3.8.4 Positive Aspect

[gerryv]

Today I did a number of air cuts with 3.8.4 on a new laptop with Win 8 not yet stripped down, through a USB 3 port and with nothing grounded yet on my BT48 alpha. Should have been a disaster right, but I'm pretty excited. Yes it crashed once which, considering the above could have been anything.

BUT, I ran everything from 4" circles up to 20" circles in 2" increments, all at 4ips through to 12ips in 2ips increments. The smoothness between now and when I bought it was huge. Out of the 4 Shopbots I've owned, this machine just hummed at all speeds. No comparison.

True, my livelihood doesn't depend on it (retired) but we are planning a startup and I felt pretty reassured today overall.

[adrianm]

The smoothness and speed is the thing I love about 3.8 and why I'm so glad it works for me. I'd hate to have to go back now I've been using it so long.

[jerry_stanek]

I love the speed and smoothness also no problems running it on a various computers.

[coryatjohn]

So is 3.8.4 ready for production or just a curiosity for hobbyists?

[ron_moorehead]

I ran 3.8.4 for 5 hours yesterday with out one problem.

[sc.crab]

This might be a dumb question but being new to CNC I have alot of them but my question is what do you mean by "Win 8 not yet stripped down"

[kurt_rose]

It's just stripping a computer down so there is nothing else running but what needs to run the bot. No automatic updates and such. Google Black Viper/ "Bare-bones" configuration

[Bob Eustace]

Shopbot released 3.8.6 on the 26th. Seems to have corrected the problem we were having and also steppers appear to be running more smoothly. Fingers and toes crossed!

[adrianm]

So is 3.8.4 ready for production or just a curiosity for hobbyists?

I process up to twenty sheets of 8x4 MDF a day via my ShopBot running 3.8.4 so I'd say that's well outside the hobbyist range...

No issues at all but then I've never had any issues with any of the three PC's I've used with the 'Bot over the last few years or with any public version of the software either. Problems I've had have all been physical machinery or circuit ones.

[gerryv]

John, the delivered replacement cost for my setup is about $24,000 but even for the fellows that spent less, we're all dead serious about our machines, even if they are fun, so perhaps "curiosity" is not a good choice of words for us or for the huge effort that's gone into and going into perfecting our pride and joy.

[rayman]

Tried the new update 3.8.6 version still can't run it, matter of fact my pkt was 54, had a 15.7 on the 3.8.4 but could not run it. :mad:

[Bob Eustace]

Ran 3.8.6 all day and zero comms drop outs (all oak though and no MDF). Wore the new anti static boots just for luck! Nearly had a heart attack though when Chrissy told me they were over $100! Ouch! I dont to get to handle any money just my $20 a month haircut allowance. Cant wait to go bald - I'll make a profit!

[GlenP]

Raymond I sent you a pm. I tried to run it as well with no luck. Just wondering if we should post our machines or specs to compare. Perhaps it would help see the things that are in comparison for guys able to and guys not able to run it. I may to way out to lunch here but never hurts to give more details and perhaps this will help shopbot support.
My machine is
2007 PRS standard
motors have label of 0.5 steps and are 1.5 amp
controller card is V2.04
Using Porter Cable 7518 router
I will look up specs for my pc and edit later.

[jerry_stanek]

Mine is a
2008 PRS Standard
PRT V 4.17 board
HP dc 5000s computer
2.8 ghz
2 gig ram
stripped down to only run Shopbot and on secondary network only to transfer files.

[Greybarn]

Geez. I am bummed. I can't get it run with my set up. I have a PRT 4G V4.16 board. I had tried to get the 3.8.2 to run but could not get the USB connections to be recognized. Pretty old computer though so maybe that was the problem. Maybe I will try to load it on my laptop and run 3.8.6 from that....
Regards
Peter

[jerry_stanek]

My computer is old an old Pentium 4 picked up reconditioned

[jhedlund58]

I have a win7 Toshiba Satellite stripped to bones. no virus protection... no lan... no internet turned on... power setting set properly etc.. I do use it to update from ShopBot ONLY as it is my control machine and I count SB as a secured site... no win updates no nothing.... I am still using io-gear hub provided with buddy48 in 2011. no com errors. Machine is stable. and 3.8.4 works fine on second install. I had to uninstall older version and then download new... seemed to be trick for me. hope this helps

[Simops]

Ran 3.8.6 all day and zero comms drop outs (all oak though and no MDF). Wore the new anti static boots just for luck! Nearly had a heart attack though when Chrissy told me they were over $100! Ouch! I dont to get to handle any money just my $20 a month haircut allowance. Cant wait to go bald - I'll make a profit!

Glad it works for you now Bob.......personally I could not be bothered to have to go to all the trouble of changing computer specs or hardware or wear anti-static boots or stand on my head to get this driver to work reliably. Just don't have the time or inclination to be bothered like this for something, from what I can read, is not a massive improvement to what I already have with 3.6.44. I'm happy to be proved wrong but until then happy to keep this stress maker on the sideline for now.

Cheers

[Brady Watson]

If you wear the boots, you need to have the foil hat on too...

-B

[Brian Harnett]

If you wear the boots, you need to have the foil hat on too...

-B

You need a grounding wire connection for both for max protection

[coryatjohn]

You need a grounding wire connection for both for max protection

And of course the best way to do that is to drive a 3 foot copper rod through each foot into the "earth."

[scottp55]

Anti-static boots? foil hats? copper rod stigmata? Oh my, how am I going to ground my wheelchair? :(

[ssflyer]

Tinsel? :D

[steve_g]

Scott...

Isn't the ground lug located next to the rocket propulsion pack?

SG

[scottp55]

Cute Ron, But now I am beginning to wonder if it will be an issue or not,I mean none of me touches anything but rubber,I think using my finger to ground out on any part of the set-up is a bad idea. :) Scott

[steve_g]

Scott

All kidding aside, It's not likely to be an issue except on the coldest, driest days. Don't trucks have a conductive rubber "drag" strap that dissipates static? that might work.

SG

[scottp55]

Enough guys, I figured it out, I'll just rip off the stop sign down the road,embed it in my slab and lick it before I touch the machine. Desktop will definitely go in heated shop.

[scottp55]

Did think of that, should not have mentioned it. Igot to eat before TJ gets back.

[bobmoore]

I am reading about your machines running faster and/or smoother and am curious. Is it just the software producing that or a faster usb communication hub? In other words do I have to upgrade anything else or just the software? I have a 2003 prt with 4g upgrade. No problems with 3.6.44 but wouldn't mind 12 in/sec if it's available.
Thanks Bob

[jerry_stanek]

I am reading about your machines running faster and/or smoother and am curious. Is it just the software producing that or a faster usb communication hub? In other words do I have to upgrade anything else or just the software? I have a 2003 prt with 4g upgrade. No problems with 3.6.44 but wouldn't mind 12 in/sec if it's available.
Thanks Bob


This is what I read. The new software sends larger packages of data to the controller so there is less back and forth of data. My speed went from 4.5IPS to over 8 IPS on my Standard. I also had it running on my old PR and the speed almost doubled

[GlenP]

WOW good for you Jerry. I will admit I am frustrated why this won't work on my machine. Now I tried it at my normal speeds and it grinded and acted like motors were loosing and regaining comms. Maybe I should have tried faster speeds. Might just do that right now. Jerry can you tell me more about your standard machine. Year, controller card version, motors etc.

[GlenP]

Well for the heck of it I tried again and no luck. Here is a pic of my sys info. I may take a quick video but not sure if that will help much. I am curious why Jerry could get more speed and it working on a PR machine and this newer machine won't.

[GlenP]

Well I just switched to my old computer than has Xp on it and the 3.8.6 ran fine. I only have done air test but it did the air test at 10ips both move and jog and didn't loose position. Cutting maybe different situation but tomorrow I will see. I am getting a packet of 22.6 but am not on the usb card I am on the motherboard. So why would this old pc with only 1 gig or ram, pentium 4 pc work better than the quad core pc???
Perhaps |I have something setup wrong in the quadcore machine?

[jerry_stanek]

I still think it has to do with the multi core processors that mix the feeds to the bot between the cores. Or it could be when you load your firmware it is using one core and then when you start running it it uses the other core with a different speed just like changing the computer on a 3.6.44 system. Like when the one person tried to run his bot from a different laptop with different amout of ram with out upgrading his firmware. It would run to a point but error out after a time.

[gerryv]

Jerry & Glen, that's interesting. I wonder if the Shopbot folks have tested this theory and if it's possible to force a PC to only use one core? It's nearly impossible these days to find a single core PC with some reasonable guts isn't it, or am I mistaken about that?

[GlenP]

I am sure there is guys using multicore processors that are running it. What are you running Gerry? I built my multicore pc so I know it doesn't have all that **** software on it that comes with windows. For me I think I am confident it is the pc and not anything to do with the shopbot due to this testing...so now to figure out why my quadcore pc won't run it. Ideas????
If there is anybody that is willing to take a look at my pc I am up for using a software that allows you to go into the computer via internet. Can't remember the software name. :)

[jerry_stanek]

I have posted many time that I am running it on a single core P4 2.8 ghz with 2 gigs of ram. I also ran it with a netbook Atom with 1.6ghz processor and 1 gig of ram. both machines ran fine with these computers.

[ron_moorehead]

I have a duel core PC with 4 gigs of memory running XP with SP3. I am running 3.8.4 and was having problems with it stopping during spindle warm up, no dust collector running. The XP software is a OEM disk I bought a while ago so when I loaded it on the new PC I did not get all the **** that comes with a Best Buy PC. To fix my problem I went in and configured the XP software using the Black Viper settings for basic configurations. I have now run the ShopBot for 20 hours with out any problems. Its amazing all the stuff running in the background you don't need.

[ssflyer]

I still think it has to do with the multi core processors that mix the feeds to the bot between the cores. Or it could be when you load your firmware it is using one core and then when you start running it it uses the other core with a different speed just like changing the computer on a 3.6.44 system. Like when the one person tried to run his bot from a different laptop with different amout of ram with out upgrading his firmware. It would run to a point but error out after a time.

Jerry,

Loading the firmware would have nothing to do with a multi-core processor, however, you do bring up an interesting point about how they partition tasks.

Try this - open Task Manager, and right click on sb3.exe. Click "Set Affinity", then set it to only one core. I don't know if this will make a difference, but may be a way to determine if multi-core is an issue.

Edit: Sorry Jerry, just noticed that you are using a single core - perhaps Glenner can try it?

[jerry_stanek]

What I was thinking is with a multi core when you load the firmware and it sees say core a as the one that will run and if you restart and start the SB software and the other core is loaded will it look like a different computer and not know how to handle the new information.

[GlenP]

Ok I will give that a try either tonight or tomorrow. Spent all day painting trying to finish up our home renos. Frickin tired. Hope this perhaps the start of resolving this issue. If it works I or someone else can send Frank or shopbot support our findings so they are in the loop.:)
Cheers,

[GlenP]

Well I did some testing with the cpu core and it didn't make a difference if I selected one or all. Also I noticed that when I closed the shopbot software and reopened it and went back to task manager it defaulted to all cpu's. It failed and made same grinding noise when trying ti select the cpu and on my ubs card using external hub. My comm packet was at 15.2.
I decided top try without the external hub and using my usb 3.0 on the mother board. It ran fine and did air testing at 7ips cutting and 10 ips jog. The wierd thing is the packet it at 45.4??? I am going to put some mdf on the machine and if it will actually cut at this speed as my testing was all air testing with router off. I am not confident to leave the machine running this version all week with my workload so may switch back to 3.6.38 that I usually run so I have no worries and do more testing next weekend. Thoughts anyone?

[GlenP]

Edit
Well just did cut test of squares. circles and oval. WOW cutting at 6 ips is frickin fast when you are used to 2-2.5 ips. Jog speed of 10 ips is quick too. All part cut to exact size and returned to home dead on. I will keep testing today and if no issues if might have gained my confidence to run it this week. I have a 3.0 usb card that I am going to install and see if packet drops down. The packet was 45.2 after running that cut test. ??

[GlenP]

Just installed the 3.0 usb card and the packet is now at 15.4 Did air test and worked perfect. Will do another cut test later today.:):)
Man wish there wasn't a 10 minute time limit on editing posts.
Cheers,

[GlenP]

Well I am happy to report I have been running 3.8.6 all day with no issues. It is cutting faster and jogging at 10 ips. WOW what a difference. I am using a usb 3.0 card and the only weird thing is the packet numbers are high but no issue. I did go in and select only cpu 0 to run shopbot exe in task manager. I did check it later and it seems to default back to all when I check it??
I am positive I tried the 3.0 usb port before and it failed...but its working now and I am not fiddling with it.
Cheers

[ssflyer]

Glenn,

You can keep the processor affinity from reverting by changing the shortcut, but it doesn't sound like it makes a difference, anyway! :)

[jerry_stanek]

Glad to hear you are up and running like I said before it is really nice to cut faster and smoother. When I had my old PR running as fast as the new PRS running the older software it was all the proof I needed. Surface the top at 10 IPS is nice

[Greybarn]

Ok. I have a dumb question. I have a PRT with the 4G upgrade. The USB is connected through a hub and uses a Serial to USB adapter for connection to the SHOPBOT control box. Does anyone know if I can use 3.8.6 with the Serial to USB adapter? Or do I need to update the card in the control box?
Regards
Peter

[steve_g]

Peter the important question is what version number is it? To run the latest software it must be a 200 series.

SG

[ron_moorehead]

Ok. I have a dumb question. I have a PRT with the 4G upgrade. The USB is connected through a hub and uses a Serial to USB adapter for connection to the SHOPBOT control box. Does anyone know if I can use 3.8.6 with the Serial to USB adapter? Or do I need to update the card in the control box?
Regards
Peter

From what I have seen and heard it will only work with the newer control cards that have the USB cable that plugs directly into the controller card.

[GlenP]

When I purchased my bot I was under the understanding it would be able to cut to these speeds and will admit was disappointed that my max cutting speed was 2.5 ips and jog a 5-6 ips. Now I will have to relearn my bit limit techniques with this newer speed. Small price to pay. lol
I am still baffled as why my packet numbers are high. I checked yesterday and once they were 15.6, ten minutes later they were 45.8 and continued to jump high and low. I was always told from shopbot not to worry about comm rates, if it cutting correctly and not loosing comms....don't worry about it.
I did try hooking up to the usb 3.0 on the motherboard before and it didn't work. One thing I know for sure is before I installed 3.8.6 I went into the windows explorer and deleted the Sbparts and then into Program Files (x86) and anywhere else shopbot program was installed and then to control panel to remove the shopbot control software, restarted the computer and then installed 3.8.6 and drivers. After firmware update and checking the cpu as Ron suggested it worked. Again not sure if some old part of previous version was lingering around and giving me issue or ? I just thought I would make sure I deleted everything associated with the previous version before installing new. I read once about "ini" files that should be deleted or something like that.:)
If you are having issues with the new version try removing all the files and folders associated with the control software and see. Worked for me...or something did. lol
Cheers

[Greybarn]

The only reason I asked was I saw that Jerry was using version 4.17...so I thought I could sneak by with Version 4.16....
Regards
Peter

[jerry_stanek]

I think that should be ok to try it. The worst that happens is it will not find your controller and you would have to reload 3.6

[kurt_rose]

Ok. I have a dumb question. I have a PRT with the 4G upgrade. The USB is connected through a hub and uses a Serial to USB adapter for connection to the SHOPBOT control box. Does anyone know if I can use 3.8.6 with the Serial to USB adapter? Or do I need to update the card in the control box?
Regards
Peter

I have the same machine. At these speeds that are be talked about I'm thinking that beefing up the structure with welding and cross bracing is gonna be an absolute must for us PRT owners. I've set aside next weekend to nothing but tighting up the bot. Gonna have to figure out if I need the updated card also. I hear it's in the $300 range for the card upgrade. Is that the consensus?

[ssflyer]

Glen,

Did you ever determine if the processor affinity made a difference? If it did, I can post instructions to modify your shortcuts, so it doesn't revert to all processors...

[Greybarn]

I am going to give it a try but am going to add RAM to the computer before the next attempt. If that does not work, them I will probably go for the upgraded card. I will let you know how it goes.....

[GlenP]

I will be honest Ron...no I didn't try after I got it working. I am not sure if I am correct but wondering if deleting all shopbot3 files, folders and the software off the pc and then restart and install version 3.8.6 was the key to getting it right. I did try one thing yesterday. I didn't have full faith in the new control software yet so I decided to go back to my trusty version 3.6.38 which I have been using for quite some time. I didn't delete or remove anything just install. When I opened up keypad and went to move the gantry if growled and made same sounds as when I was trying to get 3.8.6 and earlier 3.8 versions to work. I went in and deleted all shopbot files, folder and uninstalled all shopbot control, restarted the pc and installed 3.6.38 and holy **** it was fine. ??
Went back and deleted all files, folders and uninstalled all shopbot control software and installed 3.8.6 and ran fine all day again today. :confused:
I remember once about some "ini" file when upgrading but couldn't find info when I searched. Seems the secret to my success is fresh install. No residual shopbot files for the sb3. Mow I will be first to admit, I am no computer whiz or no coding or anything like that so perhaps my results were just dumb luck. But good dumb luck. lol
I hope perhaps this will help others.
The one thing that baffles me is that my packet numbers are high. I just checked tonight before shutting down and it was 45. I am using a usb 3.0 card, no hub with a stock shopbot usb cable. Is this packet number not a huge worry with the new version as well? I am cutting a 6ips and jogging at 10ips. I just started there. I havent pushed the speed to find my max yet. For me 10 ips is fast. WOW FAST

[jerry_stanek]

I am going to give it a try but am going to add RAM to the computer before the next attempt. If that does not work, them I will probably go for the upgraded card. I will let you know how it goes.....


Do you have more than 1 gig of ram in your computer. My netbook runs it fine with only 1 gig but more is better.

[Greybarn]

Do you have more than 1 gig of ram in your computer. My netbook runs it fine with only 1 gig but more is better.

Jerry
I only have 512Mb of RAM now. I am going to upgrade that to 2 gigs which can only help.
The real issue I had before was the computer would not "see" the control box so I could not update the firmware, let alone run SB3.8.X. When I try to install 3.8.6 this time, I will have more RAM, will delete all of the old SB software prior to installing the new version, and then will try bypassing the USB hub to see if that will get the firmware to load.
If that does not work then c'est la vie!
Regards
Peter