Plastic shop air supply lines (not pvc or CPVC)

[gundog]

I am thinking of using plastic air lines to plumb my shop. I have the tools to run steel or copper but I have plans later to sheet rock my ceiling, using plastic would allow me to remove the lines easily for the sheet rock job. I am talking about the type lines that use push fittings. I would like to run 3/4" supply lines with 1/2" drops. Have any of you done this?

I am not talking about PVC but air lines designed for this purpose.

Thanks Mike

[bleeth]

Plastic covers a lot of territory, but if you are talking about flexible hose the issue is water building up in the low areas. I would rather run PVC than that, although I can't say I never have. You just need to be aware that it creates it's own issues.

[kubotaman]

Mike I have run PVC for a number of years. It was schedule 40 and I had absolutely no problems. I understand the problem if it broke. I am now faced with doing my present shop and I am leaning towards using copper. Reason is it is easy to intall and it does not rust. The "plastic" tubing you may be thlnking about is not much cheaper than copper so I personally don't see a big advantage. I could be wrong. Please let us know what brand you are thinking about. I would be happy to know what is on the market!!

[gundog]

This is the type stuff I am talking about. http://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/RapidAir-M7500/p7618.html

I have employees and PVC is an OSHA violation for air line material.

[coryatjohn]

Mike I have run PVC for a number of years. It was schedule 40 and I had absolutely no problems. I understand the problem if it broke. I am now faced with doing my present shop and I am leaning towards using copper. Reason is it is easy to intall and it does not rust. The "plastic" tubing you may be thlnking about is not much cheaper than copper so I personally don't see a big advantage. I could be wrong. Please let us know what brand you are thinking about. I would be happy to know what is on the market!!

Gosh. Using Schedule 40 for positive pressure air lines scares the **** out of me!

[kubotaman]

Well John you have never been in a "real" working enviorment!!

[kubotaman]

Thanks Michael, I will look at the website that you posted and see what they have to offer. Appreciated!!

[frank134]

plastic air line are not an osha violation. We have wire a lot of commercial shop and seem them use plastic pipe. as for schedule 40 pipe their are high pressure fitting for it that you can used. The plastic we seem was flexible and used compression fitting. Sorry in don't know where to buy it. I almost look like plex pipe. I used all copper in my shop. But I had a lot of it when I build it. It has work very good for me.

[catbourger]

I installed this in my shop in 2006. It has worked fine. The important thing is to install it carefully, being sure that the cuts are straight. They should sell a cutter for this purpose. I have not made a direct comparison, but I suspect that it is much cheaper than copper, but more expensive than pvc.

[bleeth]

Did a little research here.
Schedule 80 with threaded fittings is rated at over 300psi, however, the geniuses at Osha don't recognize the difference, and as Mike points out, don't allow PVC. They do, however, permit the use of ABS. Haven't compared the difference in cost between copper or ABS, but since I just moved my plant this is a timely issue for me too Mike.

In practice, the only failure I have witnessed in using PVC was when it was run right to the compressor and got too hot. As Daryl points out, it is used in many shops.

The last shop I strung air hose and over time there were definite issues with water build-up, even before the air dryer died. Also, there was a reduction in air-pressure due to multiple fitting restrictions. 110 at the compressor ended up as low as 80 at some ends.

I'm leaning towards ABS-Lots easier to put together than copper!

[mark_stief]

I've been using sch 40 600 psi @73degrees for 15 plus years never had a problem 12" drop at every outlet for water to collect with a drain
DAVE you are right about not hooking it to the air compressor on mine I have an 80 gal. air compressor and then it's pumped to another 80 gal. tank where it cools a little and then a 1/2" hose connects to PVC to insulate from the heat if there is any left by then number two tank is where I get the most water when I drain every week

[waynelocke]

I have used schedule 80 for several years without any issues. Much more expensive than schedule 40 but just as easy to work.

[Brady Watson]

Mike,
There are 2 types of lines you are referring to. One is all plastic, the other is plastic with an aluminum liner. The latter is rated for higher psi and that's the one I would go with. Northern Tool sells both types. The all plastic version is only good to like 120 psi, which would be a deal breaker for me since my Ingersoll will crank out 175 psi.

I would not use sch40 or sch80 for compressed air, unless I was building something small where the total volume is relatively tiny. If you have never seen a roof blown off of a shop from a rusted out compressor tank that exploded, it will make you think twice about anything with a lot of total volume (long lines of pipe = lots of volume).

-B

[coryatjohn]

http://www.osha.gov/dts/hib/hib_data/hib19880520.html

Taken from the above document:

Furthermore, sections 842.32, 842.43 and 849.52(b) of the American National Standards Institute/American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ANSI/ASME) B31.8-1986, Gas Transmission and Distribution Piping Systems Standard, limit the operating pressure of plastic piping distribution systems to 100 pounds per inch (psi) and prohibit the installation of such systems above ground except where ". . . the above ground portion of the plastic service line is completely enclosed in a conduit or casing of sufficient strength to provide protection from external damage and deterioration."

[genek]

use copper and just put 1 inch block of wood under it then you can remove the blocks where you are plastering and slide the plaster board under it.

every drop or curve in the plastic pipe causes a air reductions or restriction.

put clean out or water catches every so often, that you can drain.

[Burkhardt]

Did a little research here.
Schedule 80 with threaded fittings is rated at over 300psi, however, the geniuses at Osha don't recognize the difference, and as Mike points out, don't allow PVC.

The reason they don't allow PVC for air is not the pressure rating. It is the possible embrittlement. When it goes, it explodes and rains sharp edged shrapnel. Does not happen very often, I guess.

ABS does not break in a brittle fashion even when very cold. But I am not sure if even that is officially permitted for air.

[gundog]

I used copper in my last shop and it worked well for me but it is the same cost as the material I posted a link to. The type M copper pipe is not recommended for air and type L on the Home Depot web site is $24 for 10' for 3/4" I can get the Rapid Air system for about the same cost as copper and it seems easier to work with.

I have sweated plenty of copper so I know about working with copper pipe my last shop had over 100' and about 8 drops. Iron pipe would be slightly cheaper but not much and the labor would be way more. I have plenty of shop work to do and it pays much better than threading pipe. I think I am going to go with the Rapid air 3/4" system.

Mike

[bleeth]

I agree with those who have used PVC with success, as I have. It will work, however Mike's point is that it is against Osha rules. That is correct. It is also against the local safety rules in Mike's state, Washington, where WISHA is even more active in inspecting than OSHA. (Don't ask me how I know) If you click on the link John provided and scroll down you will see where the appropriate ABS (Duraplus) is permitted. The fear seems to be less that PVC will explode from too much pressure, as clearly, schedule 80 won't. PVC is, however, brittle and will crack from collision whereby the ABS is impact resistant and suits Codes.

So let's look at the practical side:
Doing it the right way ain't cheap!

ABS Duraplus 3/4" is online at $25.50/10LF(check your local plumbing supply houses) and 3/4 rigid copper (Type L) is also priced around the same (Home depot). Type M is only 13.30 and rated at 300 PSI. Works fine. The 100 foot kit Mike is using is $200.00. So for a safe rated deal that costs the lease go with copper, and for ease of assembly go with the poly kit!

Just to muddy things up: There are other choices. Check out this link:
http://www.rapidairproducts.com/choose.asp

and after reading the page click on the prices tab and you can download price charts that allow you to fill in your needs and get the numbers.

[larry_r]

My experience in the air compressor industry says PVC is a definite no no. Those that have it may count themselves as lucky. As stated in previous posts, PVC can deteriorate over time and fail. I would use nylon with o-ring type fittings. They then can be put together and taken apart very easily.

[tappsman]

Several years ago an electronics repair shop caught fire. The fire spread so fast that the entire shop was engulfed before the fire department arrived and it burned to the ground. As I recall, the fire marshall stated that the reason that the fire spread so quickly was the PVC air lines, which were in the wall. As the pipe melted it acted like a blow torch and spread the fire quickly.

I don't know if this was the reason that the fire spread so quickly or BS but it stuck in my mind as a reason to not use plastic as air line.

[bcondon]

IN the Northeast, the concern of pvc is brittement as Mr. Burkhardt had stated. If the pipe is run in a wall and the temperature drops, just bumping it
could have catastrophic effect.

The other concern is running a sheet rock screw into it will cause shattering.

I like copper the best but make sure you test out your system to old air before installing the sheet rock.

I need to run a 100 foot line to the house so the maxline tubing is looking very viable because of its ease to run

Thanks
Bob