The Liberator- 3D printed gun

[myxpykalix]

Someone has designed a stl file of a working 3d printable gun. I don't know if i would trust a plastic gun but it was interesting to read the article and see the gun shoot and work!
http://defdist.org/

here is the link for the stl files:
https://mega.co.nz/#!JplQVDDQ!Qi8kflIn8kMZl0hK96YW1h7RIc9vz2SfErzB-7qRV-0

[Bob Eustace]

Yes it made every evening news in Oz! Lead story on a couple.

[gerryv]

Get ready for nude airport pat-downs :)

[dana_swift]

I have heard people hear about 3D printed guns and say- but the guns are all plastic. Not necessarily so.. There are 3D printing technologies that print metal directly, but they are very expensive at the moment. The PLA and ABS printers are so inexpensive that staples is going to be selling them.

http://www.examiner.com/article/staples-to-sell-affordable-1-299-3d-printer-starting-june

Metal parts are easily cast from 3D prints (or shopbot-cut models). Anybody with a torch or kiln can make a mold of the 3D part and melt whatever metal is available and cast a perfect 3D part.

I have experimented with making metal signs by cutting positives models on my shopbot. I used styrofoam to model the final part and used acetone to remove the model from the mold before casting. The mold was made from "slip" which is ceramic clay mixed with a lot of water. Plaster of Paris has been used by others.

Whether we like it or not the maker movement is creating much more than plastic toys with blinking lights.

And the folks who say go ahead and make a plastic gun, we will outlaw ammo, haven't thought about how easy it is to make ammo.

The cat's out of the bag, and it is a saber-tooth beast-

Nice kitty.. down..

D

[coryatjohn]

Dana,

Casting metals, even low temp ones like bronze, copper and lead is difficult at best. My father had a bronze foundry for decades and the work it takes to make even a simple casting from a model is really incredible. I don't think we'll be seeing the average Joe casting gun parts anytime soon.

This plastic gun thing is a publicity grab by the author. Sure, it shoots a .22 short once. I'll bet the second shot doesn't go so well.

I made a Zip gun from a car antenna, a nail and some wood when I was 12. It worked perfectly the first time. There was less metal in it than a hand full of coins. What's the difference between this and the 3D printed one? Politics and fear mongering. That's all.

[dana_swift]

John- casting is not simple I fully agree. Neither is 3D printing. That has not stopped development, it seems to encourage it. Development stops when things are trivial. How many people are working on developing better ink for their quill pens? I bet there are a few, but Bic has made it a hobby.

My brother is doing the 3D printing to stainless steel with excellent results. He is using a more involved process than what I outlined, I wont disclose it since its his thing, but the assertion that the results are necessarily low quality are flawed for the same reason that manufactures of large big-iron CNC machines thought inexpensive stepper motor based "toy" routers were no threat to their business.

The results can be stunning. The first step is to use a high resolution 3D printer that prints to less than 0.001" resolution. The final parts show no "steps" or "layers". They are smooth.

Getting high resolution castings from high resolution parts involves a process called "spin casting". Look it up on the web. Anybody with a shopbot can build a very high quality one in just a few hours. Without a shopbot it takes a little longer ;) What the spin casting does is force the liquid metal into the mold at 20+ G's. It maintains the high acceleration until the metal cools enough to keep its shape.

The first time I ever saw spin casting it was a lady friend who was making jewlery and small parts from gold and silver. She had converted a junkyard washing machine into a spin caster using the bearings and central axis for the spin mechanism and left the drum for a safety cage.

Read up on spin casting, then try your childhood experiment again. I suspect you will come to a different conclusion. :)

D

[Acmeaviator]

Fearmongering and politics - that is all this is about. If people are scared of what can be done with a multi-thousand $$ 3d printer they should be terrified by what can be done on a few hundred $$ used lathe and mill.

Actually I think this whole story shows just how far - in one generation - we have become removed from the processes of making things. The average person on the street thinks making anything is some kind of secret magic.

[steve_g]

Many years ago... in another lifetime... I taught general shop. This included lead casting techniques to Jr. high students, aluminum and brass to Sr. high students. These students readily caught on to the concepts of mold making and investment casting. To me it would be a small step for the brighter of these students to take these lessons a step further, add technology and zeal and look out, the possibilities are limitless!

Dana... We poured molten aluminum directly on top of our EPS models. A puff of smoke and flame and the EPS was gone!

SG

[ron_moorehead]

We can't seem to ban assault weapons, so I don't see use banning plastic guns. Their was a movie a few years ago showing some assassin building a plastic gun to kill the president, I think Clit Eastwood stared in it, so is this really new. From what I have seen at the airport, the scanners can see plastic as well as metal. When I go through the airport I always think about the movie the Man with the Golden Gun he had harmless looking parts that when put together made a gun. Oh well,

I want 3D printed body armor.

[CNYDWW]

Get ready for nude airport pat-downs :)

I already refuse to fly.

[Brian Harnett]

Fearmongering and politics - that is all this is about. If people are scared of what can be done with a multi-thousand $$ 3d printer they should be terrified by what can be done on a few hundred $$ used lathe and mill.

Actually I think this whole story shows just how far - in one generation - we have become removed from the processes of making things. The average person on the street thinks making anything is some kind of secret magic.

Yes there are more robust ways to make a firearm and usually the people that know how to are not the nutjobs going on rampages. I could make a small cannon on my south bend 14 1/2 lathe.

[coryatjohn]

I already refuse to fly.

I refuse to be cowed into submission by a propaganda spewing establishment!

[srwtlc]

Ban this gun or that gun, limit the technology, and guess what...criminals, thugs, and the unstable will still get/have guns. Law abiding citizens will not. Good luck beating off one of them with your 3D printer before they shoot you and take it from you (or your money, car, wife, husband, etc.)

My semi-auto plinking/varmint 22 rifle would be banned with Feinstein's proposed assault weapons bill and there's no difference between it and an AR15 that uses the same ammo. One trigger pull, one shot. Release and repeat for one more. No different than any semi-auto hunting rifle or shotgun, just different skin. Not to mention the clip stupidity.

[BTP]

My new toy.

Prints 4.75" x 3

I got it in last week. It's 220amp, and I am waiting on the electrician to put a plug in for me.

& I aint printing no guns,
last thing I want is the government wondering "what I am doing with my life"
, anymore than they already do:D

http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=17939&stc=1&d=1367950035

[steve_g]

Alex...
You're a brave man! After viewing their web site, watching the Chinese videos and reading the pidgin manual, I'd have run as fast as an old man can go! Is the horrible print quality due to the models they're using, or the .004 - .012 print head accuracy? Let's see what you can do with it!

SG

[Bob Eustace]

Alex the 220 amps scares me a little bit!

[ssflyer]

Alex the 220 amps scares me a little bit!
:eek::eek::eek:

[myxpykalix]

Alex,
Please post some pictures of your first 3d printed object, should be interesting!

Scott,
See one of my signatures below from Thomas Jefferson. From where i live i can look up on the mountain and see his home Monticello. Years ago we did a video for the foundation and you'd be surprised at the hidden staircases and secret places all over in that house! :eek:

[dana_swift]

I thought I would "put up or shut up".. The results are very impressive.

Here are direct castings from a 3D printer, showing the same sort of results my brother is getting. This is not one of his parts, but the idea is the same.

This is a turbine, direct cast "as printed", with machining on one side, clearly shown. That is my hand holding the part.

The non-machined surfaces are smooth to the touch, and as I said, the printing artifacts are gone. The part measures 1.700 inches. The printer resolution is around 0.0005". The time to produce was under one day. I have no idea what alloy they used. My brother is using stainless steel with equally great results.

A photo is worth a thousand words.. so no need to keep typing.

I suspect Jefferson would want one for his workshop :).

At least now it should be clear we are not just talking about plastics. or producing things that only work once. Although it does a great job with plastics also.

D

[curtiss]

So you print a plastic gun... load it with a real bullet that will explode and move things in the direction of least resistance...

Does anyone know what direction the bullet will actually go ?

[ssflyer]

That's pretty cool, Dana,

What's the mini-turbine for?

[coryatjohn]

I thought I would "put up or shut up".. The results are very impressive.

Here are direct castings from a 3D printer, showing the same sort of results my brother is getting. This is not one of his parts, but the idea is the same.

This is a turbine, direct cast "as printed", with machining on one side, clearly shown. That is my hand holding the part.

The non-machined surfaces are smooth to the touch, and as I said, the printing artifacts are gone. The part measures 1.700 inches. The printer resolution is around 0.0005". The time to produce was under one day. I have no idea what alloy they used. My brother is using stainless steel with equally great results.

A photo is worth a thousand words.. so no need to keep typing.

I suspect Jefferson would want one for his workshop :).

At least now it should be clear we are not just talking about plastics. or producing things that only work once. Although it does a great job with plastics also.

D

Dana,

That is way cool!

I looked up the process online. I wonder about voids and other imperfections. Those little turbines look pretty solid.

[Xray]

You'd have to be a complete moron to fire one of those things, I have the feeling this guy will be sued to the ground, no matter what kind of disclaimers & caveats he attaches to the files.
A cousin of mine got maimed pretty badly firing a PVC potato cannon, very lucky to be alive. The thing disintegrated, sending deadly plastic shards every which way. I was over his place just a few weeks before and he fired it, I told him if he must continue to shoot the thing, at least wrap it up good with some duct tape. Plastic and explosives simply do not mix, I'll stick with my Glocks.

[myxpykalix]

Does anyone know what direction the bullet will actually go ?

Not backwards...that's for sure, but other then that I wouldn't guarantee

you can make all the plastic guns you want but until they make plastic bullets you still won't get it thru a metal detector.:D

[myxpykalix]

Here is a video from our buddy Jon (cncking.com) discussing 3d printing materials.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRFdlO34hhE&list=PLn1LILNztHzNvXzIWBy62XAHaNdfTzFJ2

Somewhere in this video or another he mentions that an object he made (the size of a coffee cup took 11 hours to make and cost about $15.00 in material.

This is the drawback to making objects for sale, the cost per object and time in production makes it too expensive to make a profit, so i guess you really need to have a specific file to make for a profit?

Also what type of program is used to create "cutfiles" for a 3d printer? I suppose a full 3d file like a stl could be used?

[BTP]

Alex...
You're a brave man! After viewing their web site, watching the Chinese videos and reading the pidgin manual, I'd have run as fast as an old man can go! Is the horrible print quality due to the models they're using, or the .004 - .012 print head accuracy? Let's see what you can do with it!

SG

as far as "quality" of work, I am not concerned that much with this machine.
I am only going to make my own tools with it. Nothing that will go to customers.

It's a starter machine for me. It was only $750 with free shipping to the US.
after I get the hang of it, I am going to get the larger USA assembled one. But I was not going to pay 2k for something , until I know I was going to be able to create my own tools with it.





Alex the 220 amps scares me a little bit!

I dont know much about electrical, but after the electrician told me yesterday, to just get a converter.

This is what I know

220v 4amp 50htz

not very powerful

[dana_swift]

John- using spin casting with 20+ G's there are almost never any voids. The forces on the molten metal are so high that the "bubbles" are forced to the "top" of the molten metal surface, which is the side facing the axle.

The only reason voids would show up is if the metal is poured too close to its plastic temperature. If its truly liquid, the G's from spin casting overcome the viscosity of the liquid to force the bubbles (voids) out. The spinning has to continue until the metal cools well into its plastic range where it has taken the shape of the mold, after that it can stop spinning and cool just hanging vertically under 1G.

All-

My interest in spin casting is not for arms, building a really nice gun would cost more than buying one. (The benefits of mass production.) But making a one-off or mass-producible product of any kind is of interest to me. Anyone wishing to employ the technology certainly can build any arm they wish now, from any metal they choose.

I am reminded of early transistors. I was told "they could never do much work.." they were too big and couldn't handle power. Or early computers "what would anybody do with one?" Now look at transistors 50 years on. Today with transistors everybody has millions of them in their pocket, as a cell phone! (containing that most impractical invention - the computer). And driving around town with a computerized mapping system on their dash, while listening to digital radio.

Cars were deemed so impractical that a seemingly safe bet was placed that one could not drive coast to coast. The result is documented in the Ken Burns film "Horatio's Drive". The cost of that trip was astronomical, but it was the first of many. Now we think nothing of long distance driving, its just a task. And it costs very little in comparison.

Printing metal engine parts is now fairly common.

Scoff if you like, but direct manufacturing is already past its infancy, its a toddler now. Two generations from now kids may be asking why anybody would want the same car as anybody else.. after all they can just print one and go..

Alex- enjoy the new toy! 0.015 resolution is quite nice for many things. You will one day fondly remember your first 3D printer the way I fondly remember my first car (or computer).

D

[WoodMarvels.com]

I'm more scared of the car driving down the street as a pedestrian than I am of a guy 3D printing a gun and trying to shoot me with it... much ado about nothing and a publicity grab fueled by media hype.

Aiming a REAL gun and hitting a target at any distance is tough enough... a 3D printed plastic one at that (not 3d metal printed) would be as dangerous for the gun owner as they are trying to shoot. Relax guys, move on. A kitchen knife can do more damage than this... even a ball point pen if you are creative enough. More people die from car accidents on any given day than this gun will ever kill during its lifetime.

Time to put things into perspective don't you think? This shouldn't even be news.

Jon

[adrianm]

The modern media stopped being about news a long time ago. It's all about pushing people's buttons to generate lots of comments on media websites which pushes them up the rankings meaning they can charge for more advertising.

3D printing has the power to massively change the World over the next 50 years but we can rely on the media to take every negative angle they can on it and ignore all the positives.

Design is going to be king and finding ways to maintain copyright and revenue streams from those designs is key to the business of the future.

[gerryv]

Dana, Thanks three times!

1st for reminding me of my youthful excitement in getting the absolute newest thing at the time, a four transistor portable radio - followed by my jealousy a few months later when my sister got the subsequent newest thing, an eight transistor model. :eek:

2nd for putting me onto the potential for metal casting on a budget for prototyping something that I can't use wood for, or a 3D printer for that matter. Big thanks for that one.

3rd for reminding me that there are indeed other people who recognize that we are already well into the biggest paradigm shift since the world industrial revolution began in Britain all those years ago and "there ain't no goin' back Ludites", not that I'm expecting many Ludites on this forum (chuckle).

[WoodMarvels.com]

Design is going to be king and finding ways to maintain copyright and revenue streams from those designs is key to the business of the future.

Considering that's my entire business model... this is a daily concern for me. Like money (unable to scan currency), eventually there will be a DRM system built into 3D machines. I have ongoing discussions regarding issues like this with manufacturers, designers and customers.

Jon