension. Luckily there was a tag on it, with a part number, so I looked on the internet and found one, there was a large pic of the cable in a bag and pics of each end , both ends match. So will see what happens next week when I get it. It is a braided cable the part number is USB TID 60000467 if you have one like that? I am using upgrade 3.6.3, the new upgrade 3.8 gives me problems after about 5 minutes then my Shopbot starts acting up. Appreciate all of your input, I would say that was a good problem solving session. Hope I haven't caused any hard feelings, if you don't ask you will never know.....:D

[GlenP]

Having a slower comm rate without the hub is normal. At least for me. If I understand things right with the hub being powered from a external source it allows the usb to communicate at a higher or lets say proper speed. Just using the usb port the power is divided up between other ports and other devices can reduce the power (speed) the port needs to create a adequate comm speed. I could be wrong in my thinking so if I am someone please chime in and tell me so. I have a usb card on order and coming next week to see if it helps my machine. I think by using the motherboard usb ports I am getting some slow down of my comms for the faster newer control software. I am getting caught up with work so can take time to try some options but do live and use the "ain't broke don't fix it" as some have posted. I hope the cable works and if so I will follow your lead on replacing it. Mine is original from shopbot as well but computer is very close to the controller. I also am not putting alot of worry into the comm speed test, just if it is working right without issues. My biggest hope with the new control software was to be able to cut a little bit faster. I honestly don't believe my machine has ever lived up to speed I was told or expecting it would do. I can only cut a 2.5 ips. Should be better than that but lived with it so far.
Keep up posted on status as more than us posting are in same boat....I think.

[rayman]

Ok I have done everything I know how to get this new update to work but unfortunately something is wrong, replaced the usb braided cable with new one ,no luck, checked all my settings, all are where they should be, all my ports a 2.0, i am running, AMD Phenom 750 Quad Pro-Core Processor 2.40 GHz, 4 GB of RAM, 300 GB hard drive, so will leave it alone and continue on as I was doing..lol......:eek: Like Dr Shaw said, not good, this is not good....:mad: