Styrofoam Letters

[andyb]

This is for everyone that wants to or has asked about cutting Styrofoam. I have a customer that wanted me to cut several letters for him in 2" Styrofoam. Here is a test letter that I cut before I started cutting his sheets. The letters came out great and the edges very smooth. I couldn't have been happier.

I used a 1/4" Super-O up-spiral, conventional cut, move speed was 3 ips and the RPMs was 14000.

Andy B.

[blackhawk]

Andy - Do you have the brand and part number of the bit that you used?

[joe]

Good post Andy,

Now the job begins. For interior or exterior use it takes longer to paint or texture than anything else.

It's been a long time since I've made this product. So what's the best hardcoat? I know plain old latex isn't the best.

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com

[twelchPTM]

I don't know anything about these product but in our shop we have a gallon each of styro-prime and styro-coat. I also have seen but not used a product called shell-shock. alot of the surrounds for our water-play area are coated with the shell shock

[twelchPTM]

another thought, rubber dip(aka plasti-dip) can be sprayed and produces a flexible and durable coating on almost any substrate and can be purchased in clear with a pack of tints to create custom colors

[billp]

Thomas,
While Plasti dip might work on a number of materials, their safety sheet makes it appear to be solvent based - http://www.plastidip.com/docs/Plasti%20Dip%2014.5%20oz%20MSDS.pdf ,and that would mean you can't use it on styrofoam (unless you are looking to achieve special effects...)
We've seen some very nice work ( see Terry Jones pix on the Camp blogs from both Houston, and Austin,TX) with the combo of styrofoam, and Durham's rock hard water putty as a top coat- http://www.waterputty.com/ , and for people looking to try styrofoam it would be a great starting point.
Joe will probably chime in soon and give you his opinion on the Styro family of coatings...

[joe]

Bill,

As you know, I'm fond of Durhams Rockhard Putty but it's one downfall is how brittle it is. I would encourage anyone to try it on EPS foam knowing the first hail stone will open up a hole.

The cheapest and best I've found is the concrete texture coating by Sherwin Williams. It only comes in 5gal tubs at $150.00. Any coating for eps foam takes lots of time to apply. That's the expense.

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

[mjindustry]

Any coating for eps foam takes lots of time to apply. That's the expense.


The road that inevitably leads back to HDU for us. Everytime, without fail.

[joe]

That's right. It's sometimes easy to loose money while trying to save it.

I know there's a case to be made for eps and beadboard foam. That's one I haven't been able to make. Here's the point! HDU is cheaper for making letters than beadboard when you figure the coat out time. But even better is 1" PVC. It's toughter than just about anything on the market. At $150. a sheet it's a bargain.

Lets say your making 12" letters. From a 4X8 sheet the cost per letter is approx. $5.00 per letter. Jees, how do you beat that.

Another advantage of PVC is, you can throw one a letters across the room and it won't break. Run over it with your truck, wont break.

There are two down sides. First off it's heavy. Second it doesn't sand well. But it paints well with just about anything. No need to paint if you it white but will accept any kind of coating. Even Latex.

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com

[joe]

There should be a permanent Topic Heading, "Sign Myth Busters."
Here are a few Myths to be exposed


HDU doesn't expand or shrink. It's dimensionally stable.
3D signs are the best way to make lots of money.
Screws are a good attachments with HDU.
Gorilla glue is stronger than most adhesives. I swear on it.
Epoxy works perfect when spraying.
Wood is a second quality exterior sign product. That stuff rots, cracks and won't hold paint!
A vacuum hold-down is essential.
Aluminum routing needs a mister.
You need a 3D program to go into business.
Learning to use a brush isn't profitable or fun. It's agony in the making.

I could go on for ever.

O, I forgot a few,

Home Owner Associations are good business.
There's lots of money to be made in Pin Striping.
Installations are a breeze with Dr. Crumley's Instant Post Holes. Guaranteed!

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com

[andyb]

Brad,
It was an Onsrud 65-025 1/4" Solid Carbide One Flute Upcut Super O Flute. It is a general purpose Super O. I used the same bit today to cut some HDU and Ultraboard. It is a good bit to have.

Joe,
For these letters my customer is just going to paint them with some latex acrylic and put several coats on them. The cut edges are smoother than the surface believe it or not. He is going to sand the surface a little. He just did a tree in styrofoam for a church and he coated it with some trucrete and painted in with the latex acrylic.

My customer is a very creative guy. He and his dad created several of the signs at Dollywood. I'm in awe of some of the signs that he has in his shop that he created then replaced for a new design, new change, etc... Some of the effects that he uses on his signs in amazing.

Andy B.

[andyb]

Wanted to add that these letters are for interior use.

Melissa,
You are right on the HDU. Most of his exterior sign use HDU in one way or another.

Andy B.

[joe]

Photo's of his work would be appreciated.

I'd love to go to Dollywood.

Joe Crumley

[bleeth]

SAY IT ISN'T SO JOE!!:eek:

I thought I could make my fortune using your post holes.

:D:D:D

[joe]

Don't give up DR. There's news abroad about some new Meteor Grinding on their way. My German made Interositor has been idle for months.

This year I hope be making both round Post Holes and the popular square ones too. Hopefully the new Rare Earth grindings with be as powerful as before.

Joe Crumley

[twelchPTM]

I am going to give the plasti-dip a whirl, I hadn't even considered the solvent factor but I have used it on other foam's. I'll let you know how it turns out!

[joe]

Tony,

I looked up the cost on this product and isn't cheap. Can it be painted? How would you apply it to a large order. Or is this all for fun?

Joe Crumley

[andyb]

Joe,
Here is a link to his website that is under construction. He only has a few pictures on it. I'm trying to get him to send me more. I cut all the signs that you see on the website. His dad use to own a Shopbot to do their cutting but his dad recently retired and sold the business and Jeremy opened his own sign business.

http://www.jmillersignstudio.com

Andy B.

[joe]

Andy,

You've done an excellent job in cutting your clients sign parts.

I think you will agree the finished product look like paint by numbers. I'm sure he'll learn more about blending and color transition with time.

Layout looks good.

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com

[twelchPTM]

well I dipped i piece of styrofoam and at first it seemed like it was going to dry before the solvent could distort the piece but when allowed to dry overnight it turned it into a mess. It would look pretty cool if you were shooting for some sort of twisted melted horror movie effect.

I put a few coats of a WB acrylic primer we use here on another piece and will dip it again tonight....

[joe]

Thomas,

Lord have mercy. There are stop signs everywhere about what you're doing.

That stuff has NO UV resistance, Will crack and crumble with time if left outside. Paint won't stick to it but most of all it's Expensive. There might be a use as a paint mask but it's not worth the time to find out.

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com (http://www.normansignco.com)

[twelchPTM]

Joe,are you referring to the rubber-dip? If so I think you may have the wrong impression about the product. We use it to coat mini-cell and micro-cell polyethylene foam props all the time and it has peformed extremely well. Also the latest trend is using it to coat car parts such as rims and bumpers. and at about 50 bucks a gallon I have paints that cost more...

[joe]

You're right. I have no idea what that is. I've wasted lots of good money StyroSpray. That product will never make it's way into general use. It's been on the market for years. Most of us pro's have experienced it.

Look, I'm not trying to discourage innovation. What I'm all about is helping sign builders and sign manufacturers with products that are proven to work. If anyone has a proven good, we want to hear about it. It's not helpful to me or others hearing about what might work.

That's the reason we need a Header of Myth Busters for Signs. Here's another Myth that needs to be exposed. HDU will last longer outdoors than wood.

Joe Crumley
wwwnormansignco.com

[rbraeking]

I made some sets for a local beauty pageant out of urethane foam. They came out nicely but I had trouble gluing them to the plywood substrate. I wound up using mechanical fasteners at the last minute before the show. Any advice on adhesives? I used 3M super 77. Not successfully. It does attack the foam slightly before it flashes off. I tried Weldwood water based contact cement....Yeah right. Warm milk would work just as well.

Also looking for a source of PVC sheet goods. The foam worked well for temporary stage sets but I need a source of permanent outdoor sign material. (Near Houston)

Bob
Sand Dollar Woodworks

[joe]

Bob,

Like you I've also moved to PVC for my letters.

You can glue Bead Board and EPS foam with GE Silicone. There are two versions. You want Silicone 1.

When out on a job, you can apply a few pieces of double stick tape on the backs to hold your letters while the glue sets up.

Joe Crumley

[twelchPTM]

I use total plastics for my plastic sheet goods

[mklafehn]

On the 2" letters, how did you use a Onsrud 65-025 1/4" Solid Carbide One Flute Upcut Super O Flute when it only has a cutting edge length of 7/8"?

[gene]

What is the best way to paint foam that will be outside ?
has anyone tried thermofoil over a cut out letter?

[andyb]

Gene,
Here are the letters that I cut installed. They are painted in automotive paint. The B and G are 48" tall. The yellow letters are 24" tall.

Andy B.

[andyb]

Mike,
You make multiple passes. I did them in 3 passes.

Andy B.

[mklafehn]

Thanks for the info. How did the client (or you) make these letters UV stable for outdoor use? How were they prepped prior to painting?

[andyb]

Mike,
I asked him the same thing and he said it is all in the automotive paint and the clear-coat. He puts on a couple coats of thick paint, sands them smooth then another coat or two then the clear-coat. The automotive paint is very expensive and dries hard. The clear-coat makes the letters shine. The sun never penetrates the paint. He has been doing them this way for years and has never had one to fail.

He painted a sign I cut for a local college for me in automotive paint and it turned out great. We had to match an existing sign. The customer I cut the sign for thought the original sign as a PVC material but after a closer inspection it was HDU with automotive paint. So we match it perfectly. :)

Andy B.

[gc3]

nice work andy!

[andyb]

CORRECTION:
Ok, I wanted to correct the way the letters were painted. I talked to my customer yesterday and the letters are painted with several coats of Latex Acrylic paint not automotive paint. He said that he puts the paint on thick to build it up and its fills in the void areas. Since the paint is thick and encases the foam the UV does not hurt it.

Andy B.