Installing an Ebay spindle.

[kurt_rose]

Well I'm installing a Chinese 2.2 KW spindle today on my Bot. Have it running on the bench and it seems to be running great. I'm debating on installing a pot switch or just buy the card from Shopbot to control the speed. For those of you that have installed the card it it pretty much a plug and play installation? Just figured I'd get some incite from the group so I can make an informed decision. Thanks in advance guys.

[Chuck Keysor]

Hello Kurt. I bought the Shopbot speed controller for my spindle. I was never able to get it to work. I called Shopbot support, and they were helpful, but they were unable to get it to run. So I simply set it aside, and I manually set the speed on my VFD.

I do recall a post where someone else had the exact same situation and same resolution.

Chuck

[Ken Sully]

I added the spindle speed control to my PRS Alpha that I purchased from ShopBot.
Was unable to get it to work even with Tech Support. Ended up sending it back and the factory found the wires on the USB plug were reversed. Got it back and it works great.

[carlcnc]

Kurt
I always recommend a potentiometer,
every VFD I have used has that capability

word of caution ;
I have been involved in or installed 20+ of the chinese spindles, from various sellers. all but one has been just fine
BUT
if you also got the chinese vfd, keep an eye on it .they can cause a lot of issues ,creating "noise" on the AC in your shop
I know of at least 4 that died, one even caught fire...
I recommend Delta,Hitachi,AB, or some other well known brand.

Carl

[jerry_stanek]

my spindle causes interference with my wife's radio She listens to AM. I tried just the VFD but that didn't bother it until I start the spindle.

[kurt_rose]

Hey Carl. As far as a potentiometer. Will a 10 ohm be ok. Do you suggest a certain switch? I have had it running in my bench vice for about 4 hours now and everything is running smooth and cool to the touch at 18000 rpm. The pump that I picked up from the tile store made for a wet saw seems to be really doing it's job. I'm just using RV antifreeze in a sealed Lowes bucket. Anymore input would be really appreciated! Thanks for all the replies.:D

[bob_dodd]

Kirt ; I have a couple of these spindles in use , I installed the recommended pot (10 K ohm) ,it just soldered right into the control board , I like the way it works . I don't know if it is the same as the ones I have , if you need any info , contact me Bob

[bob_dodd]

Kurt This is what I'm using , its a sealed system pump , small radiator mounted right on the Y car , Also made bushing to mount spindle in the porter cable mount

[kurt_rose]

Thanks Bob. I'm using the same inverter. Hope I have the same results. I'll pick up a pot switch tomorrow and give it a shot. Seems fairly straight forward. Thanks for the reply.

[bob_dodd]

Kurt ; I have extras (10 K pot ) I could send you one if you want. PM me your address if you want me to send you one tomorrow morning Bob

[kurt_rose]

Thanks Bob, PM sent

[carlcnc]

Jerry
AM radio is really a good test for any noise that's "floating around"
VFD's are known for causing noise back to the AC line,
the make line reactors to help out, or you could try a heavy duty line filter
does your spindle have a ground wire? be sure that is connected to the earth ground point at the vfd, right with the incoming AC ground.

Some of these cheap vfd's are real noise makers especially above 200hz.
try your spindle at various speeds and see if the radio sounds different.

Carl

[jerry_stanek]

I have the Yaskawa with the HSD spindle from Shopbot. I think I can live with the interference as everything is working.

[bob_dodd]

Kurt you have PM

[gene]

Tell us more on this ebay spindle

[danhamm]

3 years, this month on a aircooled china spindle 3kw bought a a backup because I exspected maybe a year from all the horror stories, it still going strong and I misuse it or use it like a machine shop spindle.
Think I'll sell the backup its still in box it was shipped in..its old stock.

Gene check "KW spindles" ebay.com the backup cost me 177.00 plus shipping...

[gene]

how hard was it to hook up What about a vfd or does it use something different

[danhamm]

You can buy a package spindle and vfd, I'm still running the chinese vfd
I have it close to the cnc so dont have any computer controls of it just the vfd interface which works for me.

[gene]

thats the way mine is . the vfd is mounted by the shopbot control box . all is good with mine so far but if it ever goes bad i will try the ebay one next. I have been thinking about building a small cnc with a ebay spindle on it for small stuff . is the spindle you got air or water cooled?

[bob_dodd]

I purchased 3 spindles with VFD water cooled, been using them for about 5 months now , everything good at this point , I use one on my self built 9" X 48" x 84" (that's all I have room for )using Shopbot 4G control , and another on a stand alone indexer/lathe (Rikon ) . Now most of the things I do 3D and 2D cuts are for 1/12 scale dollhouses and crafts , That being said they are not pushed hard , but they do run 30 hours at a clip at times . I like the water cooled ones as they do not blow dust around , and you can run them at low RPM with no cooling problems , so far they run about 15 - 20 deg above shop temp. , the third is a spare just in case . I made a split wooden bushing to fit the 80 mm spindle into the bot porter cable mount . I mounted the water pump and heat exchanger on the Y car . It came with good docs and lots of info on web . I thought it was easy to hook up (but I have a good understanding of wiring ) if you do not know wiring , GET SOMEONE WHO DOES You can add variable speed control by adding a 10K ohm pot to the display panel Bob

[Brian Harnett]

I just ordered one not much more in cost than a router, great thread I was not aware of spindles being so inexpensive.

[GlenP]

Bob I notice you have a spring mounted on your z motor. Did you do same to the x and y axis? I have been thinking of doing it to my PRS standard to keep pinions tight and reduce backlash when pinions are getting word down slightly. RIght now mine are hard bolted and I adjust when needed.

[bob_dodd]

Glen The motor you see in picture is the Y , but yes all axes are spring loaded , I find it to be a much tighter machine , as I do a lot of very small parts and 3D engravings and require good results

[gene]

That was my thinking. Have a small cnc for 3 d work , this way the shopbot is not tied up for hours at the time

[GlenP]

Cool Bob. Do you mind posting some pics of the x axis springs? I am going to do something similar to mine. I do allot of mdf doors and some of the profiles can have some backlash show up in the corners. It is better after tweaking some values.

[bob_dodd]

Glen ; The X motor set up is like the early PRT , motor mounted onto a angle iron , it pivots on a bolt on one end , and spring with turnbuckle on the other end with just a turn or so after contact with rack gear , which I keep greased

The Y motor is mounted in slotted holes , with studs in motor and washers and lock nuts just tightened enough , with spring and turnbuckle pulling up into rack gear

This may or may not be the right way , but it works , I did this machine build about 4 years ago , changed the pinions once .

The X rack gears are mounted with out double stick tape , and are drilled and tapped every 6" ,( small counter sunk holes next to harden rails ) this assured me the rack gear does not have any up and down , which could cause some play , its as straight as the aluminum extrusion

[coryatjohn]

It would seem to me that any system that uses springs to control backlash would introduce a significant backlash of their own. In order for the spring to be effective, the motor would have to have free movement. That movement would be difficult to dampen out. The current system of a solid mount seems to be a good solution. It's simple, easy to control and has no dynamic elements.

[kurt_rose]

Hey Bob. Thanks for everything. Got her humming right along. Just finished a 4 hour file and everything ran flawlessly. The Pot switch was a breeze to install with the documentation you enclosed. You Da Man!:D

[gc3]

Hey Bob. Thanks for everything. Got her humming right along. Just finished a 4 hour file and everything ran flawlessly. The Pot switch was a breeze to install with the documentation you enclosed. You Da Man!:D

photos!!!!

[bob_dodd]

John , I'm not questioning the design of the current Shopbot, they sell a great cnc for the $$ . I've had 4 Shopbots in the past 12-14 years , they were all good machines . In my post above I said " It may not be the right way , but it works " Its a work around , but I get the results that I need with a 1/32" ball nose bit .

Kurt ; Anytime , if you need any more help with it let me know

Bob

[coryatjohn]

Bob - Has anyone ever developed a test file that would do something like the resolution tests there are for photography? It might be interesting to run a file that uses a V bit (because it ends in a point) and gets progressively more intricate so that we can "read" what the ultimate resolution a particular machine is capable of performing. A test file could be re-run after modifications to the machine to see if there is an improvement. I'd like to perform such a test on my machine.

[bob_dodd]

John ; I have not seen or heard of a test file like that , but someone like Brady , Bill Young , or Ted Hall might be the person to ask .

[danhamm]

A series of parrallel lines with a 1/32 ball nosed bit 1/16 apart very shallow on each axis x and y use no border so the z-axis makes a lift at
one end to check for even set down, on a material that holds good resolution, hardwood,hard plastic, ect.

This is what I did when taking my 2001 prt from then to a prs design
many step motors and gantry designs, a lot of googleing and reading
and sifting info, I went from the original steppers to 296a2a 7.2 to
a belted 3.1 drive gecho's to end result a tunable drive ..leadshine got that info from
(Inwonder) also another big thing in results was the double sided tape for the gear rack on the Y axis the info was use thicker than regular for the shock absorbing value, it works the best is "Brady's Bastard file"
and a bearing truck for the x-rails using a laser dot many feet away
it simply reduces the effort to find lows and highs and a simple white chalk to mark them,
Of course at the begining Level the table before you start any thing.

A laser dot 30 ft. away will raise 3/4 of and inch with a 5 thou piece of
plastic.

[gerryv]

Must be getting slow in my old age :o
I've read this thread and several others that mention the Shopbot speed control and Chinese spindles but still not sure if the Shopbot speed control (which I have on my PRS alpha) does indeed work with the Chinese spindles that look like knockoff's of the HSD. I want to replace my 4HP HSD but don't want to get into installing what I think is called a pot.

[bob_dodd]

Gerry , you do not have to have the pot , you can adjust the speed with up / down arrows on front of the VFD .

[gerryv]

Hi Bob,
Good to hear from you. Hope all is well with you. That's good to know so really appreciate it. I wonder if the Shopbot spindle control board will work too?
Thanks again, I always enjoy your posts and innovation. I may want to be like you when I grow up haha.
Best,
Gerry

[bob_dodd]

Gerry , I have an extra manual , showing wiring schematic & function description of all control terminals , if you want it send me your address by PM . Thanks for the kind words Bob

[gerryv]

Hi Bob,
Thanks much, If you can give me an estimated value and postage costs and I'll get it to you first.
Thanks,
Gerry

[bob_dodd]

Gerry The manual I received as an extra , If you send me your address I'll sent it to you . Bob

[GeneMpls]

Hi Bob- I am about to install a 220v service for the HY spindle/VFD, how
many amp do I need. I have 3phase wiring so this would only be for the
2.2kw spindle and VFD. I have been trying to extract it from the manual with no luck. Thanks Gene

[gerryv]

Hi Gene,
I'm not as rushed as you so why not ask Bob if he could send the manual to you and then you can pass it along to me when you get setup.
Gerry

[kurt_rose]

Hey Gene. I have my spindle wired 220 single phase. Wired it with 12 wire and 20A breakers. With 3ph the book says 8.5A output

[GeneMpls]

I actually got a very good manual with mine- so I am good there. Thanks

Kurt- have you done any heavy duty cutting with it- in other words-
stressed it where it was using a lot of amps. Thanks Gene

[kurt_rose]

Yes Gene. I would say I resemble that remark! I'm not known as a very patient person and do drive my bot hard.:D

[GeneMpls]

Hi Kurt- I just realized that you are the same Kurt on 3D Sign forum-
cool beans, do you have a SBot and do signs? We are a couple hours
from Jason and Mellisa and met them in person a couple weeks ago.
Nice people and very sharing. Mellisa and Jason are going to be instructors
at Prof. Joe's and Gary Beckwith's sign camp. Gene